Jump to content

It's Happening Again


74 replies to this topic

Poll: do catapults need a nerf (207 member(s) have cast votes)

should all catapults need a nerf/reduction somewhere

  1. yes (19 votes [9.18%])

    Percentage of vote: 9.18%

  2. no (182 votes [87.92%])

    Percentage of vote: 87.92%

  3. not too sure i'll explain in a post what's good and bad (6 votes [2.90%])

    Percentage of vote: 2.90%

okay so it's the k-2 that needs a nerf?

  1. yes (21 votes [10.14%])

    Percentage of vote: 10.14%

  2. no (178 votes [85.99%])

    Percentage of vote: 85.99%

  3. not too sure i'll explain in a post what's good and bad (8 votes [3.86%])

    Percentage of vote: 3.86%

alright so it's all about the a1 huh THAT one needs a nerf

  1. yes (45 votes [21.74%])

    Percentage of vote: 21.74%

  2. no (151 votes [72.95%])

    Percentage of vote: 72.95%

  3. not too sure i'll explain in a post what's good and bad (11 votes [5.31%])

    Percentage of vote: 5.31%

Vote Guests cannot vote

#1 GalaxyBluestar

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,748 posts
  • Location...

Posted 26 February 2013 - 08:34 PM

i think the concern over catapults has overtaken ecm... perhaps. is it that bad?

have your say so {again} now!

inspired by....

Why Splatcat Ruins Games Beyond Being Gimmicky.

Cut The Engine Rating And Twist Of The Catapult

Mechs That Counter Hated Mechs


k2's have weird torso carry abilities and a1 can stack missles but they are defeatable and have been. also they steamroll when a premade of them turns up... which happens when just about any mech populates a whole team. so is the single mech really op?

so again let's see if the comunity thinks this bad kitty needs a good nerfing or not. not that the previous poll proved anything anyways.

The Controversy
http://mwomercs.com/...36#entry1854836

please try to avoid personal slurs and let democracy do the job.

edit: AND FOR GOD SAKES I DON"T CARE WHAT HAPPENS TO THE CAT I DON"T CARE FOR NERF BUFF OR WHATEVER DO NOT ASSOCIATE ME OR THESE THREADS TO EITHER CAMP!

Edited by GalaxyBluestar, 26 February 2013 - 09:24 PM.


#2 semalferuzA

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 125 posts

Posted 26 February 2013 - 08:37 PM

This isn't a democracy and Catapults are fine. I don't even play one.

#3 Franchi

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 818 posts
  • Locationplaying something else.

Posted 26 February 2013 - 08:37 PM

Since we need ANOTHER of these threads here is another of my responses.

I like how everyone is oblivious to WHY the catapult K2 and A1 are being used the way they are, it's because another mech is BETTER at their intended role than they are or their intended role has been made worthless by the meta, or both.

The K2 is inferior to the 3D as a PPC sniper, the 3D is the same speed, has JJ's and runs cooler with the same loadout. The only thing that a K2 can do better than any other mechs is use two MASSIVE ballistic weapons.

Aside from LRM's being garbo in the current meta, the A1 is inferior to the C1 and C4 as an LRM boat because it cannot carry tag or a PPC. not to mention the stalker, that has the tonnage to boat bigger LRM launchers and more ammo while keeping them cool AND running tag and/or PPc's. So what can a A1 do better than any other mech? Boat SRM's

Edited by Franchi, 26 February 2013 - 08:43 PM.


#4 Tennex

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The 1 Percent
  • The 1 Percent
  • 6,619 posts

Posted 26 February 2013 - 08:39 PM

i don't see why not lower the max engine capability of the A1. it was designed to be a LRM boat. so it should move slower than the other Catapults.

The K2 needs the torso twist and the speed. The A1 can have reduced speed, but it still needs the torso twist. So it can walk forward/look back while shooting LRMs. For kiting.

Edited by Tennex, 26 February 2013 - 08:40 PM.


#5 GalaxyBluestar

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,748 posts
  • Location...

Posted 26 February 2013 - 08:40 PM

yes i do apologise to my upmost about "YET ANOTHER CAT THREAD" but apparently we need numbers time and time again to show it's not worth complaining about these things, it's staying so get used to it everyone else has.

