104 replies to this topic

[Odins Fist]

Jakob Knight, on 10 December 2012 - 01:20 PM, said:

Translation: I couldn't adapt if I ran those mechs and know it. So, I'll avoid admitting I was wrong saying it was about adaption and fill the thread with bluster to cover for me.

Thank you for clarifying your veracity as someone to be listened to.

I think we're done here.

.
You are 100% wrong, I could run them, but I don't... It would only a very small amount of time to learn how to pilot around thier "PERCEIVED" defenselessness against "ECM"..
.
There, we're done now...

[Suko]

HammerForge, on 10 December 2012 - 02:16 PM, said:

Really, 2 of you got owned by 4, you don't say....that is so....what I would expect

Yes, ECM seems OP right now, but I think if the net code gets fixed, ECM is no longer OP. If you think you can walk into a battle as a one trick LRM or SSRM pony, you deserve what you get when ECM kicks you in the nuts. If you are having problems because of lag shield or bad hit boxes, lets not nerf ECM to fix that issue.

Where do you get the notion I was an LRM/SRM build? I was a 4x Large Laser Phract and my buddy was an anti-ECM light hunter Raven. However, with 4ECM jammers and only 1 ECM on our side, we couldn't get LRM fire support from the pugs, or really do much of anything. Just 'cause others are mentioning LRM/SRM does not mean it was something I was complaining about.

The point of writing this story was to show how cheesey this tactic is. It's currently the Zerg Rush of MWO. I know that it WILL get fixed eventually, but unless us players voice our findings, it might take much, much longer. I am simply sharing my story in the hopes that the devs see it and consider possible alternatives that will lead to a more interesting match and not more of....this.

Edited by ShadowVFX, 10 December 2012 - 03:14 PM.

[Odins Fist]

Can't we all just get along, and agree to disagree on some points..??
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I want "FRIENDS" not people team shooting me for forum posts... Yes it happens...

[NateTheRipper]

Its called tactics and they had a plan and the ability to do it. I personally dont own a mech with ecm, is it a pain yes but most likely they were a group of friends and not a pug. Only thing you can do is improvise, adapt and overcome this tactic find a group of friends set up your mechs to counter ECM groups. Heck if your affraid of ECM cap tactics maybe you should set up at your base and counter them at their own game.

[HammerForge]

ShadowVFX, on 10 December 2012 - 03:13 PM, said:

Where do you get the notion I was an LRM/SRM build? I was a 4x Large Laser Phract and my buddy was an anti-ECM light hunter Raven. However, with 4ECM jammers and only 1 ECM on our side, we couldn't get LRM fire support from the pugs, or really do much of anything. Just 'cause others are mentioning LRM/SRM does not mean it was something I was complaining about.

The point of writing this story was to show how cheesey this tactic is. It's currently the Zerg Rush of MWO. I know that it WILL get fixed eventually, but unless us players voice our findings, it might take much, much longer. I am simply sharing my story in the hopes that the devs see it and consider possible alternatives that will lead to a more interesting match and not more of....this.

Sorry if what I said sounded like you were a one trick pony, you are not, you said so in your original post and obviously I worded that poorly enough that it came off that I was saying that about you. You are having lag shield/net code issues, which is a completely different issue, and I don't quite comprehend the rage on ECM other than possibly that the ECM nerfs the one weapon that doesn't suffer from the net code issue. Still remains that we should not nerf ECM because of an issue not ECM related.

I was more perturbed by all the other people that say we need to nerf ECM because their SSRMs and LRMs no longer work. This is what ECM was supposed to do, and if someone brings up cannon, tough, because SSRMs and LRMs don't work according to cannon either, so that is not a valid arguement. Before ECM people got away with boating only SSRMs and LRMs, ECM was made to nerf that exact tactic, so I don't feel sorry for the one trick ponies that can no longer use their one trick, they need to learn another. Sort of like your illustration of the zerg rush, once it got nerfed, people needed to adapt.

