314 replies to this topic

[Doc Holliday]

Bluten, on 27 February 2013 - 06:07 PM, said:

There is no way to beat it.

Sure there is. I beat them all the time. I just took one out 1 vs 1 using the trial atlas on a smurf account - and that was fighting well within his range. Large lasers are even better to deal with them and will make short work. SRMs do zero damage beyond 270 meters.

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That's why it's OP.

They're a little OP because SRMs are OP.

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If a Catapult is in your face with 6x SRMs, and you're not in a very fast Mech, you're pretty much dead.

So don't let one get in your face. Stay close to teammates so you can gun him down faster than he can kill you.

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Lack of range isn't even an issue unless they pop on Alpine...

Lack of range is always an issue when you have nothing but SRMs. Some players are better at minimizing that issue. It's still an issue.

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You speak of "glaring weaknesses", well I'd sure like to know what they are,

Every weapon has a weakness. When you stack too many of them, you get a glaring weakness, as I said. Some weapons still need a bit of a balance, but my original statement is still true. This is why you need more than one type of weapon, to cover the weaknesses just one type leaves you with. This is why pure energy variants aren't all that popular.

Here's a couple to get you started:

- SRMs: Short-medium range only; do no damage beyond max range. Spread too much to do any real damage beyond approximately 100 meters. Require ammo that can be exploded for good internal damage.

- PPCs: Minimum range; do no damage within 90 meters. High heat for damage dealt. Require excellent player skill to consistently hit targets where desired.

- large lasers: High heat. Do damage over time, and thus require extraordinary player skill to consistently apply full damage to one location unless the target is stationary.

- AC 20: Short range. Requires ammo that can be exploded for internal damage. Requires more crit slots than any other weapon, preventing it from being a good fit for many ballistic mech builds

Edited by Doc Holliday, 27 February 2013 - 07:15 PM.

[Ironbound]

The best idea here is to change SRMs to start at a slight spread and spread less over range, rather than go perfect at first and then spread to being useless after 50. I'd really like to see if anyone else has a better idea?

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

whats a skillcat?
Is it a splatapult with another name?

[Ironbound]

It's an A1 with 6 srm 6s and jumpjets.

[WVAnonymous]

Skipped pages 3 through 12. I ran a splatcat before that was what they were called, got all my A-1 XP (OK not done with master, but as much as I cared to) and moved on.

TL;DR boring mech is boring

[topgun505]

That's probably the biggest issue with Streaks at present. It isn't so much the damage (since we only have SSRM2 at present, although it would become an issue once the SSRM6 is out). The problem is the off-bore capability. I've seen mechs taking streak shots at 90+ degrees off their centerline. That's just WAY too much of a drastic change in direction right out of the tube. Especially when you combine it with mechs with 100+ degree torso twist and thus can effectively fire completely around behind them. If/when any mechs actually do have a 180 degree torso twist then I have no problem with them firing directly behind. But right now it just seems a bit off (on some chassis). Cone of fire shouldn't be probably any more than 45 degrees off the centerline.

FupDup, on 27 February 2013 - 04:54 PM, said:

SSRMs' damage is pretty negligible unless you're chasing down lights. A much bigger issue with them is that they can do some seriously screwed up gymnastics after leaving the tube. I've seen my Streaks (I've a career Raveneer) quite literally turn on a dime to hit an enemy Commando that went behind me after firing...that shouldn't happen.

A much tighter turning radius would make lights able to dodge them much easier (in MW3 you could dodge missiles by just walking perpendicular to your attacker at ~80+ KPH) and it might provide an excuse to actually up the damage a little (to be slightly better against heavies and assaults to compensate for becoming much less OP against lights).

Edited by topgun505, 27 February 2013 - 09:34 PM.

[xRatas]

Josef Nader, on 27 February 2013 - 01:20 PM, said:

Compare and contrast.

You can drop the engine size to squeeze a few more toys, but so can the cat. Jump-sniping doesn't help you when you get into knife-fighting range, and also most pop-tarts put their gauss in their side torso, so survivability has nothing to do with it.

I have both mastered, I know well enough what is good in them and what is not, without any smurfs. And no matter how much I want to like K2 more, 3D is just plain better. K2 has some 200000 spare xp on it too, all played with PPC builds, most of it long before the heat buff.

