74 replies to this topic

[GalaxyBluestar]

i think the concern over catapults has overtaken ecm... perhaps. is it that bad?

have your say so {again} now!

inspired by....

Why Splatcat Ruins Games Beyond Being Gimmicky.

Cut The Engine Rating And Twist Of The Catapult

Mechs That Counter Hated Mechs


k2's have weird torso carry abilities and a1 can stack missles but they are defeatable and have been. also they steamroll when a premade of them turns up... which happens when just about any mech populates a whole team. so is the single mech really op?

so again let's see if the comunity thinks this bad kitty needs a good nerfing or not. not that the previous poll proved anything anyways.

The Controversy
http://mwomercs.com/...36#entry1854836

please try to avoid personal slurs and let democracy do the job.

edit: AND FOR GOD SAKES I DON"T CARE WHAT HAPPENS TO THE CAT I DON"T CARE FOR NERF BUFF OR WHATEVER DO NOT ASSOCIATE ME OR THESE THREADS TO EITHER CAMP!

Edited by GalaxyBluestar, 26 February 2013 - 09:24 PM.

[semalferuzA]

This isn't a democracy and Catapults are fine. I don't even play one.

[Franchi]

Since we need ANOTHER of these threads here is another of my responses.

I like how everyone is oblivious to WHY the catapult K2 and A1 are being used the way they are, it's because another mech is BETTER at their intended role than they are or their intended role has been made worthless by the meta, or both.

The K2 is inferior to the 3D as a PPC sniper, the 3D is the same speed, has JJ's and runs cooler with the same loadout. The only thing that a K2 can do better than any other mechs is use two MASSIVE ballistic weapons.

Aside from LRM's being garbo in the current meta, the A1 is inferior to the C1 and C4 as an LRM boat because it cannot carry tag or a PPC. not to mention the stalker, that has the tonnage to boat bigger LRM launchers and more ammo while keeping them cool AND running tag and/or PPc's. So what can a A1 do better than any other mech? Boat SRM's

Edited by Franchi, 26 February 2013 - 08:43 PM.

[Tennex]

i don't see why not lower the max engine capability of the A1. it was designed to be a LRM boat. so it should move slower than the other Catapults.

The K2 needs the torso twist and the speed. The A1 can have reduced speed, but it still needs the torso twist. So it can walk forward/look back while shooting LRMs. For kiting.

Edited by Tennex, 26 February 2013 - 08:40 PM.

[GalaxyBluestar]

yes i do apologise to my upmost about "YET ANOTHER CAT THREAD" but apparently we need numbers time and time again to show it's not worth complaining about these things, it's staying so get used to it everyone else has.

[One Medic Army]

I call it a cheese build, and I poke fun at people using it (the A1 splat).
Really though it's because 7/8 current maps highly encourage close range brawls.

If half the maps were like alpine I don't think anyone would complain about them anymore.
Well, nobody would complain about them unless we got to choose which map we played on, or which mech we brought to a specific map, but that's a whole other can of worms.

Double Ac/20 K2 I have not many issues with anymore, and it'll have the same issues as the A1 if we get more big maps.

Edited by One Medic Army, 26 February 2013 - 08:41 PM.

[Irvine]

I am really starting to be annoyed by people who hate a mech without research. Find me an A1 build that doesnt use (S)SRms and is viable. People also hate the ballistic K2 builds but cannot fathom that yes you can hit the side torsos! Maybe god forbid you should shoot at the legs/CT/head, which are 10x easier to hit.

[Royalewithcheese]

I think it's mostly just a function of the cat variants having some really unusual characteristics (6x missile launchers, tiny RT/LT hitboxes, a variant with ballistic slots in the RT/LT) that make them good platforms for niche builds. But do people honestly think that any of the catapult variants is strictly more powerful than, say, a Cataphract with 3x UAC/5?

[Erasus Magnus]

cats arent the problem. ac 20 cats are dangerous, but doable, so are gauss kitties. the problem lies within srms, streaks, ecm and lrms, like desrcibed by dozens of forum threads before.

without ecm, lrms do FU things up BAR, so ecm was implemented to hard counter these and streaks. The A1 has only missile pods, so with lrms and streaks out of the window there are only srms left.
it doesnt even have an energy slot to carry a tag, that is mandatory for lrm builds at the moment.

leave cats alone, rework lrms, ecm and streaks!

edit. pretty much what Franchi said a few posts above me.

Edited by Erasus Magnus, 26 February 2013 - 08:59 PM.

[Solis Obscuri]

GalaxyBluestar, on 26 February 2013 - 08:34 PM, said:

i think the concern over catapults has overtaken ecm... perhaps.

