284 replies to this topic

[Riptor]

Quote

you cant RP, fine, dont, leave the RP to those of us, who, ya know, enjoy it.

I dont RP because this is not an RP thread. How about you leave your RP outside the serious discussions and keep it to threads that are actually meant to be RPed in?

This dick waving contest going on is also a reason why people dislike clanners.

But it still amuses me that the "trueborn" "bred to be a warrior" and the only true "honourable" clanners speak of such things as "ring of equals" when they bring a machinegun to a knife fight.

Or how they speak about them being better when one of their clans comitted mass murder.

The clans arent better then the IS... they are just a different culture. And it would be fine with me if i could turn around a corner without a clanner waving his junk in my face and harping on about how much better he is then me for the simple fact that he was bred in a tube and had no mommy to cuddle him when he was little.

Just look at their politics... the only reason they havent wiped each other out was that almost twilight level fanboyish dream of claiming terra and then somehow being the sole ruler of humankind.

If they had reached their goal you can bet your shiny omnimechs they would have done exactly the same as the great houses. Dont believe me? Well how about you ask the Wolverines or Widowmakers. Whoops.. to bad.. they where anihilated.

But then they never achieved their goals because they where to stupid and arrogant to realize the real meaning of war. (the canon clanners.. not calling any clan players stupid here)

Any military strategist would have eaten his own uniform at the VERY BASIC STRATEGIC FAILURES the clans committed on Tukayid. Sure lets charge down this narrow canyon... its a brilliant idea doing that even thought we know the enemy is waiting to ambush us.... or lets drop down without any logistic backup with ammo heavy loadouts... surely no one can question the brilliance of running out of ammo in the middle of a war?

Romanticizing war is not going to make you better at it let me tell you.

The clans see war as a sport.. and that was their undoing.. there is nothing great about war and its never honourable killing people.

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Them using weapons on masss destruction kinda proved them right to be annihilated, quiaff?

I am sure all those women and children deserved what they got because their military used weapons of mass destruction...

Damn those dirty children for using atom bombs....

Edited by Riptor, 25 May 2012 - 12:20 AM.

[Aethon]

DireWolf307, on 25 May 2012 - 12:11 AM, said:

Well at least they had the Hunchback Coffeemaker and Walking Trashcan Urbanmech to get them through.

Now I want to get a Hunchback with "Mr. Coffee" painted on its chest, with "Good to the last *BLAM*" painted on the side of its AC/20.

[DireWolf307]

Rejarial Galatan, on 25 May 2012 - 12:15 AM, said:

as i am loyal to the DCMS until I can become a clanner, how should I take that? lol

OK, so that means you need to commit a genocide to stop a Liao genocide or something to that effect.

[FoxiestFox]

Rejarial Galatan, on 25 May 2012 - 12:15 AM, said:

To the freeborn that you are, it is a paradox. We strive to be the best warriors we can, and despise the old, and look down upon them with disdain for NOT finding death in combat. The old are beyond use, they are frail and infirm. They are to be pitied.


as i am loyal to the DCMS until I can become a clanner, how should I take that? lol

You weren't there to commit that massacre I hope. If so, I'd gladly face you in whatever trial it is would be suitable for the vengeance of 52 million dead.

[Rejarial Galatan]

DireWolf307, on 25 May 2012 - 12:17 AM, said:

OK, so that means you need to commit a genocide to stop a Liao genocide or something to that effect.

how about i kill all factions but Kurita and wait for the clan option to come, then kill off kurita?

seriously tho: We use some of our older warriors who are not yet Solahma to train our sibkos.

[Evgeny Bear]

Nasty9, on 24 May 2012 - 10:23 PM, said:

Clan culture is quite anti-human in its structure and its function.

Haha what a different view.
At least Clanners do not lie to themselves with an Illusion of beeing "civilized" like the houses, aswell as they abolished a totalitarian and tyrannic regime of some Family Cliques together with their Generals who rose up in rank by "connections".

A Clanner is a true free person, everyone can become a Warrior and reach something he might dream for, or fail in its attempt to seize his goal. It is the only honorable life and social structure in and around the Sphere, limited only by personal skill and bravery and not by Brithname and the connection of your parents. They fight and die for a greater cause and their personal might, free and open. They do not claim to bring "freedom" and "true democracy" to their enemies, only to enslave them and set them the shackles of a corrupt and blinded econnomy and society.

Edited by Andar89, 25 May 2012 - 12:21 AM.

[Ramien]

Rejarial Galatan, on 25 May 2012 - 12:15 AM, said:

To the freeborn that you are, it is a paradox. We strive to be the best warriors we can, and despise the old, and look down upon them with disdain for NOT finding death in combat. The old are beyond use, they are frail and infirm. They are to be pitied.

