139 replies to this topic

[Deathlike]

Never mind... that build is awful. The convergence on the LL is bad (arms work independently of torso, which makes for poor convergence).

[Dan Nashe]

Still a great thread for ideas.
:-)

[Oddmund]

So sad there are no dragon builds on this list... Does this mean no one runs dragons in RHOD?

[Protection]

dankith, on 10 April 2013 - 05:52 AM, said:

So sad there are no dragon builds on this list... Does this mean no one runs dragons in RHOD?

Not really, Dragons are often considered one of the worst designs in the game. Most builds have less firepower than rival Hunchbacks and Centurions, while taking the precious heavy slot - that might otherwise be used on a K2 Catapult or 3D Cataphract. Dragons are really an odd man out.

On the few occasions any team tried running a Dragon, it turned out to be unequivocally the weak point of the lineup - and the Achilles Heel of the entire team. Even in tonnage based matchmaking, it doesn't really have a place - since Catapults offer a massive upgrade for only 5 tons, and Hunchies and Centurions can do the same job, only even faster, for less tonnage.

[Ravennus]

Protection, on 13 April 2013 - 04:26 PM, said:

Not really, Dragons are often considered one of the worst designs in the game. Most builds have less firepower than rival Hunchbacks and Centurions, while taking the precious heavy slot - that might otherwise be used on a K2 Catapult or 3D Cataphract. Dragons are really an odd man out.

On the few occasions any team tried running a Dragon, it turned out to be unequivocally the weak point of the lineup - and the Achilles Heel of the entire team. Even in tonnage based matchmaking, it doesn't really have a place - since Catapults offer a massive upgrade for only 5 tons, and Hunchies and Centurions can do the same job, only even faster, for less tonnage.

Interesting. I wasn't aware there was a medium mech that could use a Gauss Rifle (4 tons ammo), 4 MLAS, 13 DHS and still run at 101kph. Oh, and with 375+ armor.

Or mount 2x ERPPC, 20 DHS, 2 MLAS and run just as fast.

Could someone show me a medium mech with these builds, please? Thanks.


Side Note: I am surprised that the HBK-4P is not more popular. With the introduction of HSR, it is probably one of the nastiest light hunters out there, so long as the pilot can aim.
It's also zippy and maneuverable, with a 45+ damage alpha that is pinpoint accurate. Perfect for headshots and coring CTs from behind in 1 or 2 alphas.

With SRMs being nerfed recently, the 4P is even more attractive.

[Gidonihah]

2 Weeks of something being stronger doesnt automatically include something in this list, Balistic state rewind is coming up and might have equal effects on other hunchbacks.

And ya Dragons are slightly heavier armed than mediums, that doesn't justify using them.. believe me we tried.

The fact of the matter is that the Dragon has two issues 1:Obnoxious CenterTorso hit box and 2: Extremely tough competition in the Heavy slot.

[Coolmoo]

Can anyone tell me if this is a good ILYA MUROMETS build?
Using 3 PPC 3 Machine guns for when their armor is down and 1 AMS for those pesky missiles
using a 340 XL Engine to get distance while using PPC as the ER PPC was to hot for my liking

[Goregrimm]

I play a similar Gaussaphract but I dropped a ton of ammo for a fourth medium laser. I love my lasers for when the flies start swarming.

I have a similar Atlas D-DC to the PPC/Gauss build but I think I am running LL instead. I may try the PPCs. I had not used them for a long time and it seems they have recieved a boost since last I used them.

Thanks for the great resourse. As a father I do not have time to experiment. I prefer to web build. Someone else can do the R&D, I'll do the mad piloting.

[Mattiator]

Ravennus, on 14 April 2013 - 12:28 AM, said:

Interesting. I wasn't aware there was a medium mech that could use a Gauss Rifle (4 tons ammo), 4 MLAS, 13 DHS and still run at 101kph. Oh, and with 375+ armor.

