314 replies to this topic

[Josef Nader]

Kylere, on 27 February 2013 - 04:37 PM, said:

So, a mech that is being accused of being a skillless toy requires that the pilot be "isn't stupid", to "control the engagement", "easily mitigate the number of opportunities"

Are these not things a poor player is incapable of accomplishing? I don't have a problem with dying to them, and I think they are a stupid build because they are a walking target, but I am only killed by exceptional, or exceptionally lucky pilots in an A1. I do not allow them to "control the engagement" nor "easily mitigate the number of opportunities"

The splat cat can dictate the engagement by simply being there. If someone knows there is a splat cat in cover, nobody is going to go in after it. If they don't know he's there, he wins the engagement. By "isn't stupid" I mean "doesn't run across open ground towards snipers." This is literally all it takes to be effective in a splat cat. Everything after that is just gravy.

[Monky]

Another possible balance tweak would be to make SRM's and Streaks fire one rocket after the other. Currently AMS is useless against them and it's all betting the shot on one big burst, if they fired salvos one missile after another, it would be a lot trickier to use, while still being a very good weapon if you had the skill to account for that in combat.

[Zerstorer Stallin]

It's the stacking that's broken, and not just on SRM's. This is the real problem. How the address this is really what people want to know. If you think I'm kidding try it out yourself. The only map you'll have any problems on is Apline. Otherwise its just wait till they get in a brawl and blast, lol as atlas melts and you get 2-6 kills a match.

Edited by Zerstorer Stallin, 27 February 2013 - 05:58 PM.

[Doc Holliday]

Zerstorer Stallin, on 27 February 2013 - 05:45 PM, said:

It's the stacking that sbroken, and not just on SRM's. This is the real problem. How the address this is really what people want to know. If you think I'm kidding try it out yourself. The only map you'll have any problems on is Apline. Otherwise its just wait till they get in a brawl and blast, lol as atlas melts and you get 2-6 kills a match.

I don't think you're kidding. I think you're wrong. Stacking is not the problem. The problem is players don't know how to beat one-dimensional stacked builds. Here's a hint for you: stacking too many of the same weapon type ALWAYS leaves you with a big glaring weakness. Figure out what it is with every weapon and you'll be just fine.

[Crazy Billy Joe Bob]

In my opinion, the issue is not the SRM6 damage, but that the A1 cat is very fast IF you put in a large XL engine and the speed tweak at elite level. The cool down or reload of the SRM6 is 4 long seconds..also the range is almost point blank to be effective.. and that means if your in a slow cat, your not going to be weaving in and out fast... and 4 seconds of waiting around is a big drawback.

[xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx]

It's the next FotM cheese build. Since Streaks are no longer "hold down left click to win" in a Catapult, they've switched to SRM stacking, which has absurd weight to damage values on it. This is among the highest alpha build in the game, and can kill most Mechs in 2-3 volleys. Catapults are face stomping ATLASES, which is downright stupid and very obviously broken. When I'm in a Medium, the volleys cripple my Mech in 1 shot, then I'm dead with the next shot. It takes no effort to stomp anything that moves slowly with this build. It's absolute cheese, but since Piranha can't or apparently won't balance ECM/BAP/Streaks at all, don't expect SRMs to get any attention. Just get used to seeing games half full of Catapults loaded with SRMs.

It goes to show you that Piranha can't balance this game worth a damn and has no idea what they're doing. Either that or they don't care at all. They've basically become Blizzard, a company whois game was always full of meta dime a dozen builds since those are more OP than the rest. You don't pick or make a "build", you just copy the most OP FotM build everyone is using then stomp anyone not using it. Light Mechs also have this issue, since Streaks are so OP compared to any other weapon a Light could use. If you are a Light with no Streaks, don't even bother trying to fight anyone that has them. You won't win. There's no chance. This is all bad game design, where the concept of balance between choices in the game simply does not exist.

There's also the Cataphract sniper builds. I was in a game a few days ago where half the enemy team(4, no less), was Cataphracts, and they were all full with ER PPCs and Gauss Rifles. I guess this is the thing to build though if you want long range, since LRMs are still sucking Piranha's fish rod. It's funny how Piranha intends Mechs for certain roles, then no one follows it since their balance is such trash. The Catapult for instance, is not designed for brawling. But since you OP the Streaks/Srms and make the LRMs useless, guess what, it's a brawling Mech now. The Cataphract is the brawler, but since sniping is so much more effective than LRMs now, guess what, it's a long range Mech now. They've been reversed in the meta, clearly an example of logical game design.

Edited by Bluten, 27 February 2013 - 06:03 PM.

[Ironbound]

Reread the original post everybody who's paying attention, I have two ideas I posted when this got popular to fix it and would love the conversation to shift that way.

[Zerstorer Stallin]

Doc Holliday, on 27 February 2013 - 05:48 PM, said:

I don't think you're kidding. I think you're wrong. Stacking is not the problem. The problem is players don't know how to beat one-dimensional stacked builds. Here's a hint for you: stacking too many of the same weapon type ALWAYS leaves you with a big glaring weakness. Figure out what it is with every weapon and you'll be just fine.

