99 replies to this topic

[P e n u m b r a]

this is a game not battle tech nor real life. you have to balance both. the game would be a horrible brainless rush, there is massive damage for ton difference to any ranged weapon srm's do way more for the weight and just 2 medium lasers = 1ppc you also have alot of damage fall off at range as well as XL engines being pretty much mandatory to get any decent hitting form of load out on a ranged mech. Like i said not battletech you roll to hit and here its not hard to hit a mech close up in a shooter game for your whole damage. if you played the game and are somewhat good at it you will know close range has allot of advantages as it is and it does really not need anymore. you are looking for reasons to nerf something you personally find lame. as for me being the minority there was a post about sniping being viable and there was more votes to it being viable than not, you do have a problem with the long range game otherwise you would not mention ppc mechs becoming strong like you did.

Edited by Le0yo, 25 February 2013 - 10:46 AM.

[Corvus Antaka]

keith, on 25 February 2013 - 06:50 AM, said:

okay, as long as u run your reticule should shake too. say GG to MWO, because no one will want to play. they need to balance sim and shooter. right now this is a FOTM build. have u notice about ever 2 weeks ppl complain about a new build, hum curious. wait another week and find the next thing to complain about:P

your reticule is actually quite unsteady when you run, and hitting 1 node on a guy when doing 152 KPH with lasers for the full duration is very hard - jumpjetting lets you aim very stable on the other hand and overcome this. this benefits light mechs in good ways, but it also makes jump sniping for heavies remain very viable and easy.

Most importantly it would kill 2 birds with 1 stone. Jumpjets would be useful for what is intended - eveasion and manuever, and they would be much more fun and immersive if the shake/power created was well done. the whole jump imho needs to feel more forceful than it currently does, we are launching up to 90tons into the air, something not easily undertaken.

[P e n u m b r a]

if its super viable and easy why don't you accept his offer of snipers vs close range and see how well you do. its not fun at all if the game is just brain dead close range rush, not everyone wants to play that game all the time. There is all ready wobble on take off how many more penalties do you want for a ranged fighter to put up with.

Edited by Le0yo, 25 February 2013 - 10:53 AM.

[Darkblood]

Hedonism Robot, on 22 February 2013 - 10:27 AM, said:

I don't think this is really necessary. The jumpjets give people an advantage to running medium weight/heavy snipers over assaults. Assaults have the benefit of 6 ppc's to blast you with they don't really need jump jets. The only mech that might be a little over the top with jump sniping is the cataphract, but then again he is paying 5 tons extra weight for all the jump jets to do this.

Yeah? Wait for the Highlander then (and others eventually)

[blinkin]

on the ground running your reticle is only steady if your are running on flat ground (COMPLETELY FLAT). bumps disrupt aim based on the speed you are running and the size of the bump. any fall of more than a few meters completely throws off the aim from your arms.

jump jets provide a smooth steady acceleration. allowing you to line up shots.

i have a jenner with jump jets and an ERPPC. my jenner goes 142kph. i have used the jump jets before to lift away from terrain and line up shots. it makes these shots amazingly easy.

Le0yo, on 25 February 2013 - 10:48 AM, said:

There is all ready wobble on take off how many more penalties do you want for a ranged fighter to put up with.

WHAT? i stick fairly exclusively to jump jet mechs. most of my mechs are also close range brawlers. i would have noticed if JJ adversely effected my aim in any way. there is no wobble. the only time your aim might be effected is on a rough landing and those can be easily mitigated with well timed JJ bursts.

again like i said before i have never seen anyone using poptart tactics in over 1200 matches (since open beta). that likely means that your "legitimate vital tactic" is at best rare. the closest thing i have seen to this tactic here is LRM boats jumping up to fire a volley.

i find it unlikely that snipers in general will suffer any at all.

i started out with a catapult that had a 375 engine and went 93kph BASE. it had 4x SRM6 that fired in tight clusters:

• they limited engine size. i L2P.
  
• they increased spread on SRM. i L2P.
  
