133 replies to this topic

[Vapor Trail]

Penance, on 27 February 2013 - 12:37 PM, said:

no jams..but then again, this isn't about the Uac5...op made it about ppc vs ac10

UAC/5 firing single shots. Cycle time is less than half that of the AC/10 (higher DPS and lower HPS) at better range.

Only downside is that you're spreading damage. Which could be looked at as both positive and negative. If you miss your target component with one shot, you've only lost 5 damage with the UAC/5. If you miss with the /10 it's like missing twice with the 5.

[Elandyll]

As someone who has been trying various things on a K2 (mostly always coming back to either Dual Gauss or Gauss + ERPPC), I have to admit that having spectated a guy in a K2 with Dual AC10 and 4xML, I have been mightily impressed by the results.

Still need to test it out sometime though.

[Spawnsalot]

Got to say, I've had some good results with AC/10s in my 'phract 4x (not that I can fit PPCs to the 4x) - 2 AC/10s, 2 MGs, 2 MLAS, SSRM2, a ton of ammo for the MGs and SSRMS, ~4 for the ACs, a 240 STD engine and 11 DHS with endosteel and max armour (-1 on each leg)

The build is off the top of my head and might be slightly different when I check it.

Boom!

Click.


Clack.

[Zerstorer Stallin]

hammerreborn, on 27 February 2013 - 10:40 AM, said:

Because while the PPC may way 7 tons, you still have to spend another 5 to make that **** fire without cooking you alive (obviously not intended to be a true mathematical statement).

Basically, heat.

Welll this'nt quite true as the large engines already have more HS in them, added on top of DH's and this solves alot a problems. What you seem to be saying here is if I have 4 of them then you need to add more HS. See fixed it!!

[Vodrin Thales]

Vapor Trail, on 27 February 2013 - 02:55 PM, said:

UAC/5 firing single shots. Cycle time is less than half that of the AC/10 (higher DPS and lower HPS) at better range.

Only downside is that you're spreading damage. Which could be looked at as both positive and negative. If you miss your target component with one shot, you've only lost 5 damage with the UAC/5. If you miss with the /10 it's like missing twice with the 5.

The one other factor you are forgetting with the UAC5 is that you need to continue facing your target continuously to squeeze optimal DPS out of the weapon. Harder hitting weapons like the AC10 with slower recycle times allow you to turn away from the target between volleys without sacrificing DPS. For certain mechs this is essential to increase survivability.

[Larth]

My take on this is it makes a nice short to mid range weapon. A UAC fires faster and a ERPPC has a few benefits as well. However, the AC/10 (and hopefully one day the LBX 10 once both ammos are allowed) are nice for that in between range.

UAC can end up spreading damage or jamming. If jamming is taken into account, does that mean the UAC is actually closer (if not equal - dps wise) to an AC/10 due to time being unable to do anything with it? Even if you miss the selected location, that's still 10 points gone from another location. As for the ammo bit, well UAC/5 has 25 shots and an AC/10 has 15. Takes two UAC/5 shots to equal the damage of one AC/10....so it actually has a bit less ammo in a way.

Really the only big advantage an AC/10 has over an (ER)PPC is that it runs cooler and damage drop off at range is less. Generally if fighting mid to short range, I find that overheating usually leads to death or taking a lot more damage than you normally would. So those multiple PPC's might be lined up for the perfect shot, but if that shot turns out to not be enough and you overheat...you just might end up being the dead one.

It's like anything: balance. Every weapon has it's place. I won't say they are the best weapon, but they are good.

On a completely sidenote, pretty much by the 3050 TT books, AC/5's and AC/10's had practically been phased out replaced by their UAC and LBX counterparts. If they do change the LBX ammo, well, the stock AC/10 will go the way of the stock AC/5, kinda like the dinosaurs.

[Padic]

Vodrin Thales, on 27 February 2013 - 03:40 PM, said:

The one other factor you are forgetting with the UAC5 is that you need to continue facing your target continuously to squeeze optimal DPS out of the weapon. Harder hitting weapons like the AC10 with slower recycle times allow you to turn away from the target between volleys without sacrificing DPS. For certain mechs this is essential to increase survivability.

If AC-10's receive a buff, I hope it isn't by increasing its RoF for exactly this reason.

Even though it would make the nomenclature funny, I would be quite happy to see AC-10's deal a little extra damage per shot.

[DocBach]

Larth, on 27 February 2013 - 03:50 PM, said:

On a completely sidenote, pretty much by the 3050 TT books, AC/5's and AC/10's had practically been phased out replaced by their UAC and LBX counterparts. If they do change the LBX ammo, well, the stock AC/10 will go the way of the stock AC/5, kinda like the dinosaurs.

The LB-10X is suppose to be a direct upgrade to the AC/10 - it weighed a ton less and was more versatile. Its sort of like how Double Heat Sinks became the standard. Once we get slugs my AC/10 is coming off for an LB-X, loaded solely with slugs.

[Larth]

DocBach, more or less what I was round-about implying. Kind of looking forward to that. Always did like the LB-X weapons, prefered them over Ultras. Course I had horrid luck with Ultras. Random chance gun jams and the result is in. Jam. Seriously, my first volley...*sigh*. For MWO, just give us slugs and for the LB-X ammo, well make CT engines and gyros crittable and I'll be LB-X squee heaven again.

[DocBach]

Larth, on 27 February 2013 - 04:26 PM, said:

DocBach, more or less what I was round-about implying. Kind of looking forward to that. Always did like the LB-X weapons, prefered them over Ultras. Course I had horrid luck with Ultras. Random chance gun jams and the result is in. Jam. Seriously, my first volley...*sigh*. For MWO, just give us slugs and for the LB-X ammo, well make CT engines and gyros crittable and I'll be LB-X squee heaven again.