#6 One Medic Army

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,985 posts
  • LocationBay Area, California

Posted 26 February 2013 - 08:40 PM

I call it a cheese build, and I poke fun at people using it (the A1 splat).
Really though it's because 7/8 current maps highly encourage close range brawls.

If half the maps were like alpine I don't think anyone would complain about them anymore.
Well, nobody would complain about them unless we got to choose which map we played on, or which mech we brought to a specific map, but that's a whole other can of worms.

Double Ac/20 K2 I have not many issues with anymore, and it'll have the same issues as the A1 if we get more big maps.

Edited by One Medic Army, 26 February 2013 - 08:41 PM.


#7 Irvine

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Fire
  • Fire
  • 289 posts

Posted 26 February 2013 - 08:42 PM

I am really starting to be annoyed by people who hate a mech without research. Find me an A1 build that doesnt use (S)SRms and is viable. People also hate the ballistic K2 builds but cannot fathom that yes you can hit the side torsos! Maybe god forbid you should shoot at the legs/CT/head, which are 10x easier to hit.

#8 Royalewithcheese

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,342 posts

Posted 26 February 2013 - 08:43 PM

I think it's mostly just a function of the cat variants having some really unusual characteristics (6x missile launchers, tiny RT/LT hitboxes, a variant with ballistic slots in the RT/LT) that make them good platforms for niche builds. But do people honestly think that any of the catapult variants is strictly more powerful than, say, a Cataphract with 3x UAC/5?

#9 Erasus Magnus

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Veteran Founder
  • Veteran Founder
  • 383 posts
  • LocationUnited States Of Mind

Posted 26 February 2013 - 08:52 PM

cats arent the problem. ac 20 cats are dangerous, but doable, so are gauss kitties. the problem lies within srms, streaks, ecm and lrms, like desrcibed by dozens of forum threads before.

without ecm, lrms do FU things up BAR, so ecm was implemented to hard counter these and streaks. The A1 has only missile pods, so with lrms and streaks out of the window there are only srms left.
it doesnt even have an energy slot to carry a tag, that is mandatory for lrm builds at the moment.

leave cats alone, rework lrms, ecm and streaks!

edit. pretty much what Franchi said a few posts above me.

Edited by Erasus Magnus, 26 February 2013 - 08:59 PM.


#10 Solis Obscuri

    Don't Care How I Want It Now!

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The DeathRain
  • The DeathRain
  • 4,751 posts
  • LocationPomme de Terre

Posted 26 February 2013 - 08:57 PM

View PostGalaxyBluestar, on 26 February 2013 - 08:34 PM, said:

i think the concern over catapults has overtaken ecm... perhaps.

Posted Image


Posted Image



#11 Elizander

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Legendary Founder
  • Legendary Founder
  • 7,540 posts
  • LocationPhilippines

Posted 26 February 2013 - 09:00 PM

I have no issues with catapults and I don't think I've piloted one this year. :rolleyes:

#12 FupDup

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Ace Of Spades
  • Ace Of Spades
  • 26,888 posts
  • LocationThe Keeper of Memes

Posted 26 February 2013 - 09:03 PM

View PostGalaxyBluestar, on 26 February 2013 - 08:34 PM, said:

i think the concern over catapults has overtaken ecm...

Not really. The fact that Catapults are heavy means that they are not lights. This means that the level of concern over them will never match that of ECM lights. People simply have stereotypically hated all light mechs since MW4 (possibly earlier, never played earlier titles online) just because they're not heavies or assaults.

Edited by FupDup, 26 February 2013 - 09:04 PM.


#13 Franchi

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 818 posts
  • Locationplaying something else.

Posted 26 February 2013 - 09:03 PM

View PostTennex, on 26 February 2013 - 08:39 PM, said:

i don't see why not lower the max engine capability of the A1. it was designed to be a LRM boat. so it should move slower than the other Catapults.

The K2 needs the torso twist and the speed. The A1 can have reduced speed, but it still needs the torso twist. So it can walk forward/look back while shooting LRMs. For kiting.

OK take an A1. load it up with LRM's and drop into a pug match.

Come back and report what happens.

#14 Critical Fumble

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Knight Errant
  • 810 posts

Posted 26 February 2013 - 09:15 PM

Again, Galaxy, its in the mechanics of the game itself.

