97 replies to this topic

[80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie]

Separating LRMs and SRMs into different hardpoints DOES NOTHING

You have to actually look at why LRMs and SRMs are so effective/ineffictive and fix that.

You also have to look at long term solutions to missiles and what Clan variants of LRMs/SRMs will also do to the impact of balance of the game

http://mwomercs.com/...85#entry1706585

This thread is a much more in depth look at and fix as to why LRMs are in the state they are in.

[Wolfways]

StalaggtIKE, on 08 February 2013 - 08:44 PM, said:

Revert LRM back to 1.7 damage; with this damage it was a support tool as it should be

Who says LRM's are a "support tool"?

[Suki]

Yoseful Mallad, on 08 February 2013 - 08:56 PM, said:

i never said Rearm cost made LRMs disappear. I said LRM damage was uped so people would not feel they were wasting money to rearm them for the little bit of damage they were doing. Try reading what I said. And as for Energy and Laser hard points... people are using them as intended. With the exception of the K2. And im sorry i do feel that the K2 with coming stock with Machine guns should have a limitation on just how far you can upgrade and that limit should be up to AC5s/UAC5s and nothing more. IM not complaining, just giving suggestions on how to better balance some of these outlandish builds. If they want a mech to boat something, than so be it... we have a Swayback or even Awesome variants that can do it. We have mech that can boat Ballistics. We have mech that can boat SRMs or LRMs. So people will still be able to boat if they want, just not with some of the mech they have turned into boats as we have now.

If You dont like boats and wnna fix them all - this I can understand, I think we all can discuss it. Somebody doesn't like 6PPC Awesome, somebody 6SRM Catas, 4X with its ballistics or LRM Atlas.
But here all You want is fixing missiles, 2/3 of ones are useless most of the battle via ECM.

Don't like LRM/SRM? Just be a man already and kill it ingame!!

[Brilig]

I don't like the idea of limiting missile slots either. If boating is an issue, I think there are some better ways to address them without limiting customization so much. I'm not sure there is anything wrong with LRMs in their current state.

SRM spread could be tweaked as StalaggtIKE mentioned. Though making the spread larger would make them even worse at anything but point blank range.

Or if boating them is an issue. For multiple missile slots in a signal section you could separate the salvos between SRM launchers. So instead of 3 SRM-6's firing in one blob of 18 missiles, you would have 3 distinct groups of 6 missiles. Still all fired at once but with some distance between each group. That could spread the damage out but still keep each group tight enough to hit a target closer to max range.

[Kaziganthi]

Yoseful Mallad, on 08 February 2013 - 08:56 PM, said:

i never said Rearm cost made LRMs disappear. I said LRM damage was uped so people would not feel they were wasting money to rearm them for the little bit of damage they were doing. Try reading what I said. And as for Energy and Laser hard points... people are using them as intended. With the exception of the K2. And im sorry i do feel that the K2 with coming stock with Machine guns should have a limitation on just how far you can upgrade and that limit should be up to AC5s/UAC5s and nothing more. IM not complaining, just giving suggestions on how to better balance some of these outlandish builds. If they want a mech to boat something, than so be it... we have a Swayback or even Awesome variants that can do it. We have mech that can boat Ballistics. We have mech that can boat SRMs or LRMs. So people will still be able to boat if they want, just not with some of the mech they have turned into boats as we have now.

I think you need to re-read what you posted

Yoseful Mallad, on 08 February 2013 - 08:56 PM, said:

First off... Repair and Rearm is not coming back, you made that clear in the latest ask the devs. LRM damage was UPED to 1.8 because most LRM users complained that the LRMs did not do enough damage for the cost to rearm them and they were losing more money than it was worth.

This statement indicates that you believe LRM's vanished because the cost to re-arm them made them overpriced to run.

Edit: LRMs were not up'd because of costs. They were dropped down to 1.7 after the Artemis debacle and PGI were watching. They felt they needed a little tweek and increased damage by 0.1 pt. It had nothing to do with costs. They were nerfed a little bit to much.
End edit

Now back to your reading comprehension....If people are using energy hardpoints as intended, then they are also using missile hardpoints as intended. You can't nerf one without the other.

Everymech in the game can be turned into a boat as it currently stands. A COM 3D with 3 streaks is boating..abliet a whimpy one, but it was still a very effective boat when it had the lagshield. The only way to stop it from happening is to remove weapon customisation from the game completely and have people only used canon mechs.

Wolfways, on 08 February 2013 - 09:07 PM, said:

Who says LRM's are a "support tool"?

Thew people who don;t like getting rained on.

Edited by Kaziganthi, 08 February 2013 - 09:25 PM.

[yashmack]

I dont understand why anyone complains, just blow the ears off the cat...
I run one of the SRM6 catapults, its pretty deadly but I die all the time in it, its not invincible
all that comes to mind reading this thread is "Learn to play..."

[StalaggtIKE]

Wolfways, on 08 February 2013 - 09:07 PM, said:

Who says LRM's are a "support tool"?

... I guess I just did. Who said they weren't?

Kaziganthi, on 08 February 2013 - 09:08 PM, said:

Thew people who don;t like getting rained on.

You mean rain as in artillery? A support tool? Imagine that.

Edited by StalaggtIKE, 08 February 2013 - 09:12 PM.

[Kaziganthi]

yashmack, on 08 February 2013 - 09:09 PM, said:

all that comes to mind reading this thread is "Learn to play..."

i didn;t want to say that......

[yashmack]

Kaziganthi, on 08 February 2013 - 09:12 PM, said:

i didn;t want to say that......

thats ok, I did...

