104 replies to this topic

[Kristov Kerensky]

Funny story...

I run a Commando 2D with ECM, 1 medium laser, 2 SRM4 w/2 tons ammo and that is what I hunt other ECM Mechs with. I don't care if they block my sensors, my SRM4s hit just fine and do more damage then 3 SSRM2s. Not to mention that I can actually direct the SRM4s to specific areas on my targets, unlike SSRM2s which tend to go where ever they decide to go.

And if my target happens to try and counter my ECM so they can get their SSRM2s to work..fine with me, they just became a target for my team due to me calling who to focus fire on, I know the LRM users love that. If there are 2 or more of them using ECM and working together, then I lure them into a killbox and let my teammates with direct fire weaponary have some fun.

I also drive a Founder's Atlas without ECM and a D-DC with ECM, neither uses LRM or SSRM, and both are currently set up for destroying Light Mechs. AC20 and SRM6s, wonderful direct fire weapons that quite literally make Commandos, Ravens, and Jenners cease to exist with 1 alpha, usually does the same to Cicadas and it takes 3, sometimes 4, alphas to take out Atlas D-DCs. All using weapons that are, according to so many ECM haters, totally useless in this game because you can't hit with them due to the crappy netcode and amazing lagshields on fast Mechs.

Pssssst...direct fire weapons all work just fine, if you can't hit the target, the problem is with your skills, not the netcode, there's way too many of us who do NOT have problems hitting 140+kph Mechs with ACs and SRMs for the problem to be anything else.

[GraveHuey]

ecm is not the true problem, we are in open Beta we must realize that this means the game is still being developed, and that sometimes some aspects will seem unfair. that being said, it is not an exploit to use ecm as it was developed, nor is it cheating to use ones brain in any situation, we do not have to all brawl, snipe nor mid range, light mecha are considered scouts, mediou and heavy mecha are our mid and close support with some heavy and assault becoming our "slow mo turrets" yes the NARC beacon system was intended to counter ecm, as was BAP, if they do not , tis still beta , the devs will work it out, or not...In the mean time ENJOY the game. Have Fun, it is a GAME not reality. this is intended to be a diversion, not a lifestyle...
~S~
GraveHuey

[Kraven Kor]

Kristov Kerensky, on 10 December 2012 - 12:37 PM, said:

Pssssst...direct fire weapons all work just fine, if you can't hit the target, the problem is with your skills, not the netcode, there's way too many of us who do NOT have problems hitting 140+kph Mechs with ACs and SRMs for the problem to be anything else.

To be fair, yes, I can compensate for lag and so should anyone else (if I can, believe me, you should be able to...)

However, that does not alter the fact that there are indeed hit-detection / net-code related problems that were mitigated for many by using Streaks and LRM's.

I'm all for the ECM mechanics, but there does need to be some amazingly awesome changes in hit detection / net-code, as soon as reasonable possible.

[Prat]

Odins Fist, on 10 December 2012 - 12:34 PM, said:

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First, you didn't fix anything for me, I neither had a problem, "NOR" did I have any misguided interpretations of the reality of the situation... "PERIOD".
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Secondly, I do "NOT" run a D-DC, nor do I use "ECM" or "BAP", and i'm not having any problems leaving those that do in a smoking pile of newb, so I guess either i'm really lucky, or I have adapted my behavior on the battlefield to deal with Mechs that run "ECM"... And as I have success, over & over again, it would seem that "LUCK" is out of the equation...
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I still have a D-DC, but the Atlas I do run "normally" dispatches a D-DC before it can do sufficient damage to my Mech before I can get 2 to 4 more kills... Screenshot December 6th, 2012, as an example...
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No ECM for me... But the other team had it, they just weren't very lucky huh..??

ad 1) "First, you didn't fix anything for me, I neither had a problem, "NOR" did I have any misguided interpretations of the reality of the situation... "PERIOD"." - Yes you did, but that's ok, I don't mind.

ad 2) I run a DDC because it helps my team more than if I didn't.

ad screenie: That's ONE hell of a game. You have proven me wrong with ONE amazing game. Congratulations to you sir. Indeed, logic does not hold a candle to your battle prowess.

[Odins Fist]

Kraven Kor, on 10 December 2012 - 12:41 PM, said:

However, that does not alter the fact that there are indeed hit-detection / net-code related problems that were mitigated for many by using Streaks and LRM's.

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So you're saying people use streaks to hit better than people that "DON'T" use them.... Because of Netcode that affects those of use that do not use Streaks and LRMs..???
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Hold the phone... Streak & LRM Abuse countered be "ECM"..??? HA HA HA HA HA
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CASE CLOSED...!!!