Starting with the K2 - annoying, yes. But the actual thing that's happening is two high powered slugs striking the same place and either killing or maiming a mech nigh instantly. Its the whole, "The best defense" idea. Cataphracts can do the same thing, future mechs will do the same thing. I don't like the sudden death effect, but nerfing a chassis won't fix issues with high-damage alphas. At most, they should consider having more of the front profile taken up with side torsos - and even that only because they're tiny relative to other heavies. HIt Box Localization - Heavies

And the A1. . . I almost feel bad for them - almost. ECM took both LRMs and SSRMs from them, so of course the only thing you'll see them use are SRM pods - and a lot of them. They really need to get the lock-on missiles to a state where they don't feel like they need ECM to balance them. If there actually is an issue with in-your-face SRM blasts, they might should change SRM spread to a cylinder rather than a cone - it might actually be more fair, as the other weapons have their listed effect up to a range and then slowly fall off as they get further out; while SRMs start having fall of immediately due to spread, and then explode at their listed range.

All that to say, hate the meta, not the mecha.

#15 GalaxyBluestar

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,748 posts
  • Location...

Posted 26 February 2013 - 09:27 PM

View PostSolis Obscuri, on 26 February 2013 - 08:57 PM, said:

Posted Image




Posted Image





View PostFupDup, on 26 February 2013 - 09:03 PM, said:

Not really. The fact that Catapults are heavy means that they are not lights. This means that the level of concern over them will never match that of ECM lights. People simply have stereotypically hated all light mechs since MW4 (possibly earlier, never played earlier titles online) just because they're not heavies or assaults.


Posted Image
cat's are nothing compared to that.

Edited by GalaxyBluestar, 26 February 2013 - 09:28 PM.


#16 Mazzyplz

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Ace Of Spades
  • 3,292 posts

Posted 26 February 2013 - 09:29 PM

well the poll is very telling;
those guys making these threads are pretty much spoiled brats!!!!!!
who knew!!

#17 Ryvucz

    Zunrith

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,839 posts
  • LocationColorado Springs, Colorado

Posted 26 February 2013 - 09:31 PM

Only problem I have is the A1. Only missile hardpoints, that makes me sad.

#18 xRatas

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Bad Company
  • Bad Company
  • 514 posts
  • LocationFinland

Posted 26 February 2013 - 09:31 PM

View PostTennex, on 26 February 2013 - 08:39 PM, said:

i don't see why not lower the max engine capability of the A1. it was designed to be a LRM boat. so it should move slower than the other Catapults.

The K2 needs the torso twist and the speed. The A1 can have reduced speed, but it still needs the torso twist. So it can walk forward/look back while shooting LRMs. For kiting.


Are you serious? Let's just remove mech customization completely from game, so every mech can match it's original role. Also, every Catapult is originally LRM or Arrow mech, excluding K2. A1 just is the one with more ammo and less lazors.

Let's start by limiting light mech engines first, not every light should be able to top 100kph. Only Spider should, but it should not have ECM.

What's the point shoehorning one mech to match it's original role, if you do not to that for every mech?

Edited by xRatas, 26 February 2013 - 09:36 PM.


#19 Commander Kobold

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Territorial
  • 1,428 posts
  • LocationCanada

Posted 26 February 2013 - 09:32 PM

K2 doesn't need a nerf, just needs its balistic slots moved into its CT, then there wouldn't be a K2 issue

#20 Geadron Kane

    Member

  • PipPipPip
  • 76 posts
  • LocationCanada

Posted 26 February 2013 - 09:34 PM

I don't understand why with the exception of lasers and lrms, the other weapons are the only ones to follow cannon. Lrm especially are doing double the damage (Lrm 20 does nearly 40 dmg). Why does a guided weapon get dbl damage but the lb-10x does not? I would think the best way to model damage is based around risk, that is why the ac20 has limited range, the gauss is one big ammo explosion waiting to happen, and lasers/srms spread damage the greater the range. Just like the modifiers to dice rolls, movement makes direct fire weapons harder to aim.

The problem is if you try and address the problem with lrm/ecm/streaks you need to also look at the fact that direct fire load-outs across multiple hard-points should not be converging to the same point as if a targeting computer has been installed, at least not torso and limb mounts at the same time.

The damage output of any weapons should always reflect the risk of dealing said damage.

Edited by Geadron Kane, 26 February 2013 - 09:36 PM.






6 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 6 guests, 0 anonymous users