132 replies to this topic

[Dionysia]

The problem seems to be the combination of 4 things 1) max possible speed, 2) ECM, 3) Good armor, 4) Streaks. The other mechs that have 3 of the 4 such as the Cicada 3M and Commando 2D are, in my experience, pretty well balanced. That is, in one on ones away from the main line with other lights and mediums, the better pilot is usually better off. Changing ECM or Streaks affects multiple mechs and could lead to more imbalances. Changing armor maximums would be ad hoc. That leaves lowering the max speed. It is unclear to me why the 3L has a bigger engine than the other raven variants. If it was lowered, the problem would be mostly fixed.

[Corvus Antaka]

The only problem is the engine. If the 3L could only mount a 245-265 engine, and the OTHER ravens could mount 295 engines, then the other ravens would be viable too. Same for the commando 2D, here Id say swap the ECM to the 1B. Also, cutting down to 1 missile port on the 3L and giving 2 to the 2X.

Edited by Colonel Pada Vinson, 03 March 2013 - 08:03 AM.

[Calimaw]

Start a 3L discussion thread and immediately it becomes zerged with opinions from both sides.

It shows you that a lot of people play 3L ( most effective light; arguably ), and a lot of people hate fighting the 3L.
That says something.

[KingCobra]

The OP is right don't nerf the ravens there doing there job. Just make the ECM bubble smaller maybe 0-100 meters and it will fix a lot of the problems. Other mech pilots will say hey MR.Raven stay close to cover us with your ECM if he wanders off to hunt he will die alone and becomes a easy target. Also with the ECM make the ECM where it has to recharge and does not offer blanket protection constantly maybe 15 seconds on 15 seconds recharge that way the raven and other ecm mechs wont be so bold about going it solo.

Edited by KingCobra, 03 March 2013 - 08:22 AM.

[Skaroth]

loliza, on 03 March 2013 - 04:21 AM, said:

there is only advantages yday on my splatcat i had a raven 3l in my sights i aplhaed it first from 160 m ofc big spread on the 90 dmg i think maybe 30-50% of the alpha hit while i have srm6x6 on cd i move in closer for the kill and get to shoot this raven from 30 m with him being in the center of the reticule(or w/e) full aplha 90 dmg from 30 m on a stationary raven he dropped to 90% hp and started running took circles and killed me NOW DONT SAY RAVEN ISNT BROKEN i wish i had the fraps mov to prove it will try to get a lip weiht fraps of this insane dmg soak ravens have

I have had this happen an multiple occasions. SRMs, lasers, AC's all "hitting" red reticle, flashing armor in target display and armor "glow" in game, yet no real damage to the 3L.

[Taemien]

They aren't going to nerf the Raven. The only way they could nerf the 3L is make it stock only. But they can't reduce hardpoints as it has the bare minimum for its stock config.

They could lock in the torso forward and it would still do what it does now.

[Dr Killinger]

The combination of ECM and Streaks highlight the issue that Streaks are the way to kill lights. In a light vs light fight, Streaks win.

That said, the Raven has some serious hitbox issues.

[Josef Nader]

The devs have already said they aren't touching the Raven until netcode fixes are dropped in and ECM gets looked at. I still feel like the Raven's nosecone hitboxes need to be fixed, but that would fix the biggest problem with the Raven.

Edited by Josef Nader, 03 March 2013 - 09:02 AM.

[PoLaR]

I will always ***** about the 3L until It's fixed.

Balance in this game doesn't bother me much, but that Raven Is madness.

[LordBraxton]

make its whole beak CT

at the very least for the poor jenny pilots I one shot every day with heavy weapons.

case closed!

Edited by LordBraxton, 03 March 2013 - 09:14 AM.

[Hawks]

BigJim, on 03 March 2013 - 06:20 AM, said:

If you're a scout and not in a Raven 3L you're better off discoing before the match begins.

QFT

Unless and until the issue is resolved, there is literally no point whatsoever in PGI even bothering to design any further light mechs (unless they themselves also have SSRM, ECM, and severe hitbox issues). It will be a waste of time, effort and resources, because they simply won't get used in any great numbers (aside from the initial novelty value).

[Livebait]

Humm, no one is trying to "nerf" anything. Players want the screwy hit boxes fixed.

And as for the Jenner being a feared mech, a big fat "no" it never was. Not in closed or open beta. You needed skill to be feared but that was the pilot not the mech.

[TheFlyingScotsman]

ObsidianSpectre, on 03 March 2013 - 02:36 AM, said:

Seriously everyone, just stop. The Raven 3L is not the problem. There've been a number of threads lately demanding nerfs for it, and it's the wrong target.

Think about it. 3 months ago, Ravens were rarely spotted. It was the Jenner everyone feared, and running a Raven just got your teammates to ask why you weren't in a Jenner. Ask yourselves, what changed that made the 3L start looking overpowered? What's the one change that happened that suddenly made them popular and so powerful on the battlefield?

This is an easy question, you should all get the correct answer.