Or mount 2x ERPPC, 20 DHS, 2 MLAS and run just as fast.

Being one of the biggest proponents of Dragons over at the Eridani Light Pony, I figure I should respond to this. The Dragon occupies an awkward position in the current lineup of 'Mechs. It's got the lowest possible tonnage for a Heavy BattleMech, a hardpoint layout that forces players to diversify weapon loadouts, and a long-standing negative stigma from months of neglect.

The big issues most teams have with the Dragon in competitive play are as follows:

- The Dragon is slotted into the exceptionally competitive Heavy chassis slot. The Catapult has long been the Heavy of choice for it's ability to boat weapons exceptionally well coupled with easy aiming and acceptable speed for brawls. The Cataphract has recently surface as an excellent PPC sniper unit when utilizing jumpjets. The JagerMech, the new kid on the block, has astonishing capability for ballistic-focused designs, ranging from the simple 2xAC/20 designs to more radical quad-gun 'mechs.

- The current meta values firepower and armor as the prime capabilities for a heavy chassis, neither of which the Dragon is exceptionally good at. The Dragon's speed is generally not seen as enough of a defense against snipers and heavy brawlers. The current RHoD rules require teams to have equal numbers of each weight group, resulting in the Dragon often being seen as a 'waste of a slot' when compared to other higher-damage heavy designs.

- Most current maps are relatively constrained, limiting the opportunities for Dragons to show off their mobility and forcing them into a brawl, something the chassis is not particularly well-suited for.

- The role of light-hunting, long seen as the prime role for the Dragon, has been made difficult to accomplish due to aiming issues with the ballistic-focused Dragons, although the new B.S.R updates may help in this regard. The relative inability of the Dragon to focus on lasers and Streaks, the classic weapon of light-hunter chassis, has kept it out of this role.

- The Dragon also has a long-standing negative stigma within the competitive community, generally leaving it on the sidelines when teams are experimenting with new strategies.

As it stands, these combinations of factors are what have doomed the Dragon to it's current state within the RHoD. While I myself feel the chassis has a great deal of worth, in the current competitive playstyle it simply does not have a niche that is not better filled by other heavy 'Mechs. While it is entirely possible that the Dragon will find it's niche, it's too early to tell. Ballistic State Rewind has definately reinvigorated my love of the chassis, making it oh-so-much easier to shoot with those big arm guns. Larger maps and 12v12 may just be the push the Dragon needs to get a foothold in the competitive scene.

Believe me, I'm praying for that too!

[Lege]

I can't bring myself to buy a dragon in live. The nose is so huge, you can't miss it. They get cored easier than any other mech. They don't pack the firepower of a k2, much less a cataphract. My running joke with dragons is I tried to miss their nose, but I hit it anyways. If you want maneuverability, play a light.

[Protection]

I will say this about the Dragon -- the 4xPPC design (I don't know who invented it, but we've seen Karian Empire use them often) isn't terrible. Especially the 4PPC flame. It is basically a mobile long range sniper that is fast enough to hide and cool off after a couple of shots. Still questionable if it can compare to a poptart sniper though.

[SodaFizz]

Training Instructor, on 26 February 2013 - 03:10 AM, said:

Hah, I've been using the 4xPPC K2 for awhile, especially while I was mastering the variant before they improved PPCs. Always enjoyed it more than the gauss cat. Mine is slightly slower, with a 280xl, but has one additional heat sink.

Also, it's not called the pepsicat, as that makes zero sense.

Call it the lightning cat, the Thorcat, the Odincat, etc, as it rains lightning bolts down on its enemies.

Umm...PPC CAT (P..P..C) say it real fast there you nordic douche nozzle.

[Training Instructor]

SodaFizz, on 20 April 2013 - 10:25 PM, said:

Umm...PPC CAT (P..P..C) say it real fast there you nordic douche nozzle.