• they added missile doors. i L2P. (then they allowed me to open the missile doors manually)
  
• they nerfed jump jets so that they were no longer useful for hopping terrain. i L2P. (thank god they got that figured out)
  
• if they add cockpit shake to JJ, i will L2P.

every tactic in this game has had at least a few patch changes that required some major adaptation. you are terrified of cockpit shake while using equipment designed solely for mobility. <-L2P

[keith]

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 25 February 2013 - 10:46 AM, said:

your reticule is actually quite unsteady when you run, and hitting 1 node on a guy when doing 152 KPH with lasers for the full duration is very hard - jumpjetting lets you aim very stable on the other hand and overcome this. this benefits light mechs in good ways, but it also makes jump sniping for heavies remain very viable and easy.

Most importantly it would kill 2 birds with 1 stone. Jumpjets would be useful for what is intended - eveasion and manuever, and they would be much more fun and immersive if the shake/power created was well done. the whole jump imho needs to feel more forceful than it currently does, we are launching up to 90tons into the air, something not easily undertaken.

only reason u can't hit 1 node is because u are going 150 kph. the reason ppl hit while jump is because of the wep type they decide to use. ppc/guass are direct hit, if they used laser would be a different story. sorry i'm done with this thread. hope pgi don't listen to ppl who go wahh the FOTM killed me.

[Corvus Antaka]

keith, on 25 February 2013 - 12:16 PM, said:

only reason u can't hit 1 node is because u are going 150 kph. the reason ppl hit while jump is because of the wep type they decide to use. ppc/guass are direct hit, if they used laser would be a different story. sorry i'm done with this thread. hope pgi don't listen to ppl who go wahh the FOTM killed me.

Sorry but no. The spider can use his jumpjets very effectively to keep 3 lasers on target and 1 node while jumping.

[Mechteric]

Mechwarrior Living Legends did this at one point and it definitely helped. You could still jump snipe but you had to wait to fire until you were on the way down, which meant you had to jump higher and expose yourself more to effectively get pinpoint shots off. The tradeoff would be that the height/distance that mechs can jump should increase probably to 50% to 100% further than currently do.

[Corvus Antaka]

CapperDeluxe, on 25 February 2013 - 01:19 PM, said:

Mechwarrior Living Legends did this at one point and it definitely helped. You could still jump snipe but you had to wait to fire until you were on the way down, which meant you had to jump higher and expose yourself more to effectively get pinpoint shots off. The tradeoff would be that the height/distance that mechs can jump should increase probably to 50% to 100% further than currently do.

Yeah it makes me think too of flying in an airplane. The shake & feeling of force would add immersion, and the only drawback would be more difficulty with aiming while using the jets. While brawlers currently are ok due to maps, when you start looking at alpine brawlers will crumple to snipers very readily due to range disadvantages.

[blinkin]

Ibrahim al Arkab Hatomoto, on 26 February 2013 - 11:01 AM, said:

Fixed that for ya.

i am confused about why that change matters.

[CutterWolf]

keith, on 24 February 2013 - 01:16 PM, said:

lets ad shake every time a mech takes a step. thats ever .5 to .75 sec. lets add shake ever time u turn, u know a 35 ton mech with gryos turning is not a simple thing to move. REALISM is not the best thing. lets leave in part of the range game instead of having it all run into 3-400m range, that is not fun.

Keith has it right!! So you guys think its ok for a mech to run 130kph over, up, down and threw all kinds of terrain and have no shake and perfect aim but it not for someone jump jetting? Ya that's make zero since people, and I don't see a single one of you poptart haters saying anything about making it harder to hit a jump jetting mechs but your all about nerfing them. That's called being a hypocrite.

Edited by CutterWolf, 26 February 2013 - 10:34 PM.

[CutterWolf]

blinkin, on 25 February 2013 - 12:12 PM, said:

on the ground running your reticle is only steady if your are running on flat ground (COMPLETELY FLAT). bumps disrupt aim based on the speed you are running and the size of the bump. any fall of more than a few meters completely throws off the aim from your arms.

jump jets provide a smooth steady acceleration. allowing you to line up shots.

i have a jenner with jump jets and an ERPPC. my jenner goes 142kph. i have used the jump jets before to lift away from terrain and line up shots. it makes these shots amazingly easy.