I'm terrified that some developers might see all the threads asking for nerfs for the 3L and think "Oh hey, that's all we need to do, and then everything will be balanced!". Then they'll do it, and the problem won't be solved, and instead a bigger mess will be made of it. Next we'll have to deal with a bunch of threads demanding nerfs for the COM-2D. And after that, we'll need to nerf CDA-3Ms or SDR-5Ds, with extra complaints when they have JR7-D backup. And if the real problem ever does get fixed, then all those nerfs we piled on make all the affected mechs underpowered jokes.

What I'm saying is, please consider carefully what you target for nerfing.

I agree that the Raven does not need to be nerfed, rather, it needs to be fixed. As it stands, the Raven takes signifigantly (or completely) mitigated damage due to faulty hitboxes. The issue is probably the same issue that prevents legs with too many parts from taking full damage. (A known issue set to be fixed 3/5)

It just need some TLC so that when you shoot it, it actually takes the correct amount of damage.

[BigJim]

Hawks, on 03 March 2013 - 09:20 AM, said:

Unless and until the issue is resolved, there is literally no point whatsoever in PGI even bothering to design any further light mechs (unless they themselves also have SSRM, ECM, and severe hitbox issues). It will be a waste of time, effort and resources, because they simply won't get used in any great numbers (aside from the initial novelty value).

This man has put his finger on it - Not only is the balance out of whack (imho like Polar I don't think anything in this game is particularly bad other than the Raven's confluence of broken Streaks and powerful ECM), but on top of that, PGI have wasted all the man-hours and resources that went into the Jenner, Commando, and Spider.

If it isn't sorted, the Flea will also be wasted, and every other Light in the game.

None of those other Lights are worth a crap as long as the Raven wears the crown, and the really sad thing is, it would only take a minor tweak of Streak missiles to do it.

Not even the weapon-code, just the projectile properties - just to put the values back to how they were in closed beta, and then bam! All those other Lights we have can compete with the Raven, and suddenly there are reasons to be a Jenner pilot, a Spider pilot, a Cicada pilot, whatever...

It just to sad to see such wanton stupidity ruin an otherwise brilliant game, just like it's sad to see stupidity ruin any good thing in this world.

Edited by BigJim, 03 March 2013 - 09:51 AM.

[Mystere]

Humans will always seek to destroy anything they cannot comprehend or control. It is their nature.

[Mavairo]

The raven isn't that bad.

ECM is a problem though. It should never have been allowed to stack.

What they should do is at least give the dragon the ability to trip mechs again. There's no reason that a raven should be able to run head long into a 60 ton mech with the Raven moving at 150 and the Dragon at 107.. and the raven survive it let alone, not even fall over.

It should be like a little sports car, ramming into a high speed train.

[Sug]

TheFlyingScotsman, on 03 March 2013 - 09:49 AM, said:

It just need some TLC so that when you shoot it, it actually takes the correct amount of damage.

I shot a shutdown raven in the foot and hit its arm. I'd say they have some slight hitbox issues.

[Calimaw]

In a 1 v 1 against another ECM 'mech, a 3L has 2 Medium Lasers, 2 SSRM(2) [300 Ammunition], 1 TAG, 232 Armor, 150.2 KPH, 4.12 sustained DPS (elited), and DOES NOT have to switch from Disrupt to use SSRM(2).

Take a look at this...
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...5474f8498136857

That's insane...
In fact... I'm going to farm a Mastered 3L, and absolutely destroy people to the point that it cannot be ignored.
Find me in my 2X or 4X, because once I finish my 3L you won't want to see me on the radar.

[TheFlyingScotsman]

Please stop blaming the ECM for the Raven's hitbox shortcomings. While I think folding the three ECM functions into a single module was a pretty bad balance decision (Though I'm not a dev, and I'm sure they had their reasons), the problem with the Raven is not the ECM.

Time and time against, it has been shown that Ravens have faulty hitboxes. (The most obvious example is striking a raven with an ERPPC, dealing no or tiny damage and yet shutting down their ECM.)

Please stop complaining about ECMs, as they are merely an aspect of the game, and one that savvy streak or LRM users can still circumvent when done correctly anyway. Learn to react to them, and understand that the current >BETA< version of the Raven does not function as intended.

Trust me, the Devs both know and are working on fixing it. Programming takes a lot of time and precision, and more importantly, testing and revision.

Coding is a cruel and fickle mistress.

Edited by TheFlyingScotsman, 03 March 2013 - 10:22 AM.

[Spinning Burr]

Joseph Mallan, on 03 March 2013 - 05:32 AM, said:

And they won't change anything, that they already didn't plan to change.

GaussCat were once all the rage. Couldn't drop without seeing 3 per team. PGI Did nothing to Nerf them. You don't see them very often any more.

Sure they did. They nerfed the gauss rifle to be fragile and explosive. Now a K-2 cat with dual gauss in side torsos is an easy kill if you sneak on it. This is why the gaussapults have evolved into dual AC20 cats, which are much more balanced mechs to face.