I tried saying it really fast, and the only way I could make it sound like pepsi was to fake the accent of a spastic hipster with a lisp.

Oh wait, now I understand why you call it the pepsi cat.

Sorry, I enunciate when I speak.

[Skadi]

Protection, on 19 April 2013 - 06:57 PM, said:

I will say this about the Dragon -- the 4xPPC design (I don't know who invented it, but we've seen Karian Empire use them often) isn't terrible. Especially the 4PPC flame. It is basically a mobile long range sniper that is fast enough to hide and cool off after a couple of shots. Still questionable if it can compare to a poptart sniper though.

Been using the 4 PPC flame since it came out... although the 4PPC 3D is better for competitive play.

[Archon Adam Steiner]

So many dull boat-builds... almost painful. I truly believe that there are valid alternative and arguably more 'original' options, and having an enemy commander not instantly recognize one's machine and therefore not know how to immediately counter it is useful. I've done a number of tournament drops, and I've seen it work. It's about all the reason I have left to believe tha this isn't going to just be 'BoatWarrior Online'.

Thanks for compiling the list and keeping it updated; always good to know what the average pilot is going to reach for.

[SixstringSamurai]

Protection, on 25 February 2013 - 09:13 PM, said:

Yeah, I'm not insulting you Arcadian, but the undefeated Kaos team would probably disagree.

What're you guys running at Atlas these days?

Actually you got the build close, but wrong, the armor isn't stripped so far and the ammo count is too high.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...b2a8c46d288ae43

I got one from Chix pretty similar to that and haven't been complaining. (Think it actually has 4 tons AC20?)

Though given the state of SRM damage you might want to invest in an extra ton at the cost of leg armor but used right it wouldn't be that big of an issue.

I was also glad to see the UAC5+LL build was also wrong. (cause we use something like it)

And our Giant Killer 3L isn't up there ( you got really close though)

Edited by SixStringSamurai, 20 April 2013 - 11:50 PM.

[Kamelkaze]

Is this the thread due all newbies drive the same common builds and flame me that i play uncommon?

Edited by Kamelkaze, 21 April 2013 - 12:41 AM.

[SixstringSamurai]

Kamelkaze, on 21 April 2013 - 12:39 AM, said:

Is this the thread due all newbies drive the same common builds and flame me that i play uncommon?

It's for competitive mech builds, as in leagues outside of PGI run tournaments. It's a different kind of team vs team environment in which builds are often standardized by whatever that particular team thinks is best. Has nothing to do with public or 4v4.

[Warskull]

Arrachtas, on 20 April 2013 - 11:41 PM, said:

So many dull boat-builds... almost painful. I truly believe that there are valid alternative and arguably more 'original' options, and having an enemy commander not instantly recognize one's machine and therefore not know how to immediately counter it is useful. I've done a number of tournament drops, and I've seen it work. It's about all the reason I have left to believe tha this isn't going to just be 'BoatWarrior Online'.

Thanks for compiling the list and keeping it updated; always good to know what the average pilot is going to reach for.

The whole rogue mech design sounds nice as a theory, but in reality it doesn't pan out. The players at this level can build and optimize mechs, they know the variants, and the know the hard points. They will be able to guess where your weapons are and if you run XL pretty easily.

You are a johnny type, so you have to watch out. You can get caught in the trap of running an offbeat mech for the sake of running an offbeat mech. There is room to play around with mechs, but at high level play you have to keep things top tier.

These are also competitive builds, the average player tends to have an animosity towards the competitive community. The pub meta will aim more towards mechs that get high returns for mediocre effort.

[Archon Adam Steiner]

This isn't some ego, "I want to be a snow-flake" thing. Innovation and creativity are what advances... well, anything. If one can design an effective and unconventional design, it is time (and effort) well spent.

The implicit suggestion that I am reading, that things are not 'top tier' they aren't 'copy and paste' builds, is a bit far-fetched.