Delusional at best. The maps are small except for Alpine, and any 2 year old can pilot a 90k mech into short range. Saying this just shows how you think the TT can be used to counter a OP problem in a FPS. Get over it.

"stack" this with a 4 man either running sniper support or more splat kats and you are even more off than you can imagine. Your stuck on the idea of one on one or like i said crap that works on the TT not in a FPS.

Edited by Zerstorer Stallin, 27 February 2013 - 06:04 PM.

[HC Ret]

if you have a XL 300+ in a cat to get the speed ill kill you with 2 shots with my CN9-A

[Zerstorer Stallin]

HC Ret, on 27 February 2013 - 06:04 PM, said:

if you have a XL 300+ in a cat to get the speed ill kill you with 2 shots with my CN9-A

yes another mech that boats srms, in this case 3 srm 6's. I'm shocked.

[xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx]

Doc Holliday, on 27 February 2013 - 05:48 PM, said:

I don't think you're kidding. I think you're wrong. Stacking is not the problem. The problem is players don't know how to beat one-dimensional stacked builds. Here's a hint for you: stacking too many of the same weapon type ALWAYS leaves you with a big glaring weakness. Figure out what it is with every weapon and you'll be just fine.

There is no way to beat it. That's why it's OP. If a Catapult is in your face with 6x SRMs, and you're not in a very fast Mech, you're pretty much dead. There is nothing you can do. Lack of range isn't even an issue unless they pop on Alpine... that map that shows up maybe 1 out of every 30 games. Similarly, snipers can still shoot close range, so unless you're fast, they can still fight. You speak of "glaring weaknesses", well I'd sure like to know what they are, because as far as I know, they don't exist. If you're lucky, you might explode a Gauss and kill them first, but I wouldn't call that a "glaring weakness".

The only real weapons with glaring weaknesses are Streaks and LRMs. Which is why people don't use LRMs anymore and only Lights take the Streaks.

Edited by Bluten, 27 February 2013 - 06:09 PM.

[Crazy Billy Joe Bob]

I think if they just adjust the cat a1 to limited smaller engines that keep them at 60mph speeds then the playing field is more level, since the cat will not be able to move away while it is reloading, it is a lot of time to take them down. Problem solved.

[Nostram]

Bluten, on 27 February 2013 - 06:07 PM, said:

The only real weapons with glaring weaknesses are Streaks and LRMs. Which is why people don't use LRMs anymore and only Lights take the Streaks.

My A1 has both LRM's and Streaks.

[BlackAce]

The Cat has a max of 64 armor points on its center torso and any A1 driver with an ounce of brains is packing at least a 300XL. Not only that, the head hit box is plum in the center. The A1 is by far the most fragile heavy in the game and it's utterly useless beyond 270M. It's at it's strongest using jump jets and surprise, but in a one on one brawl with another heavy, the outcome is going to be purely down to which pilot is the better shot.... and few Splat drivers are good shots....

[Zordicron]

ChrisOrange, on 27 February 2013 - 10:14 AM, said:

Also here's another tip for your OP.

Make sure to have a funny saying or witty quip pasted to your clipboard. Every time you kill someone you induce the maximum rage.

"killed because you're bad"
"skill kill"
"you're a garbage can"
"i'm the best player in the world"

Then when they type back at you in rage....make sure you are ready to point out how they are whining crybaby or just a tryhard-buttmad. Now you're on your way!!!

this made me lol
To improve effectiveness, alter all sayings to use l33tz

for instance, "ski11 ki11z"

Also, Tryhard-buttmad! (I picture that SNL skit where "Sean Connory" is playing jeopardy and yells Buck Futter! at trebec, except with tryhard-buttmad)

[Zordicron]

I didnt read this whole thread.
Answer: Catapult needs reduction in torso twist. it is supposed to have a weakness in that area because it has NO ARMS. Instead, I see them looking backwards while running away from me and using their alpha strike at me. BECAUSE I AM SUPPOSED TO USE COVER AND DODGE FIRE WHILE ON A MECH'S SIX!! Come on, thats just stupid.

Also, compared to dragon or phracts, it really feels like catapults can run as fast as dragons, while packing the firepower of a phract, or more. dragons can be speedy, but dont have that kind of firepower, and phracts are clunky to drive and act like small assault mechs compared to a pult's maneuverability. it's like others have said, theres too much plus, and no minus.

[Tempered]

What is a "skillcat" ?

[Reported for Inappropriate Name]

I used to do this with dual gauss. but it's still here!

so i learned that nobody cares, and that I really enjoy dual gauss.

be careful op or the splatcat might grow on you!

[Verbrand]

The catapult chasis is supposed to be all about the huge torso twist range, it's supposed to be one of the chasis main characteristics.

The Catapult still is the glass cannon it was meant to be.

[XX Sulla XX]

I am on the side othe the catapults just having to much upside. All mechs should have a nice balance of pros and cons. The Catapult just seems to have a few extra pros than it should.