[Codejack]

HammerForge, on 10 December 2012 - 06:54 PM, said:

I was more perturbed by all the other people that say we need to nerf ECM because their SSRMs and LRMs no longer work. This is what ECM was supposed to do, and if someone brings up cannon, tough, because SSRMs and LRMs don't work according to cannon either, so that is not a valid arguement. Before ECM people got away with boating only SSRMs and LRMs, ECM was made to nerf that exact tactic, so I don't feel sorry for the one trick ponies that can no longer use their one trick, they need to learn another. Sort of like your illustration of the zerg rush, once it got nerfed, people needed to adapt.

You never heard anyone in a PUG look around and say, "Uh-oh, we don't have any streakcats, might as well power down now."

[Zylo]

This only works currently due to lack of collisions.

Groups of Jenners with cap modules did base cap rushes before ECM, players still complained about it and asked for base capping to be removed.

Once collisions return all you have to do is trip the light mechs and blast them while they are face down on the ground. That's what was done to light mechs during closed beta when collsisions were still in game.

[HammerForge]

Codejack, on 10 December 2012 - 07:03 PM, said:

You never heard anyone in a PUG look around and say, "Uh-oh, we don't have any streakcats, might as well power down now."

If people are doing that to you in a game Codejack, for any reason, you should be reporting them. If they don't want to play, and don't want to try, they should be removed from the game. That is the same as the AFKers, Team Killers and Suiciders.

[byteu2]

HammerForge, on 10 December 2012 - 07:11 PM, said:

If people are doing that to you in a game Codejack, for any reason, you should be reporting them. If they don't want to play, and don't want to try, they should be removed from the game. That is the same as the AFKers, Team Killers and Suiciders.

There's no way PGI would boot players who refuse to play the game because they don't like ECM. That's shooting themselves in the foot. It would also show just how much people perceive ECM as being mandatory, given how ECM currently functions.

[Fate 6]

ShadowVFX, on 10 December 2012 - 11:35 AM, said:

I could swear I read in a post that this was going to be part of ECM. It seems you're right. Still, trying to explain that there are 4 ravens @ base with ECM and SSRM isn't too easy when you are fighting for your life against the 4 rabid shrews.

I think it said that in the original post, as that is what I have been thinking as well.

[Insidious Johnson]

HammerForge, on 10 December 2012 - 07:11 PM, said:

If people are doing that to you in a game Codejack, for any reason, you should be reporting them. If they don't want to play, and don't want to try, they should be removed from the game. That is the same as the AFKers, Team Killers and Suiciders.

.... or make them forum mods!

[Codejack]

HammerForge, on 10 December 2012 - 07:11 PM, said:

If people are doing that to you in a game Codejack, for any reason, you should be reporting them. If they don't want to play, and don't want to try, they should be removed from the game. That is the same as the AFKers, Team Killers and Suiciders.

That's kind of a heavy-handed response, isn't it? I mean, I understand reporting team killers; that's just common sense. AFKers, well, I've gotten a black screen at the beginning and thought that it was loading for a while until I start getting shot. As for suicide farming, the problem there is the reward system.

These are symptoms, not the problems that cause them.

[HammerForge]

byteu2, on 10 December 2012 - 07:25 PM, said:

There's no way PGI would boot players who refuse to play the game because they don't like ECM. That's shooting themselves in the foot. It would also show just how much people perceive ECM as being mandatory, given how ECM currently functions.

You don't think if a few players were ruining the experience for many others that PGI would do something about it? I say a few because most people who get warned for an action, modify their behavior. So lets ask the question in a different way, which is shooting themselves in the foot more, allowing a few to ruin the experience for many, or placing sanctions or deterrents in place for bad behavior?

[byteu2]

HammerForge, on 10 December 2012 - 07:51 PM, said:

You don't think if a few players were ruining the experience for many others that PGI would do something about it? I say a few because most people who get warned for an action, modify their behavior. So lets ask the question in a different way, which is shooting themselves in the foot more, allowing a few to ruin the experience for many, or placing sanctions or deterrents in place for bad behavior?

