80 replies to this topic

[Sug]

Just wondering if there were any Commando or Jenner pilots in the Light Top 25 or was it just straight Ravens.

[JokerVictor]

Wispsy ran a jenner, he's the only one I'm aware of using anything different. Dropped with about 20 of them, they were all in ravens.

Says something, eh?

[Naelobo]

Half of mine were in mechs other than the 3L. However, the 3L is just the fastest and the best light there is at the moment. FOTM. If PGI keeps this up MWO is going to start getting doomsayers.

[Slab Squathrust]

JokerVictor, on 25 February 2013 - 10:16 AM, said:

Wispsy ran a jenner, he's the only one I'm aware of using anything different. Dropped with about 20 of them, they were all in ravens.

Says something, eh?

Yeah unfortunately it does. I didn't play at all this weekend because I knew whenever I dropped, I'd see multiple 3l's. Now we will see if PGI decides to do anything about it. ECM may have looked good in their play testing, but just like a clinical trial, when you release to the general public you see unintended side effects that only occur with a much larger sample size.

[Kobold]

Hopefully PGI got a lot of good data from this.

[Tennex]

all it does is say what we've been saying this whole time. its already been so long of them ignoring it. i feel like even compelling evidence like this won't make them change it.

[Xenroth]

Talimar1 used a Spider all the time if I am right

[Corvus Antaka]

I hope this showed PGI the ECM issue, as the weekend was filled with ECM mechs everywhere, but the 3L was definitely the mech of choice.

[Voridan Atreides]

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 25 February 2013 - 10:36 AM, said:

I hope this showed PGI the ECM issue, as the weekend was filled with ECM mechs everywhere, but the 3L was definitely the mech of choice.

No doubt. The 3L was the mech I saw the most and it is not hard to see why. Hopefully PGI got some good data.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Saw a lot of 3L's as well.

If Broceratops write up was correct, it really didn't matter what you ran as long as you got in there and tagged with an mlas a bunch of people before getting blown up.

But I do hope that PGI starts to acknowledge the terribly broken meta-game ECM has created.

[Sug]

JokerVictor, on 25 February 2013 - 10:16 AM, said:

Wispsy ran a jenner, he's the only one I'm aware of using anything different.

Oh yeah. I ran into him a couple times. Most people know him as That Annoying Jenner.

[hammerreborn]

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 25 February 2013 - 10:36 AM, said:

I hope this showed PGI the ECM issue, as the weekend was filled with ECM mechs everywhere, but the 3L was definitely the mech of choice.

Did it show an ECM issue or just a 3L issue? Those are two intertwined yet distinct things. If ECM was the real issue there would also be a bunch of people saying they used 2Ds or Spider 5Ds as well, and all the assaults would have been D-DCs.

3Ls are a perfect storm of balance/netcode issues that just makes them stand out so much.

[Mercules]

hammerreborn, on 25 February 2013 - 11:02 AM, said:

Did it show an ECM issue or just a 3L issue? Those are two intertwined yet distinct things. If ECM was the real issue there would also be a bunch of people saying they used 2Ds or Spider 5Ds as well, and all the assaults would have been D-DCs.

3Ls are a perfect storm of balance/netcode issues that just makes them stand out so much.

Actually, it is Streaks and ECM. 3Ls have a really good balance between Streaks, ECM, Modules, speed, armor, and backup weapons. I didn't have time to play or I might have gotten up there in my Commando.... then again it was a 2D so we are still talking ECM.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

hammerreborn, on 25 February 2013 - 11:02 AM, said:

Did it show an ECM issue or just a 3L issue? Those are two intertwined yet distinct things. If ECM was the real issue there would also be a bunch of people saying they used 2Ds or Spider 5Ds as well, and all the assaults would have been D-DCs.

3Ls are a perfect storm of balance/netcode issues that just makes them stand out so much.

A lot of D-DC's were around in the Assault classes as well, they were definitely being used by the top 5 guys when I ran into them.

As for the Raven vs Spiders/Commandos. Well that's just a duh moment. Because Raven's have Streaks, the second most fubar thing in this game after ECM so that gets rid of the Spider. Ontop of that Raven's are pretty much as fast and have more armor than the Commando and Spider which also goes towards them being number one.

If it wasn't for Cicada's being on the bottom range of tonnage for Medium's I'd wager you'd have seen a lot of them. Can you imagine of a Cent or Huchie had ECM?

