209 replies to this topic

[JudgeDeathCZ]

Boydsan, on 26 February 2013 - 11:44 AM, said:

Then you never fought a LRM Cat with tag that was running away at a speed faster than most heavies and assaults - while firing LRMs. LRM cats are the only possible LRM mechs TBH - because of tactics like that and tag.

Then LRM mechs are not supposed to be fast enough to keep distance?Tell it to my 90+ kph 2xLRM15,3xMLas and TAG trebuchets please

Edited by JudgeDeathCZ, 26 February 2013 - 11:52 AM.

[Serapth]

Viper69, on 26 February 2013 - 10:44 AM, said:

I dont understand why the stalker doesnt have remarkable twisting ability like the catapult. The reason the catapult was given fast twisting and a high twist arc was because of it not having functional arms. Well the Stalker is in the same boat yet its twist is reduced to a craptastic amount and its twist speed is lacking. So in my opinion either reduce the catapults twist or increase the stalkers degree of twist.

It's because PGI learned a little bit about game balance as they went on ( well other than the ECM f-up ), but wont admit they screwed up with the Catapult.

[BoydofZINJ]

JudgeDeathCZ, on 26 February 2013 - 11:50 AM, said:

Then LRM mechs are not supposed to be fast enough to keep distance?Tell it to my 90+ kph 2xLRM15,3xMLas and TAG trebuchets please

You can backpedal 90 KPH or padal backwards enough to keep target when firing LRMs?

[Yankee77]

Boydsan, on 26 February 2013 - 11:44 AM, said:

Then you never fought a LRM Cat with tag that was running away at a speed faster than most heavies and assaults - while firing LRMs. LRM cats are the only possible LRM mechs TBH - because of tactics like that and tag.

I have, and as an LRM Cat I can say that's totally overrated. If you're lucky you might make it, but all the while you're moving obliquely while the enemy is moving directly towards you and catching up (and of course shooting at you). Never mind the problems terrain represents.

In an ideal world, where there's no cover of obstructions and you're positioned perfectly to use this tactic, it does help. Somewhat. It does delay the inevitable. Usually however, if you're an LRM boat running away from someone, you're already in trouble and getting pummeled.

Regardless, to claim that the wide torso twist makes the catapult OP is just silly. It compensates for the lack of arm actuators, that's it.

And really, with the huge cockpit hitbox Catapult "enjoys", calling for nerfs is entirely misplaced.

[LaserAngel]

Boydsan, on 26 February 2013 - 11:53 AM, said:

You can backpedal 90 KPH or padal backwards enough to keep target when firing LRMs?

That's a big nope. The Trebuchet isn't the owl.

[JudgeDeathCZ]

Boydsan, on 26 February 2013 - 11:53 AM, said:

You can backpedal 90 KPH or padal backwards enough to keep target when firing LRMs?

No.Just to run away from dat Atlas trying to kill me with 4 MLas and AC20

[Dock Steward]

So many people complain about the Catapult, specifically the A1 (maybe it's just a few people complaining ALOT), I pilot Catapults 50% of the time and my A1 probably 20% of the time. I do well in all my mechs. I get just as many kills in my Large Laser Boat 1X, just as many kills in my Quad AC/5 4X, just as many kills in my C1, and only slightly fewer kills in my DRG-1N. If anything, my playstyle has to see the biggest change in order to be effective in the A1. Having such a short range is a HUGE disadvantage, as is mounting 100% of my weapons in my easily removed "ears." You can claim they don't take skill to pilot, but I disagree. I didn't get good at hitting a light mech doing 140kph at 200m in an instant. It took practice. Frankly my CTF-1X LL boat takes a LOT less skill. I point, I click, I do 45 damage to one area. Limbs blow off. Somebody should b*tch about that for a while.

Edited by Dock Steward, 26 February 2013 - 12:07 PM.

[Mystere]

Oh great! It's another one of those "please nerf because I cannot deal with it" threads.

[Yankee77]

Serapth, on 26 February 2013 - 11:51 AM, said:

It's because PGI learned a little bit about game balance as they went on ( well other than the ECM f-up ), but wont admit they screwed up with the Catapult.

Actually, it's more likely that they know the Stalker is a bigger, badder Catapult, and the only advantage a Catapult offers over the Stalker is added speed and maneuverability (which includes its torso twist).

That, and the simple fact that the Stalker is BUILT to pack as massive an alpha strike as possible, mounting the greatest amount of hardpoints. That's almost certainly why it was given a narrow torso twist, to balance out the fact it has the most powerful array of weaponry in the game.

Meanwhile the Catapult does not have NEARLY as much potential firepower as the Stalker. Only the AI can boat as well as it does (in one area), and that's with much more vulnerable "ears" and cockpit.

The problem, in any case, has nothing to do with the chassis. It's boating. Discourage boating or fix it in some way, and the problem goes away. But if boating remains fine, you'll always have some chassis to complain about, and no amount of nerfing will help you.

[Dock Steward]

There's nothing wrong with boating. Boating is always a risk that offers a great potential reward. People complain about boats because they're too lazy to adapt and exploit that particular boat's huge weakness.

[Bullseye69]

Reduce the torso twist and everything would be fine.Catpults are a fire support mech not a brawler mech, they should not have better torso twist than a pure brawling mech.

The Catapult is an offense oriented, second-line fire-support BattleMech initially produced on a limited contract for the Terran Hegemony.