[Demoned]

problem with making the A1 lrm only is,

it can't fit a Tag either, it would be the most useless mech on the field
and, lets face it what else can we do to the A1, that makes it viable
in a ECM friendly environment,
why do people boat SRM's?
they can't do anything eles with the A1 that's why.

i know i know get a team mate with tag to target for you,
but builds do need to be pug friendly
pugs make up the largest part of the game atm.

[Suki]

Yoseful Mallad, on 08 February 2013 - 09:01 PM, said:

like i said... im not complaining, but i lot of others really are. Every match im in, i hear someone .complain about some form of missile boating, SSRM, SRM or LRM. I still run AMS on most of my builds and it has saves my *** from LRMs. Im just suggesting a fix. And it really seems to be for the most part... only the boaters that are replying with their NOs lol

for those that vote no... at least give some insight on why you say no lol

as I said before nerfing the weapon "useless most of the battle via ECM" is a bad thing. Real LRM boats are almost gone, streakCats are almost gone (never seen one in 2 month). People started using LRM as a support weapon softening enemy armorfor themself before going brawl distance. Nerf this and all we see in the future - just ballistiks and laser BOATS.

[Kaziganthi]

StalaggtIKE, on 08 February 2013 - 09:10 PM, said:

... I guess I just did. Who said they weren't?



You mean rain as in artillery? A support tool? Imagine that.

Actually no..it's not artillery..if it was..it would hurt a hell of a lot more. Instead of 1.8dmg per round with some being taken out by AMS, how about 20 damage to a single location and 10 to the adjacent, as what will be happening if/when the Arrow IV comes into play.

[Glythe]

Kaziganthi is on the right track in that ECM greatly reduced the damage LRM boats were doing so they had to get a boost to compensate.

The problem is that we just need an anti boating rule that applies to all mechs. We need a rule that says no more than 4 of any particular weapon on a mech. And then we remove about 90% of the cheese builds.

If you take the A1 and limit to a max of 4x SRM 6 launchers it is still viable. The mech works just fine with 2 streaks even with ECM (I mastered my catapults after the ecm switch and that is what I used in my A1 with great results). For the A1 which is what you specifically seem to be having a problem with it should be limited to 4 SRM launchers.

The intent of this game is that you take weapons to work at all ranges... but the reality due to the absence of anti boating measures is that you just take every weapon to work at one range. That's really dumb and needs to get fixed.

[StalaggtIKE]

Kaziganthi, on 08 February 2013 - 09:15 PM, said:

Actually no..it's not artillery..if it was..it would hurt a hell of a lot more. Instead of 1.8dmg per round with some being taken out by AMS, how about 20 damage to a single location and 10 to the adjacent, as what will be happening if/when the Arrow IV comes into play.

Sure, let's do that. I can dodge LRM just fine. I'm just trying to reach a compromise.

Edited by StalaggtIKE, 08 February 2013 - 09:24 PM.

[Demoned]

Glythe, on 08 February 2013 - 09:20 PM, said:

The intent of this game is that you take weapons to work at all ranges... but the reality due to the absence of anti boating measures is that you just take every weapon to work at one range. That's really dumb and needs to get fixed.

hopefully the larger maps incoming, with dull down the A1's capability to get in close and fast,
at least teams should have a chance at spotting it early to get some nice raged shots in

[Joe Mallad]

Kaziganthi, on 08 February 2013 - 09:08 PM, said:

I think you need to re-read what you posted



This statement indicates that you believe LRM's vanished because the cost to re-arm them made them overpriced to run.

Now back to your reading comprehension....If people are using energy hardpoints as intended, then they are also using missile hardpoints as intended. You can't nerf one without the other.

Everymech in the game can be turned into a boat as it currently stands. A COM 3D with 3 streaks is boating..abliet a whimpy one, but it was still a very effective boat when it had the lagshield. The only way to stop it from happening is to remove weapon customisation from the game completely and have people only used canon mechs.




Thew people who don;t like getting rained on.

NO... I never said that. I never said LRMs vanished because of Repair or rearm. I said damage was uped on LRMs because people complanined that for the cost to repair and rearm them , they were not doing enough damage. Please do not put words in my mouth. The word Vanished was never used in my statement. And obviously even with RNR costs, LRM boating never vanished, it just became less common. But once people figured out that they did not need to pay for the rearm and that they would go into the next match with 75% of the LRM ammo replenished for free... I think thats was a big factor on why RNR was shelved.

[Tetatae Squawkins]

1. I'm not really sure what the hell you are talking about. It makes no sense to split missile hardpoints.

2. No.

[Kaziganthi]

StalaggtIKE, on 08 February 2013 - 09:23 PM, said:

Sure, let's do that. I can dodge LRM just fine. I'm just trying to reach a compromise.

Thats cool to me, it's just that LRM's arent a support weapon as people belive all because the most common mech in the game Catapult is classed as a "support" mech, people assume that LRMs are a support weapon. If we follow their line of thinking, that would mean medium lasers are a support weapon as well.

[yashmack]

In the last Dev QnA they pretty much said theyre not going to limit hard points to certain types of weapons


Tabrias07- Are you considering implementing hardpoint types i.e., Regular/Large or SRM/LRM only?
A: Not at this moment.

this might change in future since its not a firm NO but there is no indication they are even considering it right now

[Brilig]

Glythe, on 08 February 2013 - 09:20 PM, said:

The problem is that we just need an anti boating rule that applies to all mechs. We need a rule that says no more than 4 of any particular weapon on a mech. And then we remove about 90% of the cheese builds.

Interesting idea but you would start to run into problems with cannon builds. 6 Medium laser hunchback being a good example.

A mechanism that would reduce convergence for multiple weapons in the same section might work. it could restrict a boats effectiveness without limiting customization.