I don't think PGI will do something about it. Especially over inactivity. They let suicide farmers run rampant. They take forever to deal with team killers. And now they've got a system in ECM that the community is very divided over. PGI needs to learn to introduce balanced systems. They seriously need to overhaul their internal QA. There is no reason for ECM to function the way it does. It's rediculous for its tonnage and cost. It would be a waste of time for them to ban people who hate ECM. It'd be better to fix ECM. PGI already has too much negative press. They don't need more because they banned players who were inactive over a system they see as mandatory to have in a drop.

[Codejack]

HammerForge, on 10 December 2012 - 07:51 PM, said:

You don't think if a few players were ruining the experience for many others that PGI would do something about it? I say a few because most people who get warned for an action, modify their behavior. So lets ask the question in a different way, which is shooting themselves in the foot more, allowing a few to ruin the experience for many, or placing sanctions or deterrents in place for bad behavior?

Why not just encourage good behavior?

[Rex Budman]

Codejack, on 10 December 2012 - 11:28 AM, said:

Yep. Now imagine an 8 man of ECM Commandos, each with 3xSSRM2.

I came across this sop many times. It angers me severely as it just shows that if you give people an inch, they will take a mile.

clear abuse of the Lag-shield and ECM systems. All the while equipped with SSRM. The same half build they were spewing about back then SSRM-Cats were the be all and end all of Commandos.

[MWHawke]

HammerForge, on 10 December 2012 - 06:54 PM, said:

This is what ECM was supposed to do, and if someone brings up cannon, tough, because SSRMs and LRMs don't work according to cannon either, so that is not a valid arguement.

This is the sad sad fact..

[HammerForge]

Codejack, on 10 December 2012 - 08:03 PM, said:

Why not just encourage good behavior?

You are right, really you need both, you need to encourage the good behaviors, and have deterrents for the bad ones, but right now it seem the the developers are busy, so we aren't going to get a major top down economy restructure. Higher bonuses for actions in the game, and lowering the default winnings for those who just show up. You are always going to have those who are going to ignore that and be childism having the "if you don't play my way, I'm going home" attitude such as your example of the person who left since they were going to lose without ECM, and there needs to be a penalty for that behavior. Until they get to the finality of MM though, I would hesitate to make the changes to the economy. Why? You don't want new/inexperienced players to have an even harder time with the grind by lowering what they get as they are learning the game. Because of the state of the game at this moment, it is difficult to build in those encouragements, so the only thing left is the deterrents. Until the MM is done, and the weapons are balanced to each other, and the net code is fixed, they aren't going to look at the economy. They just don't have enough resources to look at those 3 major items and take on yet another overhaul.

[Jakob Knight]

HammerForge, on 10 December 2012 - 06:54 PM, said:

I was more perturbed by all the other people that say we need to nerf ECM because their SSRMs and LRMs no longer work. This is what ECM was supposed to do, and if someone brings up cannon, tough, because SSRMs and LRMs don't work according to cannon either, so that is not a valid arguement. Before ECM people got away with boating only SSRMs and LRMs, ECM was made to nerf that exact tactic, so I don't feel sorry for the one trick ponies that can no longer use their one trick, they need to learn another. Sort of like your illustration of the zerg rush, once it got nerfed, people needed to adapt.

This is an example of how those who are defending ECM simply don't know what they are talking about. Besides the fact that there is no reason to bring up 18th century support weaponry, in canon, Guardian ECM does not stop Streaks from working, and no ECM system prevents an enemy from locking onto a target or the use of standard LRMs in the slightest.

And, I find it interesting that the people screaming 'adapt' (who have already proven they can't earlier in this thread) are the same ones who cried a river that they couldn't cope with LRMs, even with thread after thread proving that all they had to do was take one of many counteractions to do so.

No, the people who are defending ECM are simply children who don't want their new candy taken away. And nothing else.

[Kraven Kor]

I actually win most matches where we have an AFK or disconnect, and doubt those players would be much help even if they were present and playing.

I don't see the point in reporting them. I don't agree with players that do this, but I can't force them to play the game "right."