100 replies to this topic

[Royalewithcheese]

I am, on 04 March 2013 - 11:51 AM, said:

Or let me rephrase it like this.

"If the game had a tournament of 1v1 matches in this Atlas DDC, and the 1st place prize was $100,000.00, how would you configure your DDC?" Picture a gladiator arena, with little to no cover and two gates opening upward at the same time as the contestants enter the arena.

I dunno - my current build is this. I haven't really tested the SRM4s and the lower arm/leg armor, so it might end up being terrible. Mostly I'm just experimenting at this point so I'm not the best person to ask about "the" DDC build, but to my understanding most of the top builds go with some combination of a STD300-350 engine, 2xUAC5/AC20/Gauss for the ballistic slot, SRM6 and SRM4 with or without Artemis in the missile slots, Medium Lasers/Large Lasers in the energy slots, and ECM. Each build has its own unique advantages and disadvantages (AC/20 + 3xSRM6 has a really good alpha, you can get better heat management with a slower engine + no endo steel + a bunch of double heatsinks, and so on) but really DDC is an amazing robot and you can't go wrong with any of the "main" builds.

Edited by Royalewithcheese, 04 March 2013 - 01:06 PM.

[I am]

Royalewithcheese, on 04 March 2013 - 01:04 PM, said:

I dunno - my current build is this. I haven't really tested the SRM4s and the lower arm/leg armor, so it might end up being terrible. Mostly I'm just experimenting at this point so I'm not the best person to ask about "the" DDC build, but to my understanding most of the top builds go with some combination of a STD300-350 engine, 2xUAC5/AC20/Gauss for the ballistic slot, SRM6 and SRM4 with or without Artemis in the missile slots, Medium Lasers/Large Lasers in the energy slots, and ECM. Each build has its own unique advantages and disadvantages (AC/20 + 3xSRM6 has a really good alpha, you can get better heat management with a slower engine + no endo steel + a bunch of double heatsinks, and so on) but really DDC is an amazing robot and you can't go wrong with any of the "main" builds.

That's similiar to you other, seems you really like the 2xuac5? Also what is the mechlab heat efficiency on that? I dont understand that sites heat index in ratio to the in-game index. (sorry im asking so many questions ) I saw a weird one today, a guy had a uac5 + gauss on his ddc. He did not do well, but the other team was destroying us all, so it probably wasnt his build that was the problem. Thoughts?

[Royalewithcheese]

I am, on 04 March 2013 - 01:16 PM, said:

That's similiar to you other, seems you really like the 2xuac5? Also what is the mechlab heat efficiency on that? I dont understand that sites heat index in ratio to the in-game index. (sorry im asking so many questions ) I saw a weird one today, a guy had a uac5 + gauss on his ddc. He did not do well, but the other team was destroying us all, so it probably wasnt his build that was the problem. Thoughts?

Oh yeah it's the same build

IMO 2xUAC5 is pretty amazing because of the damage output. Those things have basically the same DPS (each) as an AC20, more if you double-tap them. The range is also really nice - it's in Gauss Rifle/PPC territory. Not everyone likes them because the jams make them somewhat unreliable tho.

Heat-wise, the "standard" DDC builds (which I'd categorize mine as falling into) tend to overheat in about 10 seconds if you fire all your weapons at once, but you usually only need to use 1-2 of your weapon groups at once (which ones depends on what you're fighting) once you start to get into the red heat-wise.

[SniperCzar]

I've been running this build since closed beta, and I can count on one hand the number of brawls I've lost with it. Depending on your facehugging skills you can take down two or three Assaults before you get taken out (my personal bests are three full health Atlases entering Forest's cave together, and 7 heavies in a different match), if you can torso twist while closing in on someone and get one or two shots in at the 10-20m knife fighting range it's pretty much a sure kill. SRM Stalkers are about the only thing that can go toe to toe with you, and even then you're faster and better armored.

Here's a more recent fast ECM version.

[Sir Wulfrick]

2 x PPC
3 x SRM-6 with Artemis.
ECM
BAP
20 x double heat sinks
330 (ish) standard engine.
Modules to suit.

Works wonders.

[I am]

Sniper, you jsut took everything I thought I learned so far from this thread and turned it upside down. Thank you, and scratching my head. LBX and low armor? Who would have thought.