On the contrary... They are to be learned from. If they can survive to 'infirmity' on a battlefield, they must have something beyond genetics that makes them superior warriors. Knowledge is not a genetic trait, and those who have learned how to survive have much to teach those who will be trying to survive on the morrow.
You throw out one of your greatest resources and want to talk about 'wasting resources'?

[Krubarax]

Vulpesveritas, on 25 May 2012 - 12:15 AM, said:

See... that Solahma thing is idiotic in and of itself; as is the clan prospect that ageing is dishonorable. You can learn a great deal from your elders that you cannot otherwise. Simple thing is, every society is flawed, clan or non-clan. The greatest thing one can truly do is enjoy every day of their life and never have any regret. The greatest honor to be had is the respect and love given freely by other sentient beings.
Plus, if you are truly skilled no opponent will ever defeat you in combat anyhow.

The clans look down upon old warriors, because by the time they reach 60 (for example) there have been spawned THREE more generations, which are (in theory, because of how the breeding program works) better warriors.

Some of the oldies are selected to train and educate sibkos, thus we DO learn from our older.

[William Petersen]

GB Krubarax, on 25 May 2012 - 12:16 AM, said:

This was at the birth of the clans.
There were no crusaders or wardens back then.
The clans of today can no more be blamed for that, than can you Spheorids, of the actions of Stefan Amaris.

Besides. Them using weapons on masss destruction kinda proved them right to be annihilated, quiaff?

Finally! Someone who uses that word correctly! I'd hug you, but you'd probably break my ribs.

Using WMDs in defense of being utterly annihilated by a force over twenty-times it's size? Yeah, how dare they try to survive by any means necessary.

Also, Amaris was of the Terran Hedgemony. Y'know, the heart of the Star League, the only Inner Sphere power that no longer exists?


Anywho, I still sincerely doubt that a Clan, *any* clan, even circa 3050 Wolf would have much tolerance for people slandering either Kerensky, the Clan society on the whole, or even mentioning Clan Wolverine. That's not really much of a free society like the Star League, is it? Individual clans may be more or less strict on the Caste system, I forget; it has been many years since I pored over my Crusader and Warden source books. =)

[Vulpesveritas]

I'm still a fan of psuedo-anarchic communes. Individuals should simply get their act together and self govern, and work together instead of trying to kill each other....

Hey clanners: I have an idea- why not just kill off every warrior and make it so that only people who want peace get to breed? Wouldn't that solve the conflict issue in itself?

[Infine]

GB Krubarax, on 25 May 2012 - 12:13 AM, said:

Short answear:
1.Restore the Starleague
2. Halt the breeding program. Or limit it to produce enough warriors to sustain the SLDF
3. Profit!

I have a problem with the second point. No, actually I don't. You trueborn nobles do. Because you are high and mighty, you are above those pesky civilians, above those greedy merchants. You are the highest caste, you are the brightest, the humanity's finest. You uphold your traditions, you preserve and advance your heritage. Do you honestly believe that you guys simply gather and say "the time has come for us to become the history and leave the humanity to lower castes"? I don't. As long as you consider yourself the best, the highest caste, you will never do this. In fact, you will consider such a move to be a betrayal of your bloodlines.

[Sparks Murphey]

Andar89, on 25 May 2012 - 12:19 AM, said:

A Clanner is a true free person, everyone can become a warrior and reach something he might dream for, or fail in its attempt to seize his goal.

Is that kind of in the same way that the Free Worlds League is a true free democracy, with complete power invested in one man "for the duration of the emergency"? Everyone can become a warrior, but freeborn warriors are snubbed and relegated to standing guard over wastelands.

[Quentin Yatoki]

Sparks Murphey, on 25 May 2012 - 12:12 AM, said:

If you wanna RP, there's a fan fiction forum here. Go there are spout insults at the Inner Sphere. Heck, I'll join you. But leave the IC bile and rage out of an OOC thread about why real world people dislike the Clans.

This. I would like to have a real discussion about why people dislike the clans, instead of this pointless annoying RP.

I personally find the Clans very interesting from a Lore point of view. I think they are hypocritical radical scum, being idealized ubermensches who believe that they are superior to the IS, but makes for a good story for the IS to be able to beat them back. However, I ****** me off to see people spouting off about how they want their Timberwolf or [insert other clan mech here]. Like it or not, this game is going to be about the IS, at least at the start.

Also I am very concerned about the impact the Clan invasion will have on the gameplay. It could potentially break the game if not done right. The fact that a clan mediums often outclass IS Heavies is a serious issue.

Edited by Quentin Yatoki, 25 May 2012 - 12:27 AM.

