156 replies to this topic

[SlXSlXSlX]

Aethon, on 26 February 2013 - 05:21 AM, said:

I am lying? Please explain how I am lying. You quoted me as saying that all my recent matches have been landslides, one way or the other...which is a fact. Every single match I have played in the last couple hours has been 7-1 or 8-0. I think enough people have the same experience to know I am not sitting here spewing false statistics to make my point. I do not need to.

Yes, I am calling you a liar. Just so we make that clear. Or, your ELO is grossly disproportional to your actual skill. Then your not lying, your jsut operating on a misimpression and proffering it as truth, which in many ways, still amounts to lying.

[The Exiled]

Thirdstar, on 26 February 2013 - 05:22 AM, said:

That's pretty much what I said. I said lessened, not eliminated.

not quite, you said that players ability to effect a match is lessoned (Edit, or at least that is how i read it) i claimed his ability to effect a match remains, just that the difference between the players will be more subtle, but the same player will still have a big influence, it is just what they did will not be as obvious as seeing them solo 8 players.

Edited by The Exiled, 26 February 2013 - 05:29 AM.

[PhoenixFire55]

armyof1, on 26 February 2013 - 04:38 AM, said:

I wish I had it as good as you, because what I find most boring when playing MWO are those pointless games when you're almost certain you'll either win big or lose badly within the first minute of the match. Those games I find to be pretty much a waste of time as only at least somewhat even games I think are worth playing. So yeah what ELO is trying to establish might not be what you want out of MWO, but for me that would be great as soon as it's starting to work well enough.

Just as you are tied of 8:0, 0:8 stomps now you will eventually grow tired of 8:7, 7:8 nailbiters. ELO has good motivations behind it I can't argue with that, but it is very wrong in some of its core principles.

[Aethon]

SlXSlXSlX, on 26 February 2013 - 05:23 AM, said:

Yes, I am calling you a liar. Just so we make that clear. Or, your ELO is grossly disproportional to your actual skill. Then your not lying, your jsut operating on a misimpression and proffering it as truth, which in many ways, still amounts to lying.

There is a difference between lying (which is KNOWINGLY spreading untruths) and saying things that I believe to be true. I happen to believe all my matches in the past couple hours have been landslides, one way or the other. The reason I happen to believe that, is because I am presently of sound judgement, am not mentally impaired by alcohol or drugs, and have a fairly decent memory of the matches that have occurred recently.

I also do not stoop to name-calling, just because I happen to believe that someone else is incorrect.

I could be wrong; I never count that out, as nobody is perfect. *shrugs* I used to think the Jenner was stupid and pointless until I tried it this morning, for example; I have been wrong many times before...but that is why I made the thread: to get other people's opinions. If you prove me wrong, I can own up to that...but calling me a liar does not really explain anything.

Edited by Aethon, 26 February 2013 - 05:39 AM.

[Aethon]

KinLuu, on 26 February 2013 - 03:36 AM, said:

Groups and soloplayers need to be completely split. There must be two seperate queues.

Groups have a massive negative impact on the enjoyment of soloplayers and vice versa.

It is almost impossible to keep both happy as long as they are mixed in the same queue.

This would be great, IMHO. More fairness for the pugs, and more competitive matches for the people who feel like grouping up on Teamspeak.

[Ransack]

Thirdstar, on 26 February 2013 - 05:03 AM, said:

All I've ever wanted was close matches. Anything but the old 8-0 and 8-1.

And Elo has delivered that. Hard fought battles that look more like 8-5, 8-6 and those really rare 8-7.

I've seen more 'Nicely fought', 'Woo awesome fight' , 'Good game, no really' in ALL chat in the last few days than I've seen in 3 months.

This I can agree with. I have also seen more 6v8's and 5v8's than ever (gotta love it when you drop short then have an immediate DC). The mismatching of tonnage can be insurmountable at times too. Overall, I think this ELO thing is decent. At least it got all the premade witch hunters to shut up, so it's not all bad.

Edited by Ransack, 26 February 2013 - 06:28 AM.