Edited by Nicholas Carlyle, 25 February 2013 - 11:10 AM.

[Mister Blastman]

Arkikim, on 25 February 2013 - 10:30 AM, said:

Half of mine were in mechs other than the 3L. However, the 3L is just the fastest and the best light there is at the moment. FOTM. If PGI keeps this up MWO is going to start getting doomsayers.

The _only_ reason the 3L is the "best" light is ECM. No other reason.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Mister Blastman, on 25 February 2013 - 11:10 AM, said:

The _only_ reason the 3L is the "best" light is ECM. No other reason.

Well it's a combination of 3 things really. ECM, Streaks and Hit Box. But ECM is the biggest factor for sure.

[hammerreborn]

Mercules, on 25 February 2013 - 11:08 AM, said:

Actually, it is Streaks and ECM. 3Ls have a really good balance between Streaks, ECM, Modules, speed, armor, and backup weapons. I didn't have time to play or I might have gotten up there in my Commando.... then again it was a 2D so we are still talking ECM.

Exactly. No one cares about an ECM raven with an srm6, it's the perfect storm that's the issue.

ECM makes it stronger than average against LRMs
ECM then makes streaks more effective against other streaks
Streaks make lights cry

Mediums+ laugh at streaks
Mediums+ can't hit ravens due to hitbox/netcode issues
Mediums+ cry

Quote

As for the Raven vs Spiders. Well that's just a duh moment. Because Raven's have Streaks, the second most fubar thing in this game after ECM. Ontop of that Raven's are pretty much as fast and have more armor.

If it wasn't for Cicada's being on the bottom range of tonnage for Medium's I'd wager you'd have seen a lot of them. Can you imagine of a Cent or Huchie had ECM?

So Spiders < Ravens because Ravens have streaks
But Cicadas < Cents/Hunch because Cicada's low weight
Cents/Hunchs (with ECM) > cicadas because of high weight? (no, because they'd use streaks).

ECM + Streaks are the horriblest combination of items in the game. Nerfing one won't fix the other, which is why all the remove ECM threads are bad. The combination of ECM + Streaks is what's breaking the game balance wise on the most part, and needs to be shattered (basically, like the suggestions that if you have ECM you can't use streaks).

[silentD11]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 25 February 2013 - 11:09 AM, said:

A lot of D-DC's were around in the Assault classes as well, they were definitely being used by the top 5 guys when I ran into them.

As for the Raven vs Spiders/Commandos. Well that's just a duh moment. Because Raven's have Streaks, the second most fubar thing in this game after ECM so that gets rid of the Spider. Ontop of that Raven's are pretty much as fast and have more armor than the Commando and Spider which also goes towards them being number one.

If it wasn't for Cicada's being on the bottom range of tonnage for Medium's I'd wager you'd have seen a lot of them. Can you imagine of a Cent or Huchie had ECM?

The D-DC having three missile points already put it ahead of the other Atlas options even before ECM in many ways. Outside of people going for founders bonus D-DC was the most used Atlas prior to ECM as well. You don't see that many ECM commandos because the commando wasn't as good as the Jenner or the Raven before ECM and the 3L was the best raven variant anyways. You don't see ECM cicada's because it wasn't all that great of a medium before ECM and that hasn't changed.

There's more things that were great about the 3L and the D-DC than just ECM. The same can be said about the gausscat/ac20 cat, it's not inherently the weapons but the way convergence and the target profile of the chassis worked which makes it so good, which is why they are still the go to heavy for dual ballastics.

[Talimar1]

I piloted a Spider 5D for the entire tournament, before quiting around 9 on sunday night, satisfied with my 8th place finish It was much harder even to grind in that than in anything else because kills count and when going against mostly ravens in the tournament, that does make a difference. At least now though I have a 50% survival rate with an encounter with a lone Raven-3L, compared to about 25% before the tournament. Ravens are so OP. I had to play an absurd number of games to stay in the top 10, and when your average match score is much lower due to not having the same damage done and kills and base capping not counting much, and when everyone else is playing FOTM and absurd high damage builds, the tournament became not just a grind but a true test of skill. It was also a grind though. Regardless, I think I truly can say I am the best Spider 5D pilot around.

[Bishop Steiner]

After 7-8 months in this game, the only one I would bank on is Wispsy.

Your lives... he claims them!