[Hawkwings]

Nobody. Because it's a terrible idea. An AC20 does just as much damage as two LBX10s, but actually to one spot, and it weighs less too.

[Coltaine]

My DC:

325 standard engine
ECM
Artemis
1x AC/20
3x SRM6
2x MLAS
18x Double Heatsinks
4x AC/20 ammo
3x SRM6 ammo
leg armor reduced to 33
arm armor reduced to 51

Works great so far and is fast enough for my taste. It will barely overheat if I don't get on a rampage and fire all weapons all the time. Artemis gives my SRM6 more range. Sometimes SRM ammo will run out first but usually it has enough ammo for a full match. I'll try the 350 std engine variant in the future though but I think it will not run as cool as my current version so it has to wait until I bought the other stuff I want to have. I really need more cbills

To compensate the reduced armor with pure awesomeness I painted the whole Atlas obsidian black and put more red light into the eye sockets. Works very good on snow maps where it says "I'm so awesome, I don't need camo!" to the enemy.

Overall a wonderful brawling death machine

Edited by Coltaine, 04 March 2013 - 07:48 PM.

[RLBell]

I am still experimenting with mine:

300std engine
Endosteel
2 Large lasers
2 LB-10X (4 tons ammo)
3 SRM6 (2 tons ammo)
ECM
AMS (1 ton ammo)
14 DHS
gently polished off two tons of armor to make it fit

The two LB-10X`s have a longer range than the AC 20, do less damage as the pellets miss, but cycle in a little bit less time.

[Elessar]

My DDC had 6 SRM6+Artemis, 2 M-Pulse and 1 Gauss, when I still usd it as a brawler.
Usually was a rather nasty surprise for anyone coming near it and nevertheless wasn´t totally useless at longer ranges, thanks to its Gauss.

In light of Alpine and the coming Desert map I changed it however, to a more versatile build with regards to distances

[I am]

Elessar, on 04 March 2013 - 10:46 PM, said:

My DDC had 6 SRM6+Artemis, 2 M-Pulse and 1 Gauss, when I still usd it as a brawler.
Usually was a rather nasty surprise for anyone coming near it and nevertheless wasn´t totally useless at longer ranges, thanks to its Gauss.

In light of Alpine and the coming Desert map I changed it however, to a more versatile build with regards to distances

Do you recall how many DHS you had, your heat index in the mech lab, what your armor was, how much ammo you used? It is funny you should mention this specific build.

Coltaine, on 04 March 2013 - 07:47 PM, said:

My DC:

325 standard engine
ECM
Artemis
1x AC/20
3x SRM6
2x MLAS
18x Double Heatsinks
4x AC/20 ammo
3x SRM6 ammo
leg armor reduced to 33
arm armor reduced to 51

Works great so far and is fast enough for my taste. It will barely overheat if I don't get on a rampage and fire all weapons all the time. Artemis gives my SRM6 more range. Sometimes SRM ammo will run out first but usually it has enough ammo for a full match. I'll try the 350 std engine variant in the future though but I think it will not run as cool as my current version so it has to wait until I bought the other stuff I want to have. I really need more cbills

To compensate the reduced armor with pure awesomeness I painted the whole Atlas obsidian black and put more red light into the eye sockets. Works very good on snow maps where it says "I'm so awesome, I don't need camo!" to the enemy.

Overall a wonderful brawling death machine

Interested in seeing my options with a 325. Need more money first.

Edited by I am, 04 March 2013 - 11:38 PM.

[Royalewithcheese]

Update, since this seems to be the Post Your DDC Builds Megathread now: messed around with the 3xSRM4s, and first impressions are I actually really like them. The grouping is tight enough that as far as I can tell more of them hit outside of facehug/sweetspot, meaning it actually might be more damage for less heat and ammo at most ranges. The heat management aspect is also nice (especially since I'm running more DHS because of the lighter weight) - gives me more chances to fire my lasers. Two things I miss:

1. Sheer damage potential. SRM6s are brutal at facehug and sweetspot distance. These still hit hard, but not quite as hard at those specific distances.

2. Shotgun effect on lights. These are still good for that, but not as good.

Edited by Royalewithcheese, 04 March 2013 - 11:49 PM.

