135 replies to this topic

[Shredhead]

Rhent, on 21 February 2013 - 11:37 AM, said:

You should see my LRM 50 + Tag + ERPPC + Extended Sensor Range + BAP LRM boat. The crap is hilarious at this point. I need 3 pieces of equipment to fire my main weapon system, and even then no guarantee I will be allowed to fire, excluding the 160M minimum range also placed on LRM's.

In using a LRM boat you are a hindrance and a liability to your team, especially when you use an assault mech to do this! People need to learn teamplay! What is wrong with you?

[DocBach]

Vassago Rain, on 21 February 2013 - 11:36 AM, said:

No, those are quite clearly personal attacks, and you're acting like a child. On the internet.

Please crawl back to where you came from, and take the ECM discussion with you. It's been explained why it's not an issue. Repeatedly. PGI have made no attempts to 'fix' it, because there's nothing to fix. It puts a blanket on that prevents lock, and hides you at range. That's what it's for. Now you have more of the tool sthey were telling us would go in to act as counters to ECM at your disposal.

The biggest one is PPC EMP effects.

So telling you that the behavior you exhibit is some of the hallmark signs of a lot of disorders is a personal attack? If the shoe fits...

This is a post about proposing changes to the ECM system. My posts about ideas on how PGI could change ECM are completely valid here. In fact, your continuous posting arguing against it without any discussion is pretty disruptive to the OP. I kindly ask you to leave, so the rest of us can continue our discussion without disturbance.

[Joseph Mallan]

Shredhead, on 21 February 2013 - 11:57 AM, said:

In using a LRM boat you are a hindrance and a liability to your team, especially when you use an assault mech to do this! People need to learn teamplay! What is wrong with you?

You realize some of the TT games best missile boats are Assault class right? Right? the Clan even has a 100T missile boat (Ark really), carries 8 LRM15s! Canon design, FYI!

[Tikkamasala]

Joseph Mallan, on 21 February 2013 - 11:51 AM, said:

You cannot give either side the undecided votes because they haven't made a choice. That's why you notate the undecided and factor them out of the equation.

That's exactly why i did not add them to the i-like- or i-don't-like-crowd. But removing them will skew the (perceived) result. It won't matter in your example, it does if you look at not perfectly balanced results.

[Fergrim]

And as this thread has been growing, thousands of games have been played with ecm as it is and should be... and yet the world turns placidly, as if impervious to this great injustice

Edited by Fergrim, 21 February 2013 - 12:44 PM.

[Shredhead]

Joseph Mallan, on 21 February 2013 - 12:07 PM, said:

You realize some of the TT games best missile boats are Assault class right? Right? the Clan even has a 100T missile boat (Ark really), carries 8 LRM15s! Canon design, FYI!

You realize this is neither TT, nor do we have said mechs ingame yet, right?

[Khobai]

Quote

Please crawl back to where you came from,and take the ECM discussion with you. It's been explained why it's not an issue.

Again... it doesnt matter if ECM is balanced or not. You could make the most convincing argument ECM is balanced and back it up with as much proof as you want. The fact still remains that the majority of the playerbase does not like how ECM is currently implemented. Its not a matter of balance. Its a matter of appeasement.

[Tikkamasala]

Khobai, on 21 February 2013 - 12:48 PM, said:

The fact still remains that the majority of the playerbase does not like how ECM is currently implemented. Its not a matter of balance. Its a matter of appeasement.

It's sad that the majority (55% btw) cannot deal with it

Edited by Tikkamasala, 21 February 2013 - 12:54 PM.

[Rhent]

Shredhead, on 21 February 2013 - 11:57 AM, said:

In using a LRM boat you are a hindrance and a liability to your team, especially when you use an assault mech to do this! People need to learn teamplay! What is wrong with you?

Um no, it depends on the fight. The build is set up to counter DC mechs. In some runs the build is #1 for kills/damage, in other runs if my team has no lights and a light ECM mech bringing friends can make my LRM's less effective.

I take it you have no clue how to:
-Dead fire LRM's
-Snipe DC's
-Use Tag
-Use Terrain to your advantage
-Situation Awareness

[Rhent]

Orzorn, on 21 February 2013 - 11:45 AM, said:

Not sure if you knew, but BAP doesn't help missiles, actually. It doesn't increase lock speed nor help against ECM last I heard. Also, its 180 min range.

With no BAP, your range of detection is reduced. Depending on the fight, being able to lock on a mech at 900M and get a fire when there is no one else detecting that mech can be useful. Especially if he's in the open.

[Jakob Knight]

Fergrim, on 21 February 2013 - 12:44 PM, said:

And as this thread has been growing, thousands of games have been played with ecm as it is and should be... and yet the world turns placidly, as if impervious to this great injustice

Since not a single game in MWO has been or is capable of being played with ECM as it should be, your entire statement is false. It is already established that ECM in MWO is not what ECM was designed to be.

And I have yet to see this world turn placidly. Go to Afganistan, Pakistan, Mali, or Syria, and see how placid it is.

