97 replies to this topic

[Joe Mallad]

First off I just want to say the game is definitely moving in the right direction but... not whining or crying about LRMs and SRMs... just suggesting a fix for those that feel the issue has yet to be fixed.

First off... Repair and Rearm is not coming back, you made that clear in the latest ask the devs. LRM damage was UPED to 1.8 because most LRM users complained that the LRMs did not do enough damage for the cost to rearm them and they were losing more money than it was worth. And for the most part they were right. Now that we dont have the rearm cost, i think some of the LRM boating issue could be solved with a reduction in LRM damage. If it was dropped down to 1.5, I think that would still give LRMs good damage but not so much that others feel they are being stripped by LRMs to quick.

On that note... I feel that if a mech is intended to be an LRM carrier or SRM carrier or both, it should be just that. I feel SRM and LRM hardpoints need to be split and if a mech like the A1 Catapult comes with LRMs and has 6 hard points, those hard points should be just LRM only hard points. And all Cats should be this way. These variants were never intended to carry SRMs.

Now im sure some will complain that this would kill their SRM splat cat A1s. Well yes it would. Either PGI can make it an LRM mech like it should be or at least with the A1 Cat variant, give it 4 LRM hardpoints and 2 SRM hardpoints. But it should in no way be able to run all SRMs or Streaks. On the other hand... mech like the Jenner, raven and Commando who come with SRMs should only have SRM hardpoints and should not be able to mount LRM anything.

Mech like the Atlas and Stalker have both SRMs and LRMs right? Great... so make it stay that way. If the mech come standard with 4 Missile hard points and 2 of them happen to house LRMs and 2 house SRMs... do not allow someone to boat all as LRM or SRM. If you are not a LRM uses well than guess what, you strip the 2 LRMs out, free up weight and use that for other weapons, armor or ammo for your SRMs. And the same with SRM uses. You want your Atlas to run with SRMs? Fine but you only have those 2 SRM hard points to do it with. Your LRM hardpoints can be stripped and weight allocated to other things.


So to recap... drop LRM damage back down to 1.5 and make LRM and SRM hardpoints separate so SRM and LRM boating can be handled.

Edited by Yoseful Mallad, 08 February 2013 - 08:37 PM.

[Drakenn]

Seperating the missile hardpoints into two different classifications really limits customization. I don't think this is the answer. Maybe limiting the damage, but I don't think it makes sense to split the hardpoint into two sections.

[p00k]

no

[Joe Mallad]

Drakenn, on 08 February 2013 - 08:29 PM, said:

Seperating the missile hardpoints into two different classifications really limits customization. I don't think this is the answer. Maybe limiting the damage, but I don't think it makes sense to split the hardpoint into two sections.

limiting the damage would have to be extensive so a boat isnt decimating a whole team like the Splat Cats and LRM Stalkers are now. All that will do is cause people not to play them because once again, they could not put out good damage. I understand customization is what we all want but things like this need limitations and make some of these mech actually play the roles they should be intended to. You can still customize up and down between the different SRM or LRM sizes but we should not be able to put SRM in LRM mounts and or LRM in SRM mounts. Also... if a mech has a NARC tube... we should not be able to fire anything but a NARC from it.

[Poisoner]

Yoseful Mallad, on 08 February 2013 - 08:26 PM, said:

First off I just want to say the game is definitely moving in the right direction but... not whining or crying about LRMs and SRMs... just suggesting a fix for those that feel the issue has yet to be fixed.

First off... Repair and Rearm is not coming back, you made that clear in the latest ask the devs. LRM damage was UPED to 1.8 because most LRM users complained that the LRMs did not do enough damage for the cost to rearm them and they were losing more money than it was worth. And for the most part they were right. Now that we dont have the rearm cost, i think some of the LRM boating issue could be solved with a reduction in LRM damage. If it was dropped down to 1.5, I think that would still give LRMs good damage but not so much that others feel they are being stripped by LRMs to quick.