[Tremendous Upside]

Doc Holliday, on 27 February 2013 - 07:14 PM, said:

- SRMs: Short-medium range only; do no damage beyond max range. Spread too much to do any real damage beyond approximately 100 meters. Require ammo that can be exploded for good internal damage.

- PPCs: Minimum range; do no damage within 90 meters. High heat for damage dealt. Require excellent player skill to consistently hit targets where desired.

SRMs converge between ~125-150m - so you really need to be further away than 100m. Go beyond 170 and you're much safer. If you do get stuck inside that range, your best bet is to try and time your opponents' shots and slam the brakes or turn hard just before you think he'll fire (or throw an arm in front of the blast)... And PPCs still do damage inside the minimum range. They just don't do "full" damage.

[AKSkyVirus]

It's funny how every MMO with any variations in class or whatever ends up with discussions such as these. Oh internets!

Seriously though, I think this would be more of an issue if a greater number of people were running these types of builds, but as it's stands I just don't see them that often. Do I have builds with SRMs? Of course I do... I'd have to be a fool not to. I mean they're friggin missiles for F sake. However, the chassis on which they are mounted have weaknesses that have been mentioned previously (slow turning speed, easily destroyed hardpoints, number of hardpoints, etc). The A1 does seem to have an unfair advantage in this regard because it's weaknesses don't appear to offset the strengths of the Skillcat build by that much. On top of that, it's the only chassis in the game that has six missile hardpoints. The only thing that even comes close is the STK-5M, and that's an Assault variant. So, If anything I'd say this seems more like a chassis balance problem rather than a weapon balance problem. Perhaps this violates the TT canon.. I'm not sure since I'm not familiar with the TT version(my first exposure to BattleTech, was via the GEnie Network), and even if I was I'm not much for fundamentalism.

[Darknight99]

This topic again... Its funny how the complaints with the a1 gets everyone screaming nerf all variants. I dont see how a guass/ac20 cat benifits from having a huge torso twist. Secondly whats the harm in allowing the c4 and the c1 to keep their torso twist and speed. No one seems to ever answer this part. Everyone just keeps bickering and fighting about the a1 and yet they still scream nerf to all variants.

[Rhent]

The poster is hilarious. I break 1K w/ a PPC/LRM stalker, a PPC/Streak Stalker and a 5 SRM Cat. The main difference is:

-I am useful in all maps with the Stalker, whereas soon as I get Alpine with a SRM Cat I'm useless and on Caustic the lack of cover makes the Cat a lot weaker to user.

-With a Stalker I can engage early sniping at long range and continue to fight the entire fight. Whereas with the SRM Cat, I have to work a lot harder and use terrain to stalk targets OR hang back while the main group does damage and then pop up quick for a kill and then hope that the opposing team doesn't see me and wipe me.

The SRM Cat is a harder build to use to consistently get kills than most other mechs. IF a SRM Cat hangs back and engages on the 10 min mark, by then the opposing team is damaged to the point where their armor is stripped. From then on, every shot is a kill, and that is what gets people upset. Its the same way to play as an AC/20 cat. You can't engage earlier or you will be focus fired and killed.

Frankly, its easier to use the Stalker than a SRM Cat in most fights short of River city, which the SRM Cat has a marked advantage.

[Doc Holliday]

Rhent, on 27 February 2013 - 10:36 PM, said:

The poster is hilarious. I break 1K w/ a PPC/LRM stalker, a PPC/Streak Stalker and a 5 SRM Cat. The main difference is:

-I am useful in all maps with the Stalker, whereas soon as I get Alpine with a SRM Cat I'm useless and on Caustic the lack of cover makes the Cat a lot weaker to user.

-With a Stalker I can engage early sniping at long range and continue to fight the entire fight. Whereas with the SRM Cat, I have to work a lot harder and use terrain to stalk targets OR hang back while the main group does damage and then pop up quick for a kill and then hope that the opposing team doesn't see me and wipe me.

The SRM Cat is a harder build to use to consistently get kills than most other mechs. IF a SRM Cat hangs back and engages on the 10 min mark, by then the opposing team is damaged to the point where their armor is stripped. From then on, every shot is a kill, and that is what gets people upset. Its the same way to play as an AC/20 cat. You can't engage earlier or you will be focus fired and killed.

Frankly, its easier to use the Stalker than a SRM Cat in most fights short of River city, which the SRM Cat has a marked advantage.