Not sure if we'll get slug ammo, for some reason people don't like the idea that some level 1 equipment gets obsoleted by level 2 equipment, and our IS level 2 equipment is balanced against superior Clan Tech - like the people who freaked out about Double Heat Sinks being "unbalanced" against single heat sinks.

[PoLaR]

I love the feeling of getting a kill shot with an AC/10 to the chest.

Then, that sweet reload sound: "ka-SING!" lol

[Larth]

DocBach, on 27 February 2013 - 04:29 PM, said:

Not sure if we'll get slug ammo, for some reason people don't like the idea that some level 1 equipment gets obsoleted by level 2 equipment, and our IS level 2 equipment is balanced against superior Clan Tech - like the people who freaked out about Double Heat Sinks being "unbalanced" against single heat sinks.

Yeah, I can understand that. Somehow, with them starting in 3048/3049 year seems silly if they are going to do that. You'd think being this close to 3050 and the beginning of the vast majority of the level 2 gear, that it'd begin to make the level 1 semi obsolete. Plus if they throw in Clan tech too. By the time 3055 rolls around, level 1 gear is all but obsolete...well except for srm4+, lrms, and medium lasers...at least for the I.S.

[Spinning Burr]

Vodrin Thales, on 27 February 2013 - 03:40 PM, said:

The one other factor you are forgetting with the UAC5 is that you need to continue facing your target continuously to squeeze optimal DPS out of the weapon. Harder hitting weapons like the AC10 with slower recycle times allow you to turn away from the target between volleys without sacrificing DPS. For certain mechs this is essential to increase survivability.

I've had a memorable duel destroyed by a very good Muromets pilot sporting 3 AC10s. We were doing the circle dance and he would twist his torso and alpha strike me perfectly for 30 points then turn away while recycling. His aim, timing, and rhythm was so good it was sick. Not a moment's hesitation to look, aim, fire, turn, twist away torso, and repeat. He took me apart in about 3 volleys.

[ownka]

For brawling, more than a single PPC quickly becomes unsustainiable due to heat. I can fire my autocannons all day long.

[Stringburka]

DocBach, on 27 February 2013 - 04:29 PM, said:

Not sure if we'll get slug ammo, for some reason people don't like the idea that some level 1 equipment gets obsoleted by level 2 equipment, and our IS level 2 equipment is balanced against superior Clan Tech - like the people who freaked out about Double Heat Sinks being "unbalanced" against single heat sinks.

If an option is strictly worse, it's a non-option. Why would they put time and money into putting a piece of equipment in the game if it's completely superfluous?

[Paula Fry]

AC10...just for the Sound of it!

[Aym]

Vasces Diablo, on 27 February 2013 - 10:44 AM, said:

Poor AC 10. Even in its own weapon class, it is has to compete with 2 direct alternatives (ultra AC 5 and LB 10X)

The AC/20 is the direct competitior that only weighs 3 tons more but does twice the damage. LBX10 is currently a non-competitor.

[Arete]

Seriously now. AC10 has greater DPS than PPC at all ranges. It outdamages an ERPPC at all ranges up to 670 meters.

All this for way better heat. Did some quich checks in smurfys, AC10 is 4 DPS with 1.20 HPS. ERPPC is 3.33 DPS with 3.67 HPS. Regular PPC is at 3.33 DPS for 2.67 HPS.

So while your PPC boat overheats, the AC10 can shoot all day and all night. Barring ammo of course. PPCs are for sniping, AC10s are for brawling or long medium range engagements without cover. If you charge an equally armored enemy with PPCs with an AC10 build, and you both shoot at each other while the range closes, the AC10 will eat you up after a few seconds when the PPC build needs to cut down on shooting or overheat, simply because heat generation is far lower.

[Headlessnewt]

AC/10: Good gun, especially on heavier mechs that have some spare weight to throw around.

PPC: Good gun, especially on light mechs that have the ability to run away and cool off, or snipers, who miss at very long range and would waste valuable ammo. Highly boatable, and since overheating isn't actually dangerous aside from shutting you down for a while, boating the crap out of it is very effective.

Gauss Rifle: Good gun. Insanely heavy, but not as bulky as the AC/20. Good range, good damage, amazing heat. Good Sniper gun, but ammo reliant and hard to boat due to weight and bulk.

AC/20: Great gun. Mountable only on L/R torso Ballistic slots. Eats ammo like whoa and runs hot.

Ultra AC/5: Pretty good gun. When it isn't jamming every other shot (ugh) it's got a great RoF and some real intimidation factor, though it also eats ammo like it's going out of style.

AC/5: Meh. Doesn't do enough damage to be fearsome, doesn't have the RoF to keep up. I guess it does do damage to one location, but it does the same damage as a medium laser.

AC/2: Not good, but funny. They don't do any appreciable damage, but people panic when they start getting pounded by ballistic stagger as fast as the AC/2 fires.

LB-10X: No idea, I can't afford 800,000 to try one (or hell, two) that I'm not sure is going to crush nutsacks (like 2xAC/20 or Gauss). Should probably be cheaper.

[MustrumRidcully]

Ballistic Slots are rare on mechs. So it is common for people to try to get "the most" out of them. If you just have just one slot, that's the AC/20 or Gauss Rifle. If you have two or more in one hit location, you either take the biggest single gun, or you pack two, which makes the AC/10 not an option, since it's too big to fit to in any single location.

If you have two or more hit locations available for AC/10, it can become attractive, but only if you don'T have the weight for the heavier options. And you are still competing with the Ultra AC/5, which at least has a superior damage output (considering the weight at least) than the AC/10.

SO overall, the AC/10 sits in a "design space" that makes, despite being not that bad, many other weapons a just as attractive or even better option.