97 replies to this topic

[Joe Mallad]

Glythe, on 08 February 2013 - 09:20 PM, said:

Kaziganthi is on the right track in that ECM greatly reduced the damage LRM boats were doing so they had to get a boost to compensate.

The problem is that we just need an anti boating rule that applies to all mechs. We need a rule that says no more than 4 of any particular weapon on a mech. And then we remove about 90% of the cheese builds.

If you take the A1 and limit to a max of 4x SRM 6 launchers it is still viable. The mech works just fine with 2 streaks even with ECM (I mastered my catapults after the ecm switch and that is what I used in my A1 with great results). For the A1 which is what you specifically seem to be having a problem with it should be limited to 4 SRM launchers.

The intent of this game is that you take weapons to work at all ranges... but the reality due to the absence of anti boating measures is that you just take every weapon to work at one range. That's really dumb and needs to get fixed.

this would make things a bit better but for mech that are meant to be boats of some kind like the Swayback...it would not work. To all those that think im trying to nerf LRMs or their precious SRMs... im not, im just tying to give alternatives to the missile boating problems. The other boating issues like PPCs is another issue altogether that PGI has now created because they keep trowing bandaids on ECM.

[yashmack]

Kaziganthi, on 08 February 2013 - 09:27 PM, said:

Thats cool to me, it's just that LRM's arent a support weapon as people belive all because the most common mech in the game Catapult is classed as a "support" mech, people assume that LRMs are a support weapon. If we follow their line of thinking, that would mean medium lasers are a support weapon as well.

the reason they are considered a support weapon is due to the fact that if youre going to get successful hits youre going to need a spotter, someone to find and keep targets for you
You are therefore supporting that mech and your team with indirect fire...
SRM are not support weapons as they are direct fire, you have to be in front of the mech youre firing at and you need to be under 270 meters, youre in the thick of battle with SRM where as with LRM you can be almost a full kilometer away and still rain fiery death
under 200m and you dont do any damage, that is not a direct damage weapon in any way...

[Joe Mallad]

yashmack, on 08 February 2013 - 09:28 PM, said:

In the last Dev QnA they pretty much said theyre not going to limit hard points to certain types of weapons


Tabrias07- Are you considering implementing hardpoint types i.e., Regular/Large or SRM/LRM only?
A: Not at this moment.

this might change in future since its not a firm NO but there is no indication they are even considering it right now

not at this moment is different from plain out no.

[yashmack]

Yoseful Mallad, on 08 February 2013 - 09:30 PM, said:

this would make things a bit better but for mech that are meant to be boats of some kind like the Swayback...it would not work. To all those that think im trying to nerf LRMs or their precious SRMs... im not, im just tying to give alternatives to the missile boating problems. The other boating issues like PPCs is another issue altogether that PGI has now created because they keep trowing bandaids on ECM.

I dont consider missile boating a problem...
you need to come up with a tactic to remove the LRM boat, not nerf the weapon cause you cant handle the pressure...

[Kaziganthi]

Yoseful Mallad, on 08 February 2013 - 09:25 PM, said:

NO... I never said that. I never said LRMs vanished because of Repair or rearm. I said damage was uped on LRMs because people complanined that for the cost to repair and rearm them , they were not doing enough damage. Please do not put words in my mouth. The word Vanished was never used in my statement. And obviously even with RNR costs, LRM boating never vanished, it just became less common. But once people figured out that they did not need to pay for the rearm and that they would go into the next match with 75% of the LRM ammo replenished for free... I think thats was a big factor on why RNR was shelved.

Even though you did not use the word vanish in your texty, you implied that was the reason they have all but vanished. When we had RnR, people were still boating LRM's quite a lot, all they did to avoid the cost was, drop as much as possible, load up on extra tonnage of ammo, then choose not to rearm and take the free 75% reload, or not use Artmeis and avoid the double c-bill cost. I know, I was a Cat pilot with 40-60 lrm's on my mech and I can atest to the fact there were at least 2-4 LRM boats (including myself) in just about every match I played in.

About the only thing I can agree on is your last statement..yes it was shelved for that reason.

[yashmack]

Yoseful Mallad, on 08 February 2013 - 09:31 PM, said:

not at this moment is different from plain out no.

and I said as much after i copied and pasted the note from the QA, thanks for stating it again though, I guess...

[Joe Mallad]

yashmack, on 08 February 2013 - 09:32 PM, said:

I dont consider missile boating a problem...
you need to come up with a tactic to remove the LRM boat, not nerf the weapon cause you cant handle the pressure...

i dont have an issue with either lol. I kill all mech just the same. just suggesting an alternative to attempt to bring the missile boating of either type into better of a balance.

[Kaziganthi]

yashmack, on 08 February 2013 - 09:31 PM, said:

the reason they are considered a support weapon is due to the fact that if youre going to get successful hits youre going to need a spotter, someone to find and keep targets for you
You are therefore supporting that mech and your team with indirect fire...
SRM are not support weapons as they are direct fire, you have to be in front of the mech youre firing at and you need to be under 270 meters, youre in the thick of battle with SRM where as with LRM you can be almost a full kilometer away and still rain fiery death
under 200m and you dont do any damage, that is not a direct damage weapon in any way...