[I am]

Royalewithcheese, on 04 March 2013 - 11:49 PM, said:

Update, since this seems to be the Post Your DDC Builds Megathread now: messed around with the 3xSRM4s, and first impressions are I actually really like them. The grouping is tight enough that as far as I can tell more of them hit outside of facehug/sweetspot, meaning it actually might be more damage for less heat and ammo at most ranges. The heat management aspect is also nice (especially since I'm running more DHS because of the lighter weight) - gives me more chances to fire my lasers. Two things I miss:

1. Sheer damage potential. SRM6s are brutal at facehug and sweetspot distance. These still hit hard, but not quite as hard at those specific distances.

2. Shotgun effect on lights. These are still good for that, but not as good.

Royale, I tested all day, and spent all the money I made to test some more. I sold everything in my mech lab to test as much as I could, as fast as I could. I finally hit what I consider to be the jackpot. I know everyones idea of what the best brawler is, is relative. For me, I think I have struck gold. I have you and the other posters of this thread to thank.

You have my appreciation, and my respect. I cant wait to field test it some more tomorrow. I netted 2-4 kills on average, across 5 games, and had between 500 and 900 damage per game. When I started playing, not long ago, I was lucky if I broke 50 damage. I am glad I asked alot of questions, and learned from the experience of yourself, and the other members of this fine community.

o7 Here is to you.

[SniperCzar]

Hawkwings, on 04 March 2013 - 06:45 PM, said:

Nobody. Because it's a terrible idea. An AC20 does just as much damage as two LBX10s, but actually to one spot, and it weighs less too.

An AC20 creates 1.5x as much heat and has a noticeably longer reload (almost twice as long), for close to 40% less DPS. Ammo per ton on a pair of LB10s is about equal. AC20s at very close range require you to take extra time and aim. Additionally AC20s are straight up horrible at crits. A pair of LB10s with the crit buff will do an average of 20 points of internal damage at close range. An AC20 can only ever do 10 points internal damage to a component at a 40% chance to crit unless you're aiming at another AC20 with 18 HP. That comes out to an average of 4 internal damage per shot, and even that is misleading because when you think about a standard engagement, you're unlikely to land a crit before you just destroy the component it's housed in.

When you're going up against another heavy or assault and drop their armor, you're likely going to need more than one shot to disable the weapon you're going for. Probably 3-4 shots if they have a lot of heatsinks or other weapons, and your odds of hitting a one slot pocket of ammo are about nil. At that point you've already done 60-80 damage and taken their arm/shoulder off so it's a moot point. It takes you about 12 seconds to finish off a component on an assault mech, and that's assuming you aim all your shots carefully. Meanwhile your enemy can continue to unload on you or just turn and shield himself every time you finish reloading and let you shoot at his arms. Not the best for brawling. Whereas if I take out your side armor with 50-60 damage point blank to the side torso from both LB10s and SRMs, the bleed through is probably going to do ~15-25 spread among your internals. Less than 3 seconds after that, before your AC20 has a chance to reload, I can fire just the LB10s and based on its sheer slot size, statistically it will have taken 18 damage and been totally disabled. At this point I can wait one more second on my SRMs to wait for the LB10s to recycle, and then I have another 60 damage alpha ready and waiting to either rip the shoulder off or just start on the other side. See what I'm getting at here? Crits really do matter in a brawling situation, ESPECIALLY when you're facing off against multiple mechs and you need to cripple them as fast as physically possible before they rip your CT armor off.

Granted the AC20 still has the edge in the 50-270m range, but that's what the huge engine and ECM are for. Really the best part about the shotties though once I get close is I don't have to aim.

[Royalewithcheese]

The plot thickens on "which SRM is best SRM?" - apparently Artemis gives them a new flight path as of this patch!

[Wrenchfarm]

I am, on 04 March 2013 - 02:36 PM, said:

Sniper, you jsut took everything I thought I learned so far from this thread and turned it upside down. Thank you, and scratching my head. LBX and low armor? Who would have thought.

I wouldn't run that build on a bet. Don't follow any of that advice, I have no idea what world Sniper is living in to claim he's won 3-vs-1 battles with that hunk of junk.

I don't normally come in hot on other people's builds, what works for me might be different from what works from you, but that thing is the biggest pile of crap I've ever seen. Paper tissue armour on the legs and arms, not even full on the chest? No pinpoint damage at all? Ammo (crucial to doing any damage) stored in the chest without CASE? 22.5 trigger pulls from the main weapon, 16 from the SRMs with NO backup?