[SlXSlXSlX]

Ransack, on 26 February 2013 - 05:43 AM, said:

This I can agree with. I have also seen more 6v8's and 5v8's than ever (gotta love it when you drop short then have an immediate DC). The mismatching of tonnage is can be insurmountable at times too. Overall, I think this ELO thing is decent. At least it got all the premade witch hunters to shut up, so it's not all bad.

OMG, we have a random queue, and an 8 man queue. What you say would help, is currently available!

!

[PhoenixFire55]

Thirdstar, on 26 February 2013 - 04:40 AM, said:

The only person I see whining in the whole thread (and that other one) is you.

Waaaaaaaah I want my win rate back! Those damn PUGs are actually beating me! NO FAIR!

Switching to personal insults when you can not counter my arguments does not make you right or your position stronger. As I have already said the fact that 95% of my games are solo PUG matches do not suggest that I care about my win/loss ratio one bit. For all I know it was around 1.2 in closed beta and it is still around 1.2 now.

[Joseph Mallan]

Thirdstar, on 26 February 2013 - 05:03 AM, said:

All I've ever wanted was close matches. Anything but the old 8-0 and 8-1.

And Elo has delivered that. Hard fought battles that look more like 8-5, 8-6 and those really rare 8-7.

I've seen more 'Nicely fought', 'Woo awesome fight' , 'Good game, no really' in ALL chat in the last few days than I've seen in 3 months.

I'm not sure that it is Elo doing it though Thirdstar. I fought and ground my way to be the 98th placed Assault pilot in the tourney. I had lots of matches along the way with the board leaders and no time at all landing with them in the MM. Yet I only had 1 match with Murphy's CO(10th place Mediums) DocBach and 2 matches with only one other Lawman. All of which should have a lower Elo score than Broceratops and Ciller.

[SlXSlXSlX]

PhoenixFire55, on 26 February 2013 - 05:45 AM, said:

Switching to personal insults when you can not counter my arguments does not make you right or your position stronger. As I have already said the fact that 95% of my games are solo PUG matches do not suggest that I care about my win/loss ratio one bit. For all I know it was around 1.2 in closed beta and it is still around 1.2 now.

You arguments, have been countered, but you jsut keep going on. I cant blame his frustration with you.

[Thirdstar]

Ransack, on 26 February 2013 - 05:43 AM, said:

This I can agree with. I have also seen more 6v8's and 5v8's than ever (gotta love it when you drop short then have an immediate DC). The mismatching of tonnage is can be insurmountable at times too. Overall, I think this ELO thing is decent. At least it got all the premade witch hunters to shut up, so it's not all bad.

To be absolutely honest, it was never as bad as the 'Witch Hunters' made it out to be. Human perception always leads people to remember the worst of outcomes. But it WAS an issue, both real and perceived.

Elo does have issues at the moment, specially when it comes to tonnage matching.

[p4r4g0n]

My speculation about situations described by OP is that the problem lies with the matchmaker and how it uses the Elo rating to create a team. Example -

Your team: 4 X 1300 Elo rated solo players + your group with individual average Elo ratings of 2500
Opfor 8 X 1800 Elo rated players

Not surprising you lost if your team was anything like the example. In addition, it appears that the weight class Elo rating is also a significant parameter in match making given the number match ups reported with uneven team sizes and mech classes.

Don't blame the Elo rating, blame the parameters the Devs put in the matchmaker and lobby for a change. Can we all try to stay focused on the problems being encountered and stop obsfucating the issue with ad hominem attacks or premade vs pug hate fests?

As far as separate queues are concerned, I can't see anyway the Devs would even consider this considering they would have to completely start re-doing significant parts of or all of the current CW design to work around this.

Edited by p4r4g0n, 26 February 2013 - 05:57 AM.

[Thirdstar]

Joseph Mallan, on 26 February 2013 - 05:46 AM, said:

I'm not sure that it is Elo doing it though Thirdstar. I fought and ground my way to be the 98th placed Assault pilot in the tourney. I had lots of matches along the way with the board leaders and no time at all landing with them in the MM. Yet I only had 1 match with Murphy's CO(10th place Mediums) DocBach and 2 matches with only one other Lawman. All of which should have a lower Elo score than Broceratops and Ciller.