[LaserAngel]

Bullseye69, on 26 February 2013 - 12:14 PM, said:

Reduce the torso twist and everything would be fine.Catpults are a fire support mech not a brawler mech, they should not have better torso twist than a pure brawling mech.

The Catapult is an offense oriented, second-line fire-support BattleMech initially produced on a limited contract for the Terran Hegemony.

That's what came to my mind as well. It was discussing a 100 degree twist and a speed cap down to the 300. Maybe even throw a slower rotation speed on top of that.

[ElLocoMarko]

Original Poster - Just go buy a Raven 3L and find out what easy really is.

Before crying nerf... please grind a few million c-bills and try one out. And since so many people are saying nerf the twist... try not using your twist. Your CT (which is easily targetable from both sides) will be gone in seconds. It might as well say "armor 62" and not 422.

Now I like to use the jump jets to do pirouettes so you might see me live a little longer as I serve my secondary function... laser magnet.

Edited by ElLocoMarko, 26 February 2013 - 12:34 PM.

[Irvine]

SpartanFiredog317, on 26 February 2013 - 10:24 AM, said:

...Cut the engine rating down to a 250, and the twist down to about 70 degrees, and SRMS/SSRMS will be completely balanced. Its not even the fact that Catapults can boat every weapon in the game, the problem is they can do so better than just about any mech in the game. LRMS AC20s PPCs SRMS/SSRMS.... all with close enough to a 360 arc of fire, max armor, and the speed of a medium. Cutting their speed and fire arc will give them enough disadvantage to be in line with everyone else, but still let the payload be deadly if they can get position.

you do realize that a cat doesnt have lower arm actuators? That is the point of the torso twist. If you cannot shoot it in the head CT whenever it turns it is YOU problem. Your proposed nerfs would take the catapult completely out of the game.

P.S. Cats come with a STD 260 engine. Do some research before you spout off.

[Rhent]

Bullseye69, on 26 February 2013 - 12:14 PM, said:

Reduce the torso twist and everything would be fine.Catpults are a fire support mech not a brawler mech, they should not have better torso twist than a pure brawling mech.

The Catapult is an offense oriented, second-line fire-support BattleMech initially produced on a limited contract for the Terran Hegemony.

The "Fire Support" argument came from a paid writer when FASA actually existed. The writer was paid to create a product that would sell, the product had to include interesting product descriptions. That being said, stating the Catapult is a "Fire Support" and not a "Brawler" is one of the pig stupidest lines a player of MWO can write.

Just because you like running:
Hunchbacks
Centurions
Atlas
Stalker

It does not give you the exclusive "But I'm a Brawler and you're not". Go back to the lil boys room and lets the adults play an online FPS. All mechs can be:
Brawlers
Snipers
Mix

The game is set up that all chassis can generally use 2 of 3 weapon classes. All weapon classes have the capability to be used at Long or Short range.

I could look at the original description of the hunchback and write: "The hunchback can only brawl, it can't do anything else", and I'd be as stupid and wrong as you are.

[Corvus Antaka]

I'd agree with cutting the twist on the A1. In general the twist on the catapult is very high for a fire support mech. Brawlers should be the ones with this type of torso twist range, not fire support. It'd make a significant different esp on the A1 to curb it's ability to brawl in close and dump fire those SRMS so accurately.

[Xyroc]

not a fan of splat cats either but hell no dont ruin catapults just because of it

[Rhent]

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 26 February 2013 - 12:35 PM, said:

I'd agree with cutting the twist on the A1. In general the twist on the catapult is very high for a fire support mech. Brawlers should be the ones with this type of torso twist range, not fire support. It'd make a significant different esp on the A1 to curb it's ability to brawl in close and dump fire those SRMS so accurately.

Please see the above comment [REDACTED].

Edited by Helmer, 27 February 2013 - 04:19 AM.
Edited for unnecessary and insulting content.

[Irvine]

Goldsan, on 26 February 2013 - 11:24 AM, said:

A cataphract has the ability to go about as fast as your standard A1, but at the expense of firepower and safety.

Cataphracts have very low slung arms, which is bad in nearly every case. They have very exposed side torsos and a very flat torso, making it extremely easy to place shots on them. Not only is that an inherent weakness, but it is redoubled since it also means a death sentence if you use an XL in one.

Dragons can't fit anywhere near the firepower that catapults can, and it has an extremely prominent core, which is easy to hit at nearly every angle possible.

Neither have comparable levels of twist.

The catapult is not overpowered because of any one reason. It is overpowered because of the dozens of little reasons.

Great twist, great hard points, safe XLs, good speed, good survivability. It is blatantly the best heavy mech in nearly any application.

Dragons can still run in the 50 alpha range along with those very high DPS builds. All while running at around 100 kph

[Jacmac]

Viper69, on 26 February 2013 - 10:44 AM, said:

I dont understand why the stalker doesnt have remarkable twisting ability like the catapult. The reason the catapult was given fast twisting and a high twist arc was because of it not having functional arms. Well the Stalker is in the same boat yet its twist is reduced to a craptastic amount and its twist speed is lacking.

Have to agree with you on this, the Stalker has terrible maneuverability. I prefer any Atlas to the Stalker. The only thing the Stalker has going for it is the ability to put out a lethal alpha strike and a lower profile. Other than that it take a long time for a light to kill it off solo. But one on one, any light can obliterate a Stalker, assuming the light is piloted by a patient pilot. A light one on one with a Catapult is not an easy kill.