104 replies to this topic

[Taryys]

This is an interesting compromise... some I need to ponder.

Rofl, on 10 December 2012 - 11:43 AM, said:

I know it's all about checks and balances, but 1 ECM really should be able to counter ALL ECM's within it's counter range. The benefit of multiple ECMs should be to spread it out and cover more area, not blanket and cripple another ECM mech. It's (in my humble opinion) poor game design when the only way to counter something is to bring more of it. That's not a checks and balances system, it's an arms race.

[Jakob Knight]

Odins Fist, on 10 December 2012 - 11:37 AM, said:

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"ANYONE" that has a hard time, and "CAN'T" deal with "ECM", needs to toatlly rethink their approach to playing a match.
With new technology, adaptation is the key to survival, if you continue with 2 dimensional thinking you will not win..
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I have "ABSOLUTELY" no problems fighting against teams tha run "ECM", and I do "NOT" run "ECM" myself..
Sorry, but you're going to have to "LEARN" to adapt your strategies, you won't be able to play like you have been..

So, I'd like to see you play a StreakCAT in a PUG with zero help and zero ECM of your own, and see how you 'deal' with it, since it is entirely a matter of player skill. Or even an LRM unit. A pilot can only work with the tools they are given, and putting it all on the pilot is a cop-out.

And before you say 'don't run Streaks' or 'don't run LRMs', I'll remind you that they are weapons in the game, and therefore such advice is just as invalid as having people tell direct fire weapons to just not use them when the yelling was about LRM boats.

[Codejack]

Tacophagist, on 10 December 2012 - 11:34 AM, said:

Why did you bring SSRM's to hunt mechs that are set up specifically to counter them? Use SRM4's or SRM6's.

Because they are usually fast light that are about impossible to hit with direct-fire weapons, of which SRMs are the worst, and against 1 ECM opponent, you can counter and get lock.

Prat, on 10 December 2012 - 11:37 AM, said:

Totally agree. Unfortunately all you'll get is "Learn To Aim" from the tools that now run a COM-2D with 3xSSRM2 ... (or in your case Ravens with 2xSSRM2

I run a Halfcat (3 streak ECM Commando), and I think that it is unbalanced.

Prat, on 10 December 2012 - 11:37 AM, said:

If BAP countered ECM at a certain range, that would take away all the gripe I have about ECM.

I still think it would be OP, but that would help.

[TruePoindexter]

Codejack, on 10 December 2012 - 11:48 AM, said:

Because they are usually fast light that are about impossible to hit with direct-fire weapons, of which SRMs are the worst, and against 1 ECM opponent, you can counter and get lock.

They are very possible to hit with direct fire weapons.... No it's not easy but you can do it.

[Vassago Rain]

Codejack, on 10 December 2012 - 11:28 AM, said:

Yep. Now imagine an 8 man of ECM Commandos, each with 3xSSRM2.

Been there, gotten ruined, but it was only 6 commandos.

[Odins Fist]

Jakob Knight, on 10 December 2012 - 11:47 AM, said:

So, I'd like to see you play a StreakCAT in a PUG with zero help and zero ECM of your own, and see how you 'deal' with it, since it is entirely a matter of player skill. Or even an LRM unit. A pilot can only work with the tools they are given, and putting it all on the pilot is a cop-out.

And before you say 'don't run Streaks' or 'don't run LRMs', I'll remind you that they are weapons in the game, and therefore such advice is just as invalid as having people tell direct fire weapons to just not use them when the yelling was about LRM boats.

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I don't pilot "PATHETIC" Streak Cats, or LRM boats.... There I said it first, how you like them apples..?? I didn't play easy mode before "ECM", and I don't try to do it now...
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Sorry about "YOUR" bad luck.... If adapting to survive a match means you have to pilot something other than a crumby Streak Cat & LRM boats, or have to change "YOUR" 2 dimensionla thinking, then I guess it's something "YOU'RE" going to have to do..
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YUP, and I also "DO NOT" run BAP or ECM, or LRMs on "ANY" Mech I pilot... Get a clue
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EDIT: BTW, ... The LRM hotfix was the BEST thing to balance "EASY MODE" back into the "SUPPORT" mode like LRMs are "SUPPOSED" to be... I bet you were a missile boat captain when "Artemis" first appeared, and didn't want the LRM hotfix... Turn-about's fair play huh...??

DOUBLE EDIT: I did run a Missle boated (one night), in a D-DC when Atemis first appeared, to see exactly how "EASY" mode it was, and I was really shocked at how cheap and easy it was before it was put back into support mode by the hotfix..

Edited by Odins Fist, 10 December 2012 - 12:06 PM.

[soarra]

did we need a new ECM thread?

[Prat]

See that's just it, I love the IDEA of ECM and sneaking around, longer Lock times and disabling lock at long range, but the disrupt bit is bit much since it can't be countered by anything else other than the SAME amount of ECM. BAP working (still with longer lock time would almost force the 360 lock module too since weapon lock would be paramount), 1 Counter ECM against any on Disrupt would encourage teamwork but not to the extreme (as it is now).

I'm sure people will come up with even better ideas to make ECM more fun for EVERYONE, not just people with it.

[Bguk]

soarra, on 10 December 2012 - 11:54 AM, said:

did we need a new ECM thread?

I feel the same way every time I see one. They all need to be merged, no matter how hard the posted tries to make it look like it's not about ECM.

[PropagandaWar]

Every Pug match i played my Cicada in I scouted and texted back findings. Did this even with a few friends as well. Even though sometimes it looks like "Firelz Linet in der Cty". Anywho. Lately pugging has been way more responsive. Sorry if Bravo looks like Broto but whadda you expect when Im dodging fire and typing. ECM's are annoying only if you let them be.