That build is one of the worst I've ever seen that wasn't a straight up joke. I would LOVE to run into it in game and out-brawl it in my Cent.

[SniperCzar]

Wrenchfarm, on 05 March 2013 - 01:11 PM, said:

I wouldn't run that build on a bet. Don't follow any of that advice, I have no idea what world Sniper is living in to claim he's won 3-vs-1 battles with that hunk of junk.

I don't normally come in hot on other people's builds, what works for me might be different from what works from you, but that thing is the biggest pile of crap I've ever seen. Paper tissue armour on the legs and arms, not even full on the chest? No pinpoint damage at all? Ammo (crucial to doing any damage) stored in the chest without CASE? 22.5 trigger pulls from the main weapon, 16 from the SRMs with NO backup?

That build is one of the worst I've ever seen that wasn't a straight up joke. I would LOVE to run into it in game and out-brawl it in my Cent.

^ does not at all understand how ALS or crits work

Oh well, I'd love to one shot your cent someday, assuming you're even in the same ELO bracket.

[Wrenchfarm]

SniperCzar, on 05 March 2013 - 02:18 PM, said:

^ does not at all understand how ALS or crits work

Oh well, I'd love to one shot your cent someday, assuming you're even in the same ELO bracket.

Oh I know how crits work, well enough to not bother with LBXs on an Atlas.

I would sincerely love to run into you in any mech I pilot. Sadly I'm quite sure we're not in the same bracket. I'd have to take a pretty sharp nose dive if I was ever going to reach your level.

[SniperCzar]

Wrenchfarm, on 05 March 2013 - 02:43 PM, said:

Oh I know how crits work, well enough to not bother with LBXs on an Atlas.

I would sincerely love to run into you in any mech I pilot. Sadly I'm quite sure we're not in the same bracket. I'd have to take a pretty sharp nose dive if I was ever going to reach your level.

I guess I'll have to screenshot my shiny new mech statistics page for my DDC later today once I've got 50 games in just so I can tell you to go fly a kite.

[I am]

Royalewithcheese, on 05 March 2013 - 12:04 PM, said:

The plot thickens on "which SRM is best SRM?" - apparently Artemis gives them a new flight path as of this patch!

I tried the srm6 and srm6 plus artemis today post patch. Considering the following I came to the conclusion I prefer them non-artemis, at the cost of 1.2 mill to test across a dozen battles.

-usually either im mostly hitting or missing with the srms6s, and the slight spread actually tends to graze a little when I miss, where the 3srm6+artemis misses entirely. On landed shots, it seems to do about as much damage, a point you had made before that on 6's you noticed little benefit with artemis included. Today those words echoed in my own head, and I agree. Now I did not know that, about the flight path, but still felt the advantage was slight.

I think this is mostly because my build is a, im behind cover, your pretty close, I pop out and im in your face kind of build (tough to utilize on alpine). Most of my shots are 50-0 meters away, and I tend to face hug. It maximizes the srm impact for sure, so I feel the artemis for my play style, and my own experiences, is not for me with 3 x srm6. I can see a similiar "im deadly at 200 meters, and float at 200 meters" version having a totally different opinion however.

Also, those last three pounds, they are like 3 pounds of flesh, so hard to bear losing. Most of my versions tend to be low ammo, or floating on what I call, sub-optimal heat efficiency, so shaving three pounds hurts too much for the benefits it gives me. This is my opinion.

Keep in mind this opinion cuts against the advice of Panda whom I consider to be, well, very very good. I read and re-read his linked post a number of times. I am sad I did not come to his same conclusions he has, and hope this does not mean my thinking and personal experiences will prevent me from reaching his skill level. I would be interested in watching him play his build. My guess is he shorts himself on cooling, because he is good enough to control his fire/heat ratio with trigger discipline. Me, I tend to fire all weapons, so I lean towards more heat displacement.



At sniper and wrench. Please be mutually polite, and dont mind his advice impacting me negatively (though I apprecaite the gesture), its just credits, and I will get more. Thank you both for caring enough to post.

Would be cool to see Sniper in action with his build as well, for me, it always seemed I got alpine when I was trying to test it.

Edited by I am, 05 March 2013 - 09:29 PM.