132 replies to this topic

[DegeneratePervert]

BigJim, on 03 March 2013 - 06:20 AM, said:

I'm sure you do matie, and I'm sure that in the background, Gauss always did explode, but that matters little to the discussion here - the thread is about the Raven (by which we all know we mean the 3L with ECM and Streaks).


In the course of the discussion, you made the fair comment that once, the K2 gausscat was very popular (and unsaid, but I know what you mean) that it gained a lot of undue criticism.

However, the conclusion, that because Gausscat numbers dwindled "naturally" then that the Raven numbers will likley dwindle I believe, is a non-sequiter.

1) The gausscat didn't dwindle naturally, it as due to specific changes in the design of the game, and that

2) It matters not if it were a Raven, a Jenner-D (before ECM got pulled), or the new Hero-Cada (if it had ECM which it won't), the combination of ECM and Streaks (as they work now) is simply unbeatable among lights, such that any other scout build is a joke, just a bad joke that has no place outside the most casual of casual pug drops).
Just like the Gausscat now becoming the Gaussphract, the actual chassis doesn't matter - it's the build that hurts.

Now I'm not against Gausscas or Phracts or anything, they're just another option, but I dislike the Streak/ECm combo because nothing else can even begin to compete.
If you're a scout and not in a Raven 3L you're better off discoing before the match begins.

I sincerely wish this wasn't the case, and I've spent nearly 4000 matches since Open beta began trying to disprove this, but sadly, it's just a fact.
The odd anecdote about some guy who got a few kills with SRMs are just that - an odd anecdote.

Nonsense. I kill many 3Ls with my Jenner D... just get behind the ravens, and 2x SRM4 + 4 Medium Lasers does the trick. Or just use my JJs to outmaneuver them if they try to brawl with me.

[Wispsy]

Zerstorer Stallin, on 03 March 2013 - 01:07 PM, said:

why in hades would a jenner pilot use SSRMs? So he cant fire them around all the 3Ls?

I think you missed something important.

[Lord Rip]

The only problem is a lack of knockdowns. Bring those back and you will see a LOT less lights including Ravens.

[PPO Kuro]

When collision is back I think we will see less Cravens. Mostly because most Craven pilots are drunk drivers and smash into every enemy mech they see. When they're face down with everyone shooting at them ppl won't like them as much. Atleast I hope so

[BigJim]

DegeneratePervert, on 03 March 2013 - 01:10 PM, said:

Nonsense. I kill many 3Ls with my Jenner D... just get behind the ravens, and 2x SRM4 + 4 Medium Lasers does the trick. Or just use my JJs to outmaneuver them if they try to brawl with me.

Well nice, and best of luck to you - but for everyone's sake don't take that Jenner to a real match.

You say you kill plenty of Ravens with that SRM-Jenn, I say those guys are significantly worse Light pilots than you, because no Raven pilot worth his salt should be losing to a Jenn with the way the game is now.

Once upon a time? Yes, the Jenn was king (and I long for those days to come back) but now? Not a chance.
The only times a Jenn has killed me in my Raven have been when I've been playing silly pug matches, and I've gotten myself cored by an actual opponent (Raven) and then a Jenn has had a lucky shot on my CT or side torso or something, because I've pushed my luck too far.

But a fair fight? A classic 1v1 situation? It's not even a fight.
And that isn't me being big-headed or anything, it's just a measure of how much stronger the Raven's equipment is than the Jenner's.

[verybad]

Sorry, but the Raven combo of speed, good kit locations, ECM, and SSRM2s make it a problem. If leaves all other lights in the cold.

[Skaroth]

BigJim, on 03 March 2013 - 02:59 PM, said:

Well nice, and best of luck to you - but for everyone's sake don't take that Jenner to a real match.

You say you kill plenty of Ravens with that SRM-Jenn, I say those guys are significantly worse Light pilots than you, because no Raven pilot worth his salt should be losing to a Jenn with the way the game is now.

Once upon a time? Yes, the Jenn was king (and I long for those days to come back) but now? Not a chance.
The only times a Jenn has killed me in my Raven have been when I've been playing silly pug matches, and I've gotten myself cored by an actual opponent (Raven) and then a Jenn has had a lucky shot on my CT or side torso or something, because I've pushed my luck too far.

But a fair fight? A classic 1v1 situation? It's not even a fight.
And that isn't me being big-headed or anything, it's just a measure of how much stronger the Raven's equipment is than the Jenner's.

That and their 4 modules, should you choose to fill them.

I prefer to play the jenner when I want to play lights... but they are not nearly as good as the 3 Cheeze L. Competitive play would allow for no other light, JJ are good but not ecm good.

Edited by Skaroth, 03 March 2013 - 03:15 PM.

[Monky]

Streaks using ECM is the problem, fast speed on lights is something they need, survivable hitboxes is something they need.