Unfortunately you've used far too much reason and logic. This will subsequently be ignored as players blinded by hate for the "splatcat" will snatch small portions of your post, then twist them out of context to respond to them with a strawman argument.

[Spinning Burr]

I routinely pilot mechs going 85kph+ sometimes over 110kph and with jump jets and long range precision weapons. Despite this, I find it very difficult to avoid the splatcat's killzone. A fast trebuchet with maneuverability and even JJ's is in serious trouble when the A1 is barrelling straight toward him at full throttle. It's not long before you are in HIS optimal range, and once you are inside that range it is surprisingly hard to get out of it alive despite having a 10-20 kph speed advantage.

[Voridan Atreides]

Spinning Burr, on 28 February 2013 - 07:01 AM, said:

I routinely pilot mechs going 85kph+ sometimes over 110kph and with jump jets and long range precision weapons. Despite this, I find it very difficult to avoid the splatcat's killzone. A fast trebuchet with maneuverability and even JJ's is in serious trouble when the A1 is barrelling straight toward him at full throttle. It's not long before you are in HIS optimal range, and once you are inside that range it is surprisingly hard to get out of it alive despite having a 10-20 kph speed advantage.

The Cat has insane twist too. I was in the K2 trial mech and it was amazing how far it could twist. It was almost like what an owl does with its head.

[MustrumRidcully]

Voridan Atreides, on 27 February 2013 - 10:36 AM, said:

Spaltcats operate at pretty good speed. I was focused on a different mech at the time (who was almost dead). The battle was chaotic and I did not see this "so called mechwarrior" come up to me. Sorry if I'm not all knowing.

If you can't predict where every single enemy mech is at any time, you're probably a PUG.

Or at least that's what I gather from some people that say "Mech X is not a problem, just engage it at Y". There are always two (or rather 16) in this tango (or rather square dance), and X will very much work to avoid being engaged at Y if he can help it.

[Josef Nader]

xRatas, on 27 February 2013 - 09:37 PM, said:

I have both mastered, I know well enough what is good in them and what is not, without any smurfs. And no matter how much I want to like K2 more, 3D is just plain better. K2 has some 200000 spare xp on it too, all played with PPC builds, most of it long before the heat buff.

Of course personal preference plays into it. I prefer playing my spider over my jenner and my hunchbacks over my heavies and assaults. They're more enjoyable, more interesting, and (with the exception of the spider, which really is just a for fun build) I'd argue, more effective in my hands. This does not mean that my hunchbacks are better than heavies/assaults, I just like playing them more and they suit my playstyle better.

You probably do much better and have more fun in your 3D. It doesn't change the fact that the kitty cat has better numbers on you.

[Voridan Atreides]

MustrumRidcully, on 28 February 2013 - 07:20 AM, said:

"Mech X is not a problem, just engage it at Y".

I have never said that....

[Doc Holliday]

Spinning Burr, on 28 February 2013 - 07:01 AM, said:

I routinely pilot mechs going 85kph+ sometimes over 110kph and with jump jets and long range precision weapons. Despite this, I find it very difficult to avoid the splatcat's killzone. A fast trebuchet with maneuverability and even JJ's is in serious trouble when the A1 is barrelling straight toward him at full throttle. It's not long before you are in HIS optimal range, and once you are inside that range it is surprisingly hard to get out of it alive despite having a 10-20 kph speed advantage.

This is especially hilarious, because in another thread people are predicting terrible gloom and doom for MWO because "precision weapons are too good".

Edited by Doc Holliday, 28 February 2013 - 08:27 AM.

[Nostram]

Doc Holliday, on 28 February 2013 - 08:25 AM, said:

This is especially hilarious, because in another thread people are predicting terrible gloom and doom for MWO because "precision weapons are too good".

The real issue is people have their own perception of how the game should be played, which work by them and for them. Anyone with a differing opinion is a potential disruption to the system. Splatapults work because they get in close, they are not in my opinion overpowered, they are in fact, over specialize. They are good at what they do and primarily a threat so long as they go unnoticed, obviously at range they crumble quickly, especially to focus firing. Snipers as well are primarily over specialized, good at what they do, but still manageable. Under the right circumstances either one of these two build types are able to quickly dispatch the other.

[Ironbound]

Attention anyone who's saying "The counter is to stay outside of their weapons danger zone and focus fire."

That's literally the counter to any mech.