Prat, on 10 December 2012 - 12:44 PM, said:

ad 1) "First, you didn't fix anything for me, I neither had a problem, "NOR" did I have any misguided interpretations of the reality of the situation... "PERIOD"." - Yes you did, but that's ok, I don't mind.

ad 2) I run a DDC because it helps my team more than if I didn't.

ad screenie: That's ONE hell of a game. You have proven me wrong with ONE amazing game. Congratulations to you sir. Indeed, logic does not hold a candle to your battle prowess.

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No I didn't, and still do "NOT" have any misconceptions.... Try again
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I have a "STACK" of screenshots from the past few days.... LOLZ...
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One game huh... ROFL...

Edited by Odins Fist, 10 December 2012 - 12:48 PM.

[Beo Vulf]

Prat, on 10 December 2012 - 11:37 AM, said:

Totally agree. Unfortunately all you'll get is "Learn To Aim" from the tools that now run a COM-2D with 3xSSRM2 ... (or in your case Ravens with 2xSSRM2

If BAP countered ECM at a certain range, that would take away all the gripe I have about ECM.

BAP is supposed to make detecting mechs including ECM equiped mechs easier to detect. ECM (Electronic Counter Messures) is only supposed to hide Electronic radiation, not mask sceismic, or heat. A 30 ton mech running at any speed would and should register sceismically with BAP. The same running Mech due to the heat its engine is giving off would and should be detected by BAP also. BAP due to the threshholds built into it would not detect stationary mechs at long range because they are not giving off enough of a heat signiture to detect heat wise, and if they are not moving they are not impacting the ground to facilitate sceismic detection. So yes ECM is broke, and BAP is broke, along with a host of other broken aspects to this game. THe place to put suggestions, and observations on issues effecting the game is here.
http://mwomercs.com/...35-suggestions/

[Prat]

Beo Vulf, on 10 December 2012 - 12:46 PM, said:

BAP is supposed to make detecting mechs including ECM equiped mechs easier to detect. ECM (Electronic Counter Messures) is only supposed to hide Electronic radiation, not mask sceismic, or heat. A 30 ton mech running at any speed would and should register sceismically with BAP. The same running Mech due to the heat its engine is giving off would and should be detected by BAP also. BAP due to the threshholds built into it would not detect stationary mechs at long range because they are not giving off enough of a heat signiture to detect heat wise, and if they are not moving they are not impacting the ground to facilitate sceismic detection. So yes ECM is broke, and BAP is broke, along with a host of other broken aspects to this game. THe place to put suggestions, and observations on issues effecting the game is here.
http://mwomercs.com/...35-suggestions/

See that works for me. However, at this point I'm just enjoying Odin's company

[Odins Fist]

Prat, on 10 December 2012 - 12:50 PM, said:

See that works for me. However, at this point I'm just enjoying Odin's company

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We're BFFs now..>!!!

[Prat]

^ what he said!

[Suko]

And this is why we needed another ECM thread. To bring peace and harmony to the world.

[Odins Fist]

FRIEND UP EVERYONE,... No, seriously friend up, I have a TeamSpeak server with dedicated MechWarrior channels, and i'm looking for 20 more good pilots so we can have rotating 8 mans in the future..!! On a side note, the Website is due for a major overhaul due to the expansion of my organization into a multi gaming group..
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http://www.teamakc.net/news.php register on the site, so you can post and what not, and also the TS info is on the front page

Edited by Odins Fist, 10 December 2012 - 01:18 PM.

[Prat]

^ that's just a shameless plug right there!

I'm in a company I quite enjoy already, but I'll happily meet you on the battlefield. Good hunting!

[Odins Fist]

Prat, on 10 December 2012 - 01:05 PM, said:

^ that's just a shameless plug right there!

I'm in a company I quite enjoy already, but I'll happily meet you on the battlefield. Good hunting!

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Shameless Plug..??? WHAT..?? If you want to see a shameless plug that can be done...
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I thought it would be a good thing to try and foster good Sportsmanship in MWO..
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Dang, I just can't win with trying to be a peacemaker huh...

[Taryys]

I think I have the win on shameless plugs on this forum.


[Guide] Playing with Friends, Groups, and Teams

[Nightcrept]

We all know ecm is op if a proper counter isn't brought into the game.

The poll we had about ecm showed that the the majority of players agreed so don't fret guys something will be done to balance out ecm.

Original poster don't fret about people disagreeing with you because if you break down their argument in support of ecm it is more about their dislike of Lrms and ssrms then it is about balance.

[Jakob Knight]

Prat, on 10 December 2012 - 11:55 AM, said:

See that's just it, I love the IDEA of ECM and sneaking around, longer Lock times and disabling lock at long range, but the disrupt bit is bit much since it can't be countered by anything else other than the SAME amount of ECM. BAP working (still with longer lock time would almost force the 360 lock module too since weapon lock would be paramount), 1 Counter ECM against any on Disrupt would encourage teamwork but not to the extreme (as it is now).