[Orkdung]

Considering when Clan mechs come into play, you'll be begging for that 3L back. It's fine. This is a beta, wait until the rest of the candy has been passed out before screaming NERF!!!!!!!!

[HRR Insanity]

Asmosis, on 03 March 2013 - 05:05 AM, said:

They die in a single well placed srm volley, like any other light mech. With the upcoming netcode fixes, will hopefully be able to do that with a bit more consistency. It helps that they like to circle at 30-80m for some reason too.

You should not be able to kill a light with a 'single well place SRM volley'. SRMs need adjustment as much as SSRMs and ECM.

SRMs should come out in ripple fire.
ECM should be implemented as in MW4.
SSRMs should have their lock mechanic changed to require continuous guidance.

[Easyvue]

Herds of 3Ls are a death sentence, too much overlapping ECM bubbles for PPCs to have any affect. ECM should weigh closer to 5 tons for what it does or it should be something you activate and has a cooldown. Don't the devs see that the only lights used are the ones with ECM and notice a problem?

[Mongoose Trueborn]

The problem is netcode and hitboxes.

[BigJim]

Mongoose Trueborn, on 03 March 2013 - 04:18 PM, said:

The problem is netcode and hitboxes.

It really isn't though - The poster several pages above debunked that myth with ease.

If it had *anything* to do with hitboxes, the Raven 2x and 4x would also be strong mechs, if not 3L strong, then at least comparable to other lights.

But they're not - they're jokes, Kinder-egg toy mechs with no place in anybody's mechbay.
In a sentence, that's why it's not about the netcode & hitboxes, nor has ever been about the netcode & hitboxes.

Edited by BigJim, 04 March 2013 - 10:12 AM.

[Huron Fal]

The Devs have been piloting 3Ls a lot, which is in my opinion, clear evidence that they are trying to gauge what (if any) difference that a 3L makes when compared to other chassis. I know they have not been exactly forthcoming with this information, but they deserve a little more credit than theyre being given at the moment. Rest assured a rebalance is coming for many many things, the 3L included. One just has to be patient and provide CONSTRUCTIVE criticism / suggestions in order to help the process. Begging for nerf / vehemently arguing against one solves nothing.

As for my 2 cents, as it has been said before; the hitboxes (based on many players' observations) are not registering full damage. I believe this is the foremost problem with the Raven chassis and perhaps other chassis. The 3L takes more heat because, as also stated, it has a "superior" loadout, thus making the problem of the bad hitboxes more noticeable in terms of the 3Ls overall performance.

Sometime far, far down the road I envision a significat reworking of multiple weapon systems and chassis hardpoints as well as a hopefully soon-to-come netcode update. We can only hope for so much so soon in a beta, we must be patient.

[Mongoose Trueborn]

BigJim, on 04 March 2013 - 10:12 AM, said:

It really isn't though - The poster several pages above debunked that myth with ease.

If it had *anything* to do with hitboxes, the Raven 2x and 4x would also be strong mechs, if not 3L strong, then at least comparable to other lights.

But they're not - they're jokes, Kinder-egg toy mechs with no place in anybody's mechbay.
In a sentence, that's why it's not about the netcode & hitboxes, nor has ever been about the netcode & hitboxes.

You aren't good enough to understand how wrong you are.

[PropagandaWar]

I'm with you on how frustratin the 3l is but State rewind goes into effect tomorrow. Knockdowns are supposed to be on course for next month. Steaks well hell I ignore them unless the guys not taking his hits back. Next time your in a game get hit by a raven with streaks a couple of times they do jack the first few shots, (even if you have two ravens on you) and are spreading all over for the most part. When hitboxes are synced up the raven really does blow up. Rear side torso shot them if you can.

[Terror Teddy]

Jestun, on 03 March 2013 - 02:37 AM, said:

However, I don't think it's the mech itself but the combination of the speed, ECM & missile slots, along with lag shield.

Exactly.

ECM needs tweaking
State Rewind needs implementation
Netcode improvement

When we have beta tested the result of the above effects THEN we can discuss if it needs nerfing.

[Havyek]

Reduce SSMR dmg to 2 per missile down from 2.5. Leave SRMs at 2.5 so that there's still a reason to use them over SSRMs.

[Jazzblaster]

So ravens are not overpowered. But all the stuff people put in them is overpowered. Definitely worth it to make that distinction.



Or just say that ravens are overpowered.

[PropagandaWar]

BDU Havoc, on 04 March 2013 - 01:09 PM, said:

Reduce SSMR dmg to 2 per missile down from 2.5. Leave SRMs at 2.5 so that there's still a reason to use them over SSRMs.

I never understood that with streaks. You would think the guidance system would cause it to have less room for firepower. I mean you can shoot people behind you with it. Thats pretty serious hardware lol.