Well I'm willing to accept other explanations, but as it's been noted in other threads I'm not the only one who's had a change of experience. I didn't opt into the tournament and my skill level is decidedly average.

Perhaps there are certain layers of Elo skill with vastly different player experiences.

[Critical Fumble]

Thirdstar, on 26 February 2013 - 05:22 AM, said:

That's pretty much what I said. I said lessened, not eliminated.

Counter-point, the actual value of that skill is increased. Before, the imbalance of skill levels could mean that the skill of the lesser side could not overcome, and effectively had no value; while the other side could have too much for some degree of it to have value. Now the closer levels of skill give value to that extra push a player is capable of, making it the difference between victory and loss rather than assured either way.

A particular case, here:

This was one of those matches where any more from the other side or less from ours would have flipped the results. I and that surviving Raven managed to pull some significant fire power off the main brawl in the upper city by pressuring the cap at different times. It doesn't prove that Elo is making the game more fair, but they seem easier to come by at least.

[FerretGR]

Aethon, on 26 February 2013 - 03:08 AM, said:

After having given in a week or so, I see ELO as the worst thing to happen to MWO ever. Worse than ECM, worse than the closed beta missiles that always landed on your head, worse than the gigantic Atlas head hitbox from those days, worse than the 11ML Swayback...it tops them all, on my list at least.

Anymore, regardless of my performance in any given match, I am starting to feel like I am simply rolling the dice anymore. It is all a matter of how stupid the pugs in my match are, because the 1-3 guys I drop with cannot always drag the pugs kicking and screaming to victory, in spite of their best efforts to the contrary.

I've been having great matches and great fun. *shrug*

[Aethon]

Some of the matchmaking times I have seen this morning were pretty long; I am starting to think we would be waiting all day on matches if it matched weight as well, unfortunately.

FerretGR, on 26 February 2013 - 06:04 AM, said:

I've been having great matches and great fun. *shrug*

If you ride the bus with some homeless people, does that make you a bum? I just want some of those old-school nail-biters, when you wonder if your surviving comrades will win.

EDIT: Just to be clear, I am not calling pugs bums or anything...just an analogy.

Edited by Aethon, 26 February 2013 - 06:13 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Thirdstar, on 26 February 2013 - 05:55 AM, said:

Well I'm willing to accept other explanations, but as it's been noted in other threads I'm not the only one who's had a change of experience. I didn't opt into the tournament and my skill level is decidedly average.

Perhaps there are certain layers of Elo skill with vastly different player experiences.

It's possible. I have no experience with Elo, I just wonder what Elo will do with a match in the Clan invasion portion of the game when an Elite Clan force drops against a Regular Planetary Militia or Merc force. How/why should that fight be "balanced" and "even"? I guess we kinda need a PvE portion of the game for matches like this so feelings don't get hurt and the mission/Scenario can be played out as intended. Maybe?

[Aethon]

Critical Fumble, on 26 February 2013 - 05:57 AM, said:

Counter-point, the actual value of that skill is increased. Before, the imbalance of skill levels could mean that the skill of the lesser side could not overcome, and effectively had no value; while the other side could have too much for some degree of it to have value. Now the closer levels of skill give value to that extra push a player is capable of, making it the difference between victory and loss rather than assured either way.

A particular case, here:

This was one of those matches where any more from the other side or less from ours would have flipped the results. I and that surviving Raven managed to pull some significant fire power off the main brawl in the upper city by pressuring the cap at different times. It doesn't prove that Elo is making the game more fair, but they seem easier to come by at least.

How often are you getting matches that end like that? Are you playing in a group, or solo?

[StonedDead]

ELO is OP, NERF IT! jk. Seriously, give it a couple weeks before you judge it. The devs stated it will take at least that long to get it right, then it might need to be adjusted further. Try dropping in all your weight classes evenly for a while and see what the differences between them are. I bet there is some. The less you have used a class the worse people you should be matched with right? So the more you use it and give stats for the ELO, the better the matches should be, in theory.

[SlXSlXSlX]

If i had a match like critical fumbles, id want to make a thread about it.

http://mwomercs.com/...78#entry1953278

I might even want to sing and dance about it.