I'm sure people will come up with even better ideas to make ECM more fun for EVERYONE, not just people with it.

I don't think anyone is calling for the removal of ECM. Reasonable players know it has it's place. The problem is that it needs to be changed so it isn't locking out two weapons in the game and eliminating one of the core Roles promised in the stated concept of the game.

Odins Fist, on 10 December 2012 - 11:54 AM, said:

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I don't pilot "PATHETIC" Streak Cats, or LRM boats.... There I said it first, how you like them apples..?? I didn't play easy mode before "ECM", and I don't try to do it now...

<snip>
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Translation: I couldn't adapt if I ran those mechs and know it. So, I'll avoid admitting I was wrong saying it was about adaption and fill the thread with bluster to cover for me.

Thank you for clarifying your veracity as someone to be listened to.

I think we're done here.

[Little Nemo]

To the OP, this was most likely. my group. We were running four Ravens, not exploiting a thing. We were simply running to base and capping. So, that left four of our teammates to fend for themselves. It would have been simple to defend the base, or take your whole team to our base.

It's not like we were running around in streak cats.

[Insidious Johnson]

I don't see this as abuse. The datamining they seem to do throws extremities in our face more often than it gives us something familiar. I see it as natural and expected behaviour, so do the devs most likely. Why would I say that? They threw out something not in its final form to see how it works for the community. It'll get refined for sure (buff/nerf) and won't end up as it is now. Haven't you seen this pattern yet with the released patches?

[Lykaon]

ShadowVFX, on 10 December 2012 - 11:25 AM, said:

Alright, I find it difficult to call this an "exploit", but it certainly is a abusing the ECM system. 3 times last night I encountered the same 4 man team where each member one was running an ECM Raven equipped with SSRMs and med or large lasers. They would all scout along the perimeter to capture the base in each game. 4 mechs on base means it can drop the base to 0 health in ~30 seconds without contest. And they can skirt around most maps undetected thanks to their speed and ECM making it impossible to target them unless it is visual.

In all three games, a friend and I both went to stop them at our base, but there was little we could do. With ECM blocking our chat, we couldn't tell our PUG team what was happening and we couldn't use anything but direct-fire weapons due to ECM jamming. They were running all around us like a bunch of rabid shrews. Combine all this with the lag shield most fast mechs get and we both got taken out within seconds from their combined SSRM and laser barrages.

I know what's going to happen: Some are going to harp about how terrible of a player my friend and I are and how easy it is to counter a situation like this. To that, all I can say is that I hope you face this group under these circumstances for yourself. YOU-WILL-DIE. Unless you're group is also running 4 ECM mechs to counter their 4 ECM mechs, you will be at a huge disadvantage.

I think that scenarios like this illustrate the need for a better rock, paper, scissors mechanic regarding ECM, BAP, and TAG. Right now, ECM beats ECM, TAG is pathetic, and BAP doesn't do anything at all against ECM. They need these three pieces of equipment to counter each other in different ways to keep the game asymmetrically balanced. As it is presently, there's no real way to beat a group like this unless you are fortunate to have the majority of your team there to fight them off with sheer firepower/numbers, or you also have 4 anti-ECM mechs.

I would not call you or your friend terrible players or even try to convince you that this tactic is easy to counter within pug drops.

The reason this tactic is used at all is it is very difficult to counter and yeilds very high payouts.You will cap win a game in under 5 mins and if done perfectly you have zero exspences.

I am guilty of c-bill grinding with this sort of mech.I do not feel all that bad about it either.At least when my lance wins by ECM base cap we win it for 4-6 pug players as well.That is until we get bored with capping and decide to fight it out.

I just finished a round of c-bill farming with 2-4 players in a premade and made over 3.5 mil in a couple of hours.We played more games than I recal maybe 20ish and won all but 2 of them.Average payout with prem. acount was around 180k c-bills per match.

One solid counter to this strategy is base camping defence.It's not exciting or glamorous but it is a solid defence from the E-war light mech swarm.

Plan B is only recommended if you have some friends to group with and this would be the counter E-war light hunter killer squad of tripple streak 2 commandos with ECM.Most E-war lances will include ravens that mount 2 streak 2 launchers and ecm. If you run 3 streak 2 launchers per mech you outgun them.

Edited by Lykaon, 10 December 2012 - 02:09 PM.

[HammerForge]

Really, 2 of you got owned by 4, you don't say....that is so....what I would expect

Yes, ECM seems OP right now, but I think if the net code gets fixed, ECM is no longer OP. If you think you can walk into a battle as a one trick LRM or SSRM pony, you deserve what you get when ECM kicks you in the nuts. If you are having problems because of lag shield or bad hit boxes, lets not nerf ECM to fix that issue.