[Kraven Kor]

Jakob Knight, on 10 December 2012 - 11:47 AM, said:

So, I'd like to see you play a StreakCAT in a PUG with zero help and zero ECM of your own, and see how you 'deal' with it, since it is entirely a matter of player skill. Or even an LRM unit. A pilot can only work with the tools they are given, and putting it all on the pilot is a cop-out.

And before you say 'don't run Streaks' or 'don't run LRMs', I'll remind you that they are weapons in the game, and therefore such advice is just as invalid as having people tell direct fire weapons to just not use them when the yelling was about LRM boats.

For now, and this may change, Streaks and LRM's all but require teamwork.

So no, right now, I would simply not run Streaks or LRM's when pugging, and I do not run such when PUGging right now, and I do just fine (about 50/50 win/loss ratio and a bit lower on kill/death ratio.)

[Rofl]

Jakob Knight, on 10 December 2012 - 11:47 AM, said:

So, I'd like to see you play a StreakCAT in a PUG with zero help and zero ECM of your own, and see how you 'deal' with it, since it is entirely a matter of player skill. Or even an LRM unit. A pilot can only work with the tools they are given, and putting it all on the pilot is a cop-out.

And before you say 'don't run Streaks' or 'don't run LRMs', I'll remind you that they are weapons in the game, and therefore such advice is just as invalid as having people tell direct fire weapons to just not use them when the yelling was about LRM boats.

Good response. I made a mockup post about PPCs yet to be disclosed new mechanic, saying it should completely disable energy weapons for a moderate amount of time once hit. Sadly, people actually thought it was a good idea. "Locking out" an entire section of the armory is not a very fun or balanced mechanic, especially with how easy it is. Streaks are a mainstay of anti-light mechs, but it's rare you see a non ECM light these days. I put it more on the newness factor of ECM, but I'm not sure Jenners will be able to compete with ECM Ravens. I know I for one have wrecked a jenners day as my ECM Raven, it's almost too easy

ECM completely locking out lrms and streaks reminds me of another game I used to play, WoW. Back in alpha and early vanilla, a rogue could use an ability called 'sap' to incapacitate an enemy for 45 seconds. The ability itself had a shorter cooldown, with no diminishing returns, so you could lock 'em down forever and grief people. The devs patched in diminishing returns to abilities which made the player lose control of their avatar (sap, all stuns, sleeps, mind control, fears anything and everything that made it where you couldn't control your character was essentially nerfed). Even though it was built into the game at launch, the devs themselves conceded it was imbalanced and open to exploitation. I think ECM will eventually see a similar investigation, we just need to suffer through it's 15 minutes of fame for the time being.

[Dax Frey]

@ShadowVFX

That might have been my group.

we were farming credits in a legit manner. which is to run into base, cap it...shoot any defenders and pick up our paychecks. I see nothing wrong with that. and we broke no rules nor abused any mechanic.

wolf packing anything fast is equally good. ECM just keeps the streakboats off our backs.

Edited by Dax Frey, 10 December 2012 - 12:00 PM.

[Prat]

Odins Fist, on 10 December 2012 - 11:54 AM, said:

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I don't pilot "PATHETIC" Streak Cats, or LRM boats kid.... There I said it first, how you like them apples..?? I didn't play easy mode before "ECM", and I don't try to do it now...
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Sorry about "YOUR" bad luck.... If adapting to survive a match means you have to pilot something other than a crumby Streak Cat & LRM boats, or have to change "YOUR" 2 dimensionla thinking, then I guess it's something "YOU'RE" going to have to do..
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YUP, and I also "DO NOT" run BAP or ECM, or LRMs... Get a clue

lol... so the mech is there for show only? Yes they were absolutely OP but to neuter them completely is ... dumb.

We might as well just say that SSRM can only be mounted on mechs with ECM. Everyone else, L2Aim

[IceCase88]

Can someone please condense all the ECM whining into a single thread or create a whole subtopic under the general discussion for people to go whine about the ECM? It is hard to find other threads when soooooo many of these ECM whining threads pop up in a day. We get it... you don't like the ECM. You long for the days of open LRM boating and free SSRMs. We get it. Problem is that is like fighting in WW2. We are fighting in the modern era. ECMs and even internet hacking are all apart of modern conventional war. Team movements always win over lone wolf players. The more organized, and disciplined, side wins most of the time.

[Suko]

Rofl, on 10 December 2012 - 11:43 AM, said:

It's (in my humble opinion) poor game design when the only way to counter something is to bring more of it. That's not a checks and balances system, it's an arms race.

This.

[Kremator1968]

So you run into the same team THREE times and you haven't come up with a strategy after the first one ? Shame on you.

As for ECM shielding people ... IT DOES THAT ! L2P please OP, or would you like some cheese with your whine ?

[Bguk]

I just can't wait for Stalkers to come in so we're talking about something different at least.

[Rofl]

Ah, ha! I've got it! I know what PPCs new mechanic should be! Disabling electronics. BAP, ECM, Tag, etc. Since it requires "skill" as a direct fire weapon, let's arbitrarily say it disables electronics for 1 minute. All the ECM dependant builds (my raven included) will just have to Learn2Play, right?

[Odins Fist]

Prat, on 10 December 2012 - 11:59 AM, said:

lol... so the mech is there for show only? Yes they were absolutely OP but to neuter them completely is ... dumb.

We might as well just say that SSRM can only be mounted on mechs with ECM. Everyone else, L2Aim

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Adapt...
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BTW, Streaks and LRMs are not useless, I see "GOOD" pilots still use them with great success.

Edited by Odins Fist, 10 December 2012 - 12:08 PM.