[Rejarial Galatan]

Andar89, on 25 May 2012 - 12:19 AM, said:

A Clanner is a true free person, everyone can become a Warrior and reach something he might dream for, or fail in its attempt to seize his goal. It is the only honorable life and social structure in and around the Sphere, limited only by personal skill and bravery and not by Brithname and the connection of your parents. They fight and die for a greater cause and their personal might, free and open. They do not claim to bring "freedom" and "true democracy" to their enemies, only to enslave them and set them the shackles of a corrupt and blinded econnomy and society.

actually, you are incorrect. Unless you are from a sibko your chances to become a warrior are small. SOME clans will allow freeborns to try to earn that right, but more often than not, unless you are a trueborn warrior and pass your first trial of position, you will NOT become warrior.

[William Canavi]

Vulpesveritas, on 25 May 2012 - 12:23 AM, said:

I'm still a fan of psuedo-anarchic communes. Individuals should simply get their act together and self govern, and work together instead of trying to kill each other....

Hey clanners: I have an idea- why not just kill off every warrior and make it so that only people who want peace get to breed? Wouldn't that solve the conflict issue in itself?

No, because then people would fight over who actually gets to breed out of those who qualify to breed.

[Krubarax]

Well.
Let me just say.
When I first fell in love with Clan Ghost Bear
I could never dream of how good it all would turn out.

How my jaw dropped to the floor and I laughed out loud when Khan Bjorn Jorgensson gave all the other Clans that little surprise at the council before the Great Refusal.

Good times man.
Good times.

[Rejarial Galatan]

Quentin Yatoki, on 25 May 2012 - 12:23 AM, said:

This. I would like to have a real discussion about why people dislike the clans, instead of this pointless annoying RP.

I personally find the Clans very interesting from a Lore point of view. I think they are hypocritical radical scum, being iealized ubermensches who believe that they are superior to the IS, but makes for a good story for the IS to be able to beat them back. However, I ****** me off to see people spouting off about how they want their Timberwolf or [insert other clan mech here]. Like it or not, this game is going to be about the IS, at least at the start.

Also I am very concerned about the impact the Clan invasion will have on the gameplay. It could potentially break the game if not done right. The fact that a clan mediums often outclass IS Heavies is a serious issue.

actually, no it is not a serious issue at all. What you are conveniently forgetting is the fact that the IS LOST Star League Technology, the Clans DID NOT. We bring that which you lost, we fight with what you do not have. deal with it.

OH, and I am truly sorry you do not like a good bit of theater. As a Minds Eye Theater Actor, I love a good story driven, good player driven story, as do alot of others I would wager. Do not hate on us because we can bring spice to the argument with more than facts. For we can give voice to that which has no voice.

Edited by Rejarial Galatan, 25 May 2012 - 12:27 AM.

[Evgeny Bear]

Rejarial Galatan, on 25 May 2012 - 12:23 AM, said:

actually, you are incorrect. Unless you are from a sibko your chances to become a warrior are small. SOME clans will allow freeborns to try to earn that right, but more often than not, unless you are a trueborn warrior and pass your first trial of position, you will NOT become warrior.

That is what I have said, only limit is your personal Skill and bravery. Small chance or not, there is one, and you not end up as cannonfodder for a Prince or Duke. And to those who fail, nothing get wasted, who survives serves the Clan in another Caste and becomes valuable for the Society again.
2 Freeborn Kahns prove me right.

Edited by Andar89, 25 May 2012 - 12:28 AM.

[William Canavi]

Rejarial Galatan, on 25 May 2012 - 12:26 AM, said:

actually, no it is not a serious issue at all. What you are conveniently forgetting is the fact that the IS LOST Star League Technology, the Clans DID NOT. We bring that which you lost, we fight with what you do not have. deal with it.

I'm actually with you on this. The fighting the IS did at the behest of the Great Houses did destroyed a lot of LosTech factories. That's a fact. And now that the Clans are here, we can engage them in honorable combat, and take their Mechs, thier weapons, and even their pilots as Bondsmen provided we can manage to stand up to them.

[Krubarax]

Infine, on 25 May 2012 - 12:23 AM, said:

I have a problem with the second point. No, actually I don't. You trueborn nobles do. Because you are high and mighty, you are above those pesky civilians, above those greedy merchants. You are the highest caste, you are the brightest, the humanity's finest. You uphold your traditions, you preserve and advance your heritage. Do you honestly believe that you guys simply gather and say "the time has come for us to become the history and leave the humanity to lower castes"? I don't. As long as you consider yourself the best, the highest caste, you will never do this. In fact, you will consider such a move to be a betrayal of your bloodlines.

Yes I do.
Becaus if it is something we clan warriors are good at.
It is accepting our fate and following tradition. As you said.
And tradition and rules says that the clan who takes Terra, becomes the IlClan.
Which means, the "race" or competition, if you will, is basicly over.

After this, all clans would basicly be absorbed into the IlClan. Kind of like being taken bondsmen (which you already know, clan warriors rarely, if ever, refuses)

After that, it is simply a matter of letting older generations die off, while lowerig the production od the breeding program to sustain the SLDF.
Thoswe warriors created would still be just as high and might.
Just fewer.

Problem?