131 replies to this topic

[blazarian]

They should just buff everything on MG and decrease the ammo per ton significantly. So the requirement would be slots and tonnage for heat-free firepower.

[CrashieJ]

yeah, being a 4 MG spider is fun and all, but it falls short of doing anything worthwhile.

PGI unveiled the spider as a recon/harassment vehicle; but I'm not really seeing the harassment when everything can pretty much outgun, outrun, and outkill you.

+! to Machinegun arrays

[Larth]

If they made gyros or engines critable, CT engine slots, then MG's would be fine. Do like the old games, gyro gone, can't move for fear of falling over instantly. So yeah, I agree up their damage a little or make having the crit seeker worthwhile by giving us the big crits that matter (which I suppose after the bigger fish to fry will happen eventually).

As for flamers, extend the range like the TT version is about the only thing I can think of. Until destructible objects are implemented (if ever and probably to a limited degree), so we can set fires to wooded areas creating smoke and clearing terrain, they aren't really a threat.

Sadly every weapon has a purpose and a time, and for the MG and the flamer, well their purpose is missing (i.e. no trees to burn or infantry to mow down/primary crits to seek) so they are kind of pointless. I can understand seeing the long term big picture, but unfortunately the here and now they don't do squat.

[John MatriX82]

I think that these are anti-infantry weapons that shouldn't ever even be in the game at all. I'm for totally remove them all, although certain mechs would be even more useless as they are now (cicada 3C and that spider with ballistic slots).

[Larth]

John MatriX82, on 25 February 2013 - 11:49 PM, said:

I think that these are anti-infantry weapons that shouldn't ever even be in the game at all. I'm for totally remove them all, although certain mechs would be even more useless as they are now (cicada 3C and that spider with ballistic slots).

Oh just turn the spider variant into a Hollander...mount a guass rifle, you know you want to.

Edited by Larth, 26 February 2013 - 12:11 AM.

[RowanE83]

I like the new machine guns. Effective in some builds and very amusing.

[Alvor]

To summarize if using Canon BT/MW:
The Machine Gun should do 2Damage (Just like the AC/2) with 90m Range & 0.5 ton ammo lots.
The Flamer (Maybe fireballs instead of flame thrower) should do 2Damage with 90m Range & have burn effect on trees/buildings making lasting heat/smoke cover time.


All this information was taken from http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Main_Page which is one of the best resources for Battletech information.

FYI TT range is 30m per 1.

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Machine_Gun
Machine Gun is the quintessential anti-infantry weapon, issuing a stream of bullets at a high rate of fire to cut down opposing soldiers. Vehicular-scale machine guns mounted on BattleMechs can lay low entire platoons in just a few passes thanks to their high rate of fire, though they are more commonly found on Combat Vehicles and ProtoMechs.^[3] These weapons are much heavier than those typically carried by infantry, but can be used by them when placed on a static mount, where they are called Support Machine Guns.^[4] Battle Armor can also carry machine guns, typically upgraded versions of infantry-support weapons, which can rival their larger vehicular-scale cousins.^[5]
Ammo Handling BattleMechs and vehicles (massing more than 5 tons) allot Machine Gun ammunition in half-ton (100 "round") as well as full ton (200 "round") lots. Powered Armor (of all types, including BattleArmor) and vehicles massing less than 5 tons are alloted ammo in 5 kg lots that are consumed in a single "round" or turn of fire.

Machine Gun
Production information
Type Ballistic (Anti-Infantry)
Tech Base Clan / Inner Sphere(IS)
Year Availability Pre-spaceflight
Technical specifications
Heat 0
Damage 2
Min Range 0
Short Range 1
Medium Range 2
Long Range 3
Tons
Clan = .25
IS = .5
Critical Slots 1
Ammo Per Ton 200


http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Flamer
Flamer taps into a BattleMech's reactor to produce heat in the form of a plasma release.^[3] An extremely short-ranged weapon, the Flamer is devastating against infantry, however damage done against other 'Mechs and vehicles is negligible, though it can raise the enemy unit's heat levels. The Flamer is also often used to set ambient objects such as trees aflame, making it useful for burning forests or cities in order to slow the enemy down or cover friendly movements. A clear example of such is theFirestarter BattleMech.

Flamer
Production information
Type Energy (Heat-Inducing, Anti-Infantry)
Tech Base Clan / Inner Sphere
Year Availability 2025
Technical specifications
Heat 3
Damage 2
Min Range n/a
Short Range 1
Medium Range 2
Long Range 3
Tons
Clan = 0.5
Inner Sphere = 1
Critical Slots 1
Ammo Per Ton n/a


http://www.sarna.net/wiki/AC-2
Autocannon 2 is a direct-fire ballistic weapon, firing HEAP (High-Explosive Armor-Piercing) rounds at targets either singly or in bursts.
Different manufacturers and models of autocannons have different calibers (25mm-203mm) and rates of fire. Due to this, autocannons are grouped into generic "classes" of autocannons with common damage ratings, with Autocannon/2s having an extremely long range at the cost of having a very small damage output.