WHAT? i stick fairly exclusively to jump jet mechs. most of my mechs are also close range brawlers. i would have noticed if JJ adversely effected my aim in any way. there is no wobble. the only time your aim might be effected is on a rough landing and those can be easily mitigated with well timed JJ bursts.

again like i said before i have never seen anyone using poptart tactics in over 1200 matches (since open beta). that likely means that your "legitimate vital tactic" is at best rare. the closest thing i have seen to this tactic here is LRM boats jumping up to fire a volley.

i find it unlikely that snipers in general will suffer any at all.

i started out with a catapult that had a 375 engine and went 93kph BASE. it had 4x SRM6 that fired in tight clusters:

• they limited engine size. i L2P.
  
• they increased spread on SRM. i L2P.
  
• they added missile doors. i L2P. (then they allowed me to open the missile doors manually)
  
• they nerfed jump jets so that they were no longer useful for hopping terrain. i L2P. (thank god they got that figured out)
  
• if they add cockpit shake to JJ, i will L2P.

every tactic in this game has had at least a few patch changes that required some major adaptation. you are terrified of cockpit shake while using equipment designed solely for mobility. <-L2P

I'll use your own word(s) here. You and everyone else can "L2P" against jump snipers. It's not hard, they are easy to hit and if you "L2P" it's not an issue at all.

[blinkin]

CutterWolf, on 26 February 2013 - 10:41 PM, said:

I'll use your own word(s) here. You and everyone else can "L2P" against jump snipers. It's not hard, they are easy to hit and if you "L2P" it's not an issue at all.

this was a direct response to Le0yo. every time some one disagreed with him he would spam L2P.

my point is every mech build i have ever made has been nerfed in some major way at some point. my point is i am not saying poptarts need a nerf since i have never seen one in the course of well over 1200 matches (i have repeated this point several times in the course of my statements).

none of my tactics have been sacred and protected in the course of patching. i have not complained about any of these nerfs, with exception to when they briefly made jump jets completely useless for jumping. why should a lame tactic like this be protected.

i don't want a nerf. i want a little more realism to bring this game further back in line with a simulator. i see no reason to deny this small change that would add to immersion just to protect a stupid tactic that almost no one uses.

there are plenty of other ways to use long range direct fire weapons. most other games don't give jump packs to their snipers. so like i said before find some new tactics and L2P.

Edited by blinkin, 26 February 2013 - 11:24 PM.

[Rathverge]

Damocles69, on 22 February 2013 - 12:36 PM, said:

Op... plus 9000 internet points to you sir

Im going to bid 9001 points Bob.

[CutterWolf]

blinkin, on 26 February 2013 - 11:20 PM, said:

this was a direct response to Le0yo. every time some one disagreed with him he would spam L2P.

my point is every mech build i have ever made has been nerfed in some major way at some point. my point is i am not saying poptarts need a nerf since i have never seen one in the course of well over 1200 matches (i have repeated this point several times in the course of my statements).

none of my tactics have been sacred and protected in the course of patching. i have not complained about any of these nerfs, with exception to when they briefly made jump jets completely useless for jumping. why should a lame tactic like this be protected.

i don't want a nerf. i want a little more realism to bring this game further back in line with a simulator. i see no reason to deny this small change that would add to immersion just to protect a stupid tactic that almost no one uses.

there are plenty of other ways to use long range direct fire weapons. most other games don't give jump packs to their snipers. so like i said before find some new tactics and L2P.

Well if no one is using it then why change it? Again L2P, it's a tactic just like all the other tactics out there and they all can be countered with "little" effort.

[Skyscream Sapphire]

Yes, excellent idea. It addresses a current problem with the meta (those of you that don't think it's an issue need to up your ELO or drop in an 8 man, the brawl as we knew it is dead) while adding realism and immersion and not affecting jump jets' intended use. It apparently even appeals to the table top guys and their -3 penalty!

Turning the shake of as soon as the thrust is stopped still lets lights fire in the air and gives some opportunity to jump snipe, but with less time to aim and/or a more exposed sniper. I think that's a fair trade off!