[Elizander]

I have no issues with catapults and I don't think I've piloted one this year.

[FupDup]

GalaxyBluestar, on 26 February 2013 - 08:34 PM, said:

i think the concern over catapults has overtaken ecm...

Not really. The fact that Catapults are heavy means that they are not lights. This means that the level of concern over them will never match that of ECM lights. People simply have stereotypically hated all light mechs since MW4 (possibly earlier, never played earlier titles online) just because they're not heavies or assaults.

Edited by FupDup, 26 February 2013 - 09:04 PM.

[Franchi]

Tennex, on 26 February 2013 - 08:39 PM, said:

i don't see why not lower the max engine capability of the A1. it was designed to be a LRM boat. so it should move slower than the other Catapults.

The K2 needs the torso twist and the speed. The A1 can have reduced speed, but it still needs the torso twist. So it can walk forward/look back while shooting LRMs. For kiting.

OK take an A1. load it up with LRM's and drop into a pug match.

Come back and report what happens.

[Critical Fumble]

Again, Galaxy, its in the mechanics of the game itself.

Starting with the K2 - annoying, yes. But the actual thing that's happening is two high powered slugs striking the same place and either killing or maiming a mech nigh instantly. Its the whole, "The best defense" idea. Cataphracts can do the same thing, future mechs will do the same thing. I don't like the sudden death effect, but nerfing a chassis won't fix issues with high-damage alphas. At most, they should consider having more of the front profile taken up with side torsos - and even that only because they're tiny relative to other heavies. HIt Box Localization - Heavies

And the A1. . . I almost feel bad for them - almost. ECM took both LRMs and SSRMs from them, so of course the only thing you'll see them use are SRM pods - and a lot of them. They really need to get the lock-on missiles to a state where they don't feel like they need ECM to balance them. If there actually is an issue with in-your-face SRM blasts, they might should change SRM spread to a cylinder rather than a cone - it might actually be more fair, as the other weapons have their listed effect up to a range and then slowly fall off as they get further out; while SRMs start having fall of immediately due to spread, and then explode at their listed range.

All that to say, hate the meta, not the mecha.

[GalaxyBluestar]

Solis Obscuri, on 26 February 2013 - 08:57 PM, said:

FupDup, on 26 February 2013 - 09:03 PM, said:

Not really. The fact that Catapults are heavy means that they are not lights. This means that the level of concern over them will never match that of ECM lights. People simply have stereotypically hated all light mechs since MW4 (possibly earlier, never played earlier titles online) just because they're not heavies or assaults.

cat's are nothing compared to that.

Edited by GalaxyBluestar, 26 February 2013 - 09:28 PM.

[Mazzyplz]

well the poll is very telling;
those guys making these threads are pretty much spoiled brats!!!!!!
who knew!!

[Ryvucz]

Only problem I have is the A1. Only missile hardpoints, that makes me sad.

[xRatas]

Tennex, on 26 February 2013 - 08:39 PM, said:

i don't see why not lower the max engine capability of the A1. it was designed to be a LRM boat. so it should move slower than the other Catapults.

The K2 needs the torso twist and the speed. The A1 can have reduced speed, but it still needs the torso twist. So it can walk forward/look back while shooting LRMs. For kiting.

Are you serious? Let's just remove mech customization completely from game, so every mech can match it's original role. Also, every Catapult is originally LRM or Arrow mech, excluding K2. A1 just is the one with more ammo and less lazors.

Let's start by limiting light mech engines first, not every light should be able to top 100kph. Only Spider should, but it should not have ECM.

What's the point shoehorning one mech to match it's original role, if you do not to that for every mech?

Edited by xRatas, 26 February 2013 - 09:36 PM.

[Commander Kobold]

K2 doesn't need a nerf, just needs its balistic slots moved into its CT, then there wouldn't be a K2 issue

[Geadron Kane]

I don't understand why with the exception of lasers and lrms, the other weapons are the only ones to follow cannon. Lrm especially are doing double the damage (Lrm 20 does nearly 40 dmg). Why does a guided weapon get dbl damage but the lb-10x does not? I would think the best way to model damage is based around risk, that is why the ac20 has limited range, the gauss is one big ammo explosion waiting to happen, and lasers/srms spread damage the greater the range. Just like the modifiers to dice rolls, movement makes direct fire weapons harder to aim.

The problem is if you try and address the problem with lrm/ecm/streaks you need to also look at the fact that direct fire load-outs across multiple hard-points should not be converging to the same point as if a targeting computer has been installed, at least not torso and limb mounts at the same time.

The damage output of any weapons should always reflect the risk of dealing said damage.

Edited by Geadron Kane, 26 February 2013 - 09:36 PM.