On that note... I feel that if a mech is intended to be an LRM carrier or SRM carrier or both, it should be just that. I feel SRM and LRM hardpoints need to be split and if a mech like the A1 Catapult comes with LRMs and has 6 hard points, those hard points should be just LRM only hard points. And all Cats should be this way. These variants were never intended to carry SRMs.

Now im sure some will complain that this would kill their SRM splat cat A1s. Well yes it would. Either PGI can make it an LRM mech like it should be or at least with the A1 Cat variant, give it 4 LRM hardpoints and 2 SRM hardpoints. But it should in no way be able to run all SRMs or Streaks. On the other hand... mech like the Jenner, raven and Commando who come with SRMs should only have SRM hardpoints and should not be able to mount LRM anything.

Mech like the Atlas and Stalker have both SRMs and LRMs right? Great... so make it stay that way. If the mech come standard with 4 Missile hard points and 2 of them happen to house LRMs and 2 house SRMs... do not allow someone to boat all as LRM or SRM. If you are not a LRM uses well than guess what, you strip the 2 LRMs out, free up weight and use that for other weapons, armor or ammo for your SRMs. And the same with SRM uses. You want your Atlas to run with SRMs? Fine but you only have those 2 SRM hard points to do it with. Your LRM hardpoints can be stripped and weight allocated to other things.


So to recap... drop LRM damage back down to 1.5 and make LRM and SRM hardpoints separate so SRM and LRM boating can be handled.

First world problem.

[ProtoformX]

p00k, on 08 February 2013 - 08:33 PM, said:

no

Indeed...

[Joe Mallad]

So i take it all you guys that say no is because you either run all SRMs or LRMs on mech that truly were never meant to be used as such? Not being an ***... just honestly asking is all.

[Kaziganthi]

Actually repair and rearm was removed because people were complaining about the c-bill grind. After ECM was introduced you barely saw any LRM boats, so it wasn't the cost of rearming that made them disapear.

So in fact your post/poll IS actually a whine about LRM's, because the only srm fix you are suggesting is a seperation on the hardpoints which won't really fix the SRM issue. You want to nerf the damage on LRM's again as well as nerf how many people can carry.

If you want to go down that tree, how about seperating the energy hardpoints and ballistic hardpoints as well s o you don;t see laserboats or guasscats/guassphracts......

Or better yet, make it so you can't customise any mech and you have to battle with the actual Mech/Mech varient as per canon.

[Parnage Winters]

Yeah I am not entirely sure you know this but no you see the problem we had with R&R was wasting extra tonnage to exploit the re-arm because it was cheaper to run sniper/direct fire builds over LRM's and numerous other things I've talked about in the past as has several other folks. Needless to say it had some flaws.

lrms are already considered "meh" to most serious players. Why should one make them worse? Because I assure you that hands down a direct fire "sniper" load out will fair generally better at LRMS and they are often not hindered by someone under 180 meters nor ECM.

[StalaggtIKE]

You want to know why people are building Splatcats? It because ECM removed all lock-on weapons. The A1 can't self designate because it has no energy slots. So why take LRM or SSRM, if one device can completely negate them? No. You just move on to the next best thing. This is a complex issue, that will only get worst until PGI decide to fix the issues instead of treating the symptoms. They must:

• Revert LRM back to 1.7 damage; with this damage it was a support tool as it should be
  
• SRM flight pattern is currently being looked at, so we shall see if this fixes it
  
• SSRM simply needs to have a quicker lock-on decay.
  
• ECM needs to have its stealth aspect defeated by los; it will continue to block target sharing as now

Edited by StalaggtIKE, 08 February 2013 - 08:46 PM.

[Suki]

Try at least using some AMS at least before crying on forum. Most people stopped using it in the race to be the first damager. The people without AMS all deserve the LRM HELL dropped on their head.

[Warrax the Chaos Warrior]

We've had unlimited customization for so long that I don't think many people will accept restrictions at this point, even if they make sense or help balance (people love their unbalanced builds). I also doubt PGI is willing to deal with the outrage that would occur if they did try to implement such restrictions.