Autocannon/2
Production information
Type Ballistic (Direct Fire)
Tech Base Inner Sphere
Year Availability 2300 (TH)
Technical specifications
Heat 1
Damage 2
Min Range 4
Short Range 1-8
Medium Range 9-16
Long Range 17-24
Tons 6
Critical Slots 1
Ammo Per Ton 45

[xenoglyph]

PGI has an interesting learning process. Their first step is usually to make a huge mistake. Second step is to overreact and nerf things so badly that it's just as bad as before, but in a different way.

Here's the current testing & balancing methodology for flamers:
Stick 9 flamers on a hunchback. Proceed to chase around a noob. If you're able to do any significant damage or make the noob rage quit, the flamer has been buffed too much and must be nerfed some more.

[Xinaoen]

I don't think there's anything wrong with MGs that the addition of engine crits wouldn't cure. It'd still be a niche weapon, but that's honestly kind of appropriate imo.

[Major Derps]

Vermaxx, on 25 February 2013 - 07:50 PM, said:

Give them a cooldown, something like the AC2, maybe even do math so they do 2 damage in the same time a small laser does 3, whatever. Give them a cooldown, not automatic fire, and let them do useful damage per shot.

Hooray, finally we are getting close...Keep them continuous, but bring it's dps on par with a small laser (1dps, so each round does 1 damage), remove their crit buff, and halve the ammo. Taadaa. Don't forget people, we are talking anti-infantry machine guns, not AP gatling guns.

Flamers are intended to limit what an enemy mech can fire. Not specifically damage them, not overheat them, just limit their dps by raising the mechs heat. Therefor, I doubt they will ever be buffed, as they are working as PGI has wanted them to (IMO)

Just my opinion.

[MustrumRidcully]

Or change MGs to be an "universal slot" weapon, and decide for each variant whether some MG slots are energy, and some are ballistic slots. So the Spider and Cicadas could have two of their ballistic slots turned into MG slots. And if you want to kill Gaussapults and Whackapults, turn those MG slots into energy slots.

[HRR Mary]

Just a thought :

Weapon that damage internals on a luck roll < Weapon that does damage

Mgs and Flamers are back on the shelf, next to Nerf guns.

[jakucha]

John MatriX82, on 25 February 2013 - 11:49 PM, said:

I think that these are anti-infantry weapons that shouldn't ever even be in the game at all. I'm for totally remove them all, although certain mechs would be even more useless as they are now (cicada 3C and that spider with ballistic slots).

They are anti-infantry sure, but they're also some huge *** caliber machine guns. They should do decent damage to armor if stacked.

[John MatriX82]

jakucha, on 26 February 2013 - 04:45 AM, said:

They are anti-infantry sure, but they're also some huge *** caliber machine guns. They should do decent damage to armor if stacked.

Probably they may add a modifier that increases damage to a certain extent when you start using 2 or more of them, with a cap to 4 maximum or something like this.

[OneEyed Jack]

John MatriX82, on 25 February 2013 - 11:49 PM, said:

I think that these are anti-infantry weapons

You can think it, but you'd be wrong.

Mokey Mot, on 26 February 2013 - 02:58 AM, said:

Don't forget people, we are talking anti-infantry machine guns,

No, no we are not. They are heavy-duty, tank-busting guns designed to damage Battlemechs that just happen, by the nature of MGs, to more effective vs infantry than most other mech weapons.

Edited by OneEyed Jack, 26 February 2013 - 05:53 AM.

[HRR Mary]

just to clarify : Machine guns on Battlemechs are NOT those :




But Those :

[Kmieciu]

A tonne of AC20 ammo is capable of 140 damage.
A tonne of AC10 ammo is capable of 150 damage.
A tonne of AC5 ammo is capable of 150 damage.
A tonne of AC2 ammo is capable of 150 damage.

A tonne of MG ammo is capable of 80 damage.

Solution: Buff the MG damage twice.

HRR Mary, on 26 February 2013 - 06:15 AM, said:

just to clarify : Machine guns on Battlemechs are NOT those :




But Those :

More like this:

[Sayyid]

People MGs and Flamers are anti-Infantry weapons and thus useless in Mechwarrior Online.

[HRR Mary]

Kmieciu, on 26 February 2013 - 06:16 AM, said:

A tonne of AC20 ammo is capable of 140 damage.
A tonne of AC10 ammo is capable of 150 damage.
A tonne of AC5 ammo is capable of 150 damage.
A tonne of AC2 ammo is capable of 150 damage.

A tonne of MG ammo is capable of 80 damage.

Solution: Buff the MG damage twice.


More like this: (snip...)

Well it's essentially the same : yours is a 20mm avenger gatling, the one I pictured is the GAU 22/A 25mm gatling. But I like your pintle mount better

[KumoriMyou]

feel free to complain about working weapons that work great for me
i killed many people with the machine gun and on my one hunchback i can go head to head with an atlas and win cause my ONE flamer easily overheats it