[Orzorn]

Tikkamasala, on 21 February 2013 - 12:53 PM, said:

It's sad that the majority (55% btw) cannot deal with it

I can deal with it.

That doesn't mean I like it.

Rhent, on 21 February 2013 - 12:59 PM, said:

With no BAP, your range of detection is reduced. Depending on the fight, being able to lock on a mech at 900M and get a fire when there is no one else detecting that mech can be useful. Especially if he's in the open.

Good point. I always forget that detection range is 800, mostly because forward units usually get vision for you anyways, although Alpine might put a stop to that.

[Fergrim]

----

Quote

Its not a matter of balance. Its a matter of appeasement.

---

^^The pugger's ECM argument in a nutshell^^ Makes a lot more sense now, doesn't it?

Quote

The fact still remains that the majority of the playerbase does not like how ECM is currently implemented

You are absolutely incorrect. That poll is unscientific, poorly set up and consists only of the sub-section of mechwarrior players who read the forums and also responded to a user formed poll have indicated displeasure. This totally disregards the fact that someone who isn't in high-gear whine mode about the game is unlikely to be interested in another whine-thread about ecm.

Telling us how loud your voices sound in the tiny echo chamber that is this forum has no bearing or relevance to ecm as it stands. You're going to be waiting a long time with your mouth open, eyes shut waiting for that "appeasement" you demand.

Quote

Since not a single game in MWO has been or is capable of being played with ECM as it should be, your entire statement is false. It is already established that ECM in MWO is not what ECM was designed to be

http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__1863739

^^ where the dev's tell you the hit point reduction and PPC counter were the changes they had in mind (seems like only minor, undefined and non-major changes in the works)

http://mwomercs.com/...dian-ecm-suite/

^^ Where the devs say that...

"We would also like to remind people that the ECM is not all powerful. The rock to its scissors is the TAG laser. If you use it to hit anyone cloaked by an ECM, you and your team will be able to target them. Like any new addition to the game, this just requires a shift in thinking how to equip your Mech and/or team. "

So.
Learn.
To.
Play.

Because "appeasement" isn't coming any time soon.

Again, I'm thrilled with the game and after I'm done making this post, I will be going to enjoy an ecm mechanic employed exactly as I would like it, with the help of a well formed team. I'm sorry you can't do the same.

Edited by Fergrim, 21 February 2013 - 01:25 PM.

[Khobai]

Quote

You are absolutely incorrect. That poll is unscientific, poorly set up and consists only of the sub-section of mechwarrior players who read the forums and also responded to a user formed poll have indicated displeasure

Its more than one poll buddy. Theres been dozens of polls on the subject of ECM. And not a single one of them has had the majority of votes in favor of keeping ECM as it is.

[Orgasmo]

Instead of blocking out all LRM locks within its 180 radius, ECM should make LRM take 50% longer instead. Also, it should not counter TAG in its radius. It's ridiculous how you are tagging Target A, and you lose lock due to Target B with ECM walks by near you. I understand that TAG information could not be relayed to your teammates due to ECM interfering with it, but even your own mech?

Edited by Orgasmo, 21 February 2013 - 01:20 PM.

[General Taskeen]

Shredhead, on 21 February 2013 - 12:45 PM, said:

You realize this is neither TT, nor do we have said mechs ingame yet, right?

Then where did the Atlas originate from? Where did ECM originate from? Where did an AC/2 doing 2 damage originate from? No its not a board game, but its definitely heavily based on it.

Edited by General Taskeen, 21 February 2013 - 01:24 PM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Shredhead, on 21 February 2013 - 12:45 PM, said:

You realize this is neither TT, nor do we have said mechs ingame yet, right?

Just checking the facts. Cause Yes we do. One of the said Missile Boats is the Awesome (8R & 8T). SInce I was considered to be Boating LRMs with 2 LRM20s on my Atlas, These Mechs qualify as Assault class LRM Boats.

[Joseph Mallan]

Tikkamasala, on 21 February 2013 - 12:12 PM, said:

That's exactly why i did not add them to the i-like- or i-don't-like-crowd. But removing them will skew the (perceived) result. It won't matter in your example, it does if you look at not perfectly balanced results.

I included the undecided info to avoid that very thing sir. And my figures even leave the undecideds out of the percentages. Reducing any possible perceived bias.

[Rhent]

Orzorn, on 21 February 2013 - 01:16 PM, said:

I can deal with it.

That doesn't mean I like it.


Good point. I always forget that detection range is 800, mostly because forward units usually get vision for you anyways, although Alpine might put a stop to that.

When I'm playing a long range class, I want BAP if I have space only for the range. I understand BAP is probably a diminishing return item (IOW's its almost useless to non Streak), but its still nice to get an idea of whats out there longer range. Especially when playing an Assault, you need every warning you can get to respond to attacks.

[Fergrim]

Hey, I'm about to go to work, thank you everyone who engaged with me on the topic.

In the end, I'm sure we'll all still be playing, alternating turns defending the status quo :]

So are you all happy with the direction they took with sensor boost, PPC and the reduced hitpoints?

If not, what would the next incremental step you'd take be? Incremental being the key word.