If they'd started off with a more limited hardpoint system, the current state of weapon balance would be in a much better place than it is now. There are canon variants that are "boats", but the current system allows almost everything to be a boat. The result is that many non-boats (Dragon, Centurion, or if you just don't want to) have ended up being sub-optimal.

edit:

Yoseful Mallad, on 08 February 2013 - 08:42 PM, said:

So i take it all you guys that say no is because you either run all SRMs or LRMs on mech that truly were never meant to be used as such? Not being an ***... just honestly asking is all.

Probably, yea.

I also agree with your idea about the NARC hardpoint, and would add that TAG should have it's own sort of mount as well. They aren't weapons any more than a BAP or ECM is a weapon, they should't use weapon slots.

Edited by Warrax the Chaos Warrior, 08 February 2013 - 08:50 PM.

[Parnage Winters]

Suki, on 08 February 2013 - 08:45 PM, said:

Try at least using some AMS at least before crying on forum. Most people stopped using it in the race to be the first damager. The people without AMS all deserve the LRM HELL dropped on their head.

or just stand behind a rock, a building a wayword dropship stand near a mech with ams..several dozen options when you think about it.

[Mycrus]

No.

[80Bit]

I keep seeing posts complaining about LRM boats. I have not been killed by LRM fire in at least my last 50 matches.

Is this an 8v8 problem that I don't see because I PUG?

[Kaziganthi]

80Bit, on 08 February 2013 - 08:49 PM, said:

I keep seeing posts complaining about LRM boats. I have not been killed by LRM fire in at least my last 50 matches.

Is this an 8v8 problem that I don't see because I PUG?

From the 8v8 matches I've played in..which isn't that many..the only LRM boat I saw was the one I was sitting in.

[Suki]

80Bit, on 08 February 2013 - 08:49 PM, said:

I keep seeing posts complaining about LRM boats. I have not been killed by LRM fire in at least my last 50 matches.

Is this an 8v8 problem that I don't see because I PUG?

I didn't see them in last 7-8 days at all.
Guess it's another poll "nerf A1" hidden by missiles thread.

[Joe Mallad]

Kaziganthi, on 08 February 2013 - 08:43 PM, said:

Actually repair and rearm was removed because people were complaining about the c-bill grind. After ECM was introduced you barely saw any LRM boats, so it wasn't the cost of rearming that made them disappear.

So in fact your post/poll IS actually a whine about LRM's, because the only srm fix you are suggesting is a seperation on the hardpoints which won't really fix the SRM issue. You want to nerf the damage on LRM's again as well as nerf how many people can carry.

If you want to go down that tree, how about seperating the energy hardpoints and ballistic hardpoints as well s o you don;t see laserboats or guasscats/guassphracts......

Or better yet, make it so you can't customise any mech and you have to battle with the actual Mech/Mech varient as per canon.

i never said Rearm cost made LRMs disappear. I said LRM damage was uped so people would not feel they were wasting money to rearm them for the little bit of damage they were doing. Try reading what I said. And as for Energy and Laser hard points... people are using them as intended. With the exception of the K2. And im sorry i do feel that the K2 with coming stock with Machine guns should have a limitation on just how far you can upgrade and that limit should be up to AC5s/UAC5s and nothing more. IM not complaining, just giving suggestions on how to better balance some of these outlandish builds. If they want a mech to boat something, than so be it... we have a Swayback or even Awesome variants that can do it. We have mech that can boat Ballistics. We have mech that can boat SRMs or LRMs. So people will still be able to boat if they want, just not with some of the mech they have turned into boats as we have now.

[Joe Mallad]

Suki, on 08 February 2013 - 08:45 PM, said:

Try at least using some AMS at least before crying on forum. Most people stopped using it in the race to be the first damager. The people without AMS all deserve the LRM HELL dropped on their head.

like i said... im not complaining, but i lot of others really are. Every match im in, i hear someone .complain about some form of missile boating, SSRM, SRM or LRM. I still run AMS on most of my builds and it has saves my *** from LRMs. Im just suggesting a fix. And it really seems to be for the most part... only the boaters that are replying with their NOs lol

for those that vote no... at least give some insight on why you say no lol

[Inconspicuous]

Have not noticed a problem with LRMs in a long while...

The hardpoints seem fine as they are.