[CutterWolf]

Skyscream Sapphire, on 27 February 2013 - 06:46 AM, said:

Yes, excellent idea. It addresses a current problem with the meta (those of you that don't think it's an issue need to up your ELO or drop in an 8 man, the brawl as we knew it is dead) while adding realism and immersion and not affecting jump jets' intended use. It apparently even appeals to the table top guys and their -3 penalty!

Turning the shake of as soon as the thrust is stopped still lets lights fire in the air and gives some opportunity to jump snipe, but with less time to aim and/or a more exposed sniper. I think that's a fair trade off!

No it's not. I take it you must be with the rest of the guys here who apparently can't aim. You do realize that a jumping mech is easier to hit that one running around on the ground? Why is this? Because its path is totally predictable something a mech who is traveling over terrain is not. Realism is not an issue here, the whole game is not realistic at all gee. Also, hows this for realism: Check out the M1 Abrams firing system for the main gun and then come tell me how my mech jump jetting can't do the same?

Edited by CutterWolf, 27 February 2013 - 07:24 AM.

[blinkin]

CutterWolf, on 27 February 2013 - 05:36 AM, said:

Well if no one is using it then why change it? Again L2P, it's a tactic just like all the other tactics out there and they all can be countered with "little" effort.

L2Read.

blinkin, on 26 February 2013 - 11:20 PM, said:

this was a direct response to Le0yo. every time some one disagreed with him he would spam L2P.

my point is every mech build i have ever made has been nerfed in some major way at some point. my point is i am not saying poptarts need a nerf since i have never seen one in the course of well over 1200 matches (i have repeated this point several times in the course of my statements).

none of my tactics have been sacred and protected in the course of patching. i have not complained about any of these nerfs, with exception to when they briefly made jump jets completely useless for jumping. why should a lame tactic like this be protected.

i don't want a nerf. i want a little more realism to bring this game further back in line with a simulator. i see no reason to deny this small change that would add to immersion just to protect a stupid tactic that almost no one uses.

there are plenty of other ways to use long range direct fire weapons. most other games don't give jump packs to their snipers. so like i said before find some new tactics and L2P.

Edited by blinkin, 27 February 2013 - 11:02 AM.

[blinkin]

CutterWolf, on 27 February 2013 - 07:05 AM, said:

No it's not. I take it you must be with the rest of the guys here who apparently can't aim. You do realize that a jumping mech is easier to hit that one running around on the ground? Why is this? Because its path is totally predictable something a mech who is traveling over terrain is not. Realism is not an issue here, the whole game is not realistic at all gee. Also, hows this for realism: Check out the M1 Abrams firing system for the main gun and then come tell me how my mech jump jetting can't do the same?

if we had firing stabalization like most modern tech no one would use anything besides lasers. there would be no point. "because we have it IRL" is not a valid argument in the battletech universe.

[Skyscream Sapphire]

CutterWolf, on 27 February 2013 - 07:05 AM, said:

No it's not. I take it you must be with the rest of the guys here who apparently can't aim. You do realize that a jumping mech is easier to hit that one running around on the ground? Why is this? Because its path is totally predictable something a mech who is traveling over terrain is not. Realism is not an issue here, the whole game is not realistic at all gee. Also, hows this for realism: Check out the M1 Abrams firing system for the main gun and then come tell me how my mech jump jetting can't do the same?

Yes it is. I take you must be with the rest of the guys here who apparently can't maneuver their mech? You do realize that a jumping mech is easier to snipe from than one running across the ground? Why is this? Because its cockpit is totally stable something a mech who is traveling over terrain is not.

Am I doing right?

Did you really just compare the firing system of an M1 Abrams tank, braced against the mass of the entire earth, with that of something flying in mid air? I will indeed tell you why that's not the same: Newton's third law of motion. Must I expound?

What I do agree with you on is the "realism" part. While this game is sim-ish, it's a ficticious 3050 universe so at no point should the simulation aspects overtake the gameplay. However, this idea actually improves game play by promoting more diverse equipment options. The fact that it adds to immersion through "realism" is just a bonus.