Yes, and I can be even further away with guass and not even have to have moved to far from my dropsite to even start hitting opponents, and still stay out of range of lrms.

So you basically saying if it doesnt do damge close in, it's not a direct fire weapon? In that case, what about Clan LRM's which have NO minimum range. You can cop the full damage at 5 metres.

[yashmack]

and looking at your poll that suggestion has now been flatly rejected
time to move on to better and more interesting topics than beating this poor dead horse again...

[Joe Mallad]

yashmack, on 08 February 2013 - 09:32 PM, said:

and I said as much after i copied and pasted the note from the QA, thanks for stating it again though, I guess...

my apologies

[HurlockHolmes]

No.

Blame the chassis not the weapons.

That being said separating Missile slots would stifle the customization a good bit.

[yashmack]

Yoseful Mallad, on 08 February 2013 - 09:36 PM, said:

my apologies

well thanks, and now im turning my sarcasm/******** switch off... for now anyway

[Joe Mallad]

yashmack, on 08 February 2013 - 09:36 PM, said:

and looking at your poll that suggestion has now been flatly rejected
time to move on to better and more interesting topics than beating this poor dead horse again...

lol... i guess so. I think its funny though just how many get upset when someone tries to suggest a fix to a issue that i see now is really obviously an issue that still extends from ECM (at least the SRM boating anyway)

[StalaggtIKE]

Kaziganthi, on 08 February 2013 - 09:35 PM, said:

Yes, and I can be even further away with guass and not even have to have moved to far from my dropsite to even start hitting opponents, and still stay out of range of lrms.

So you basically saying if it doesnt do damge close in, it's not a direct fire weapon? In that case, what about Clan LRM's which have NO minimum range. You can cop the full damage at 5 metres.

Actually I would consider Gauss a support tool as well. You're providing sniper support. You know why GR go boom easily? Because you're not supposed to be on the front line. Sure you can, but that's just not intelligent. Same thing with LRM, in this game. You can get in closer and rain down missiles, however it takes time to get a lock-on and the travel time is far slower than AC or lasers. Instead, you should be raining missiles down as your teammates engage the enemy.

[Wolfways]

yashmack, on 08 February 2013 - 09:31 PM, said:

the reason they are considered a support weapon is due to the fact that if youre going to get successful hits youre going to need a spotter, someone to find and keep targets for you
You are therefore supporting that mech and your team with indirect fire...
SRM are not support weapons as they are direct fire, you have to be in front of the mech youre firing at and you need to be under 270 meters, youre in the thick of battle with SRM where as with LRM you can be almost a full kilometer away and still rain fiery death
under 200m and you dont do any damage, that is not a direct damage weapon in any way...

I guess because the PPC has a longer range than LRM's and a 90m minimum range it isn't a direct fire weapon?
Oh, and LRM's are direct fire weapons. They just have the option of indirect fire.

[Joe Mallad]

to all that use LRM boats or the SPLAT CAT... I truly meant no disrespect. (sarcasm ON... all these cheese builds will be taken care of, that im sure of.) sarcasm OFF... sorry again if i offended anyone.

[Wolfways]

Yoseful Mallad, on 08 February 2013 - 09:42 PM, said:

to all that use LRM boats or the SPLAT CAT... I truly meant no disrespect. (sarcasm ON... all these cheese builds will be taken care of, that im sure of.) sarcasm OFF... sorry again if i offended anyone.

I resent that. Please don't lump canon LRM mechs in with cheese builds

[Demoned]

Yoseful Mallad, on 08 February 2013 - 09:39 PM, said:

lol... i guess so. I think its funny though just how many get upset when someone tries to suggest a fix to a issue that i see now is really obviously an issue that still extends from ECM (at least the SRM boating anyway)

I'm not upset it is a viable idea imo
i just pointed out in a ECM field, the A1 would need 1 energy point to hold tag at least.
at that point would it still be a A1?
yes ECM is an issue with your idea sorry, but it did fix the streakcat problem (which was good) which i feel was a far bigger problem that the SRMcat.

also i stand by my other comment, Larger maps will cull down the A1s before they get to close for comfort

at least this topic hasn't down to far down the troll pit

[yashmack]

Wolfways, on 08 February 2013 - 09:42 PM, said:

I guess because the PPC has a longer range than LRM's and a 90m minimum range it isn't a direct fire weapon?
Oh, and LRM's are direct fire weapons. They just have the option of indirect fire.

its also the fact that LRM are missiles, they do area damage mostly, spreading out damage making them indirect
PPC does concentrated damage and is good up to 90m, you can get twice as close with a PPC as an LRM

[Suki]

Yoseful Mallad, on 08 February 2013 - 09:34 PM, said:

i dont have an issue with either lol. I kill all mech just the same. just suggesting an alternative to attempt to bring the missile boating of either type into better of a balance.

what balance are you talking about, for example LRMs?
closerange - they are useless.
longrange without spotter - they are useless.
ECM - they are useless.

What do you want to balance to get them completely useless?