498 replies to this topic

[SGT Unther]

[Thirdstar]

Lyrik, on 04 March 2013 - 06:42 AM, said:

They are probably now capable to finish the mechs faster etc...

Based on...........what?

[Sir Roland MXIII]

Sifright, on 04 March 2013 - 06:36 AM, said:

I work in a tech company as a hard ware engineer, I can count on 0 hands the number of employees who aren't spending all their working hours working.

I would love to know why people think people who work in tech companies just have oodles of free time during their working hours instead of actually working huge amounts of overtime to meet massively unrealistic deadlines because of a lack of resources because management are trying to save money.

Yea.....

Oh I agree. I'm really not sure where that idea comes from, since over a century ago Ford put a stop to such nonsense with assembly lines.

The mech dev team's likely schedule is easy to graph out, even in this chat window.

........................................................Week 1, 01/13 / Week 2, 01/13 / Week 3, 01/13 / etc

Concept Artist/s...............................Mech I, 01/13 / Mech II, 01/13 / Mech III, 01/13

Modeler/s.........................................Mech iV, 12/12 / Mech I, 01/13 / Mech II, 01/13

Texturer/s and Cockpit Artist/s.........Mech III, 12/12 / Mech IV, 12/12 / Mech I, 01/13

Animator/s........................................Mech II, 12/12 / Mech III, 12/12 / Mech IV, 12/12

This is the way most companies have made products for the last century.... rather amusing to find some who STILL don't grasp it.

Edited by Sir Roland MXIII, 04 March 2013 - 06:51 AM.

[Agent of Change]

Norris J Packard, on 04 March 2013 - 06:35 AM, said:

Agent, I do appreciate your response (really), I don't really have much to say to your post other than that is a fair analyses, that I would like to be wrong, and what you say is a possibility. Maybe PGI's just been lying. Maybe they really do have something going on, it is possible.

That's problem we have in dealing with assumptions, we can be guided by what we do know... and then charge blindly into the forests of "what if" and hope not to run headlong into a tree.

I'm not saying you are wrong, I think you are likely more right than we all want to admit based on what we know. but what we don't know could fill a stadium and that gives us alot of wiggle room to be as optimistic or pessimistic and our individual proclivities allow. The saddest part is that PGI could prove or put to lie anything we have discussed int his thread, but they wont and really can't because we all know that as soon as they say something someone doesn't want to hear or is mistaken the vitriol will come in a flood.

I guess I'm just lamenting we don't know for sure what's going because PGI isn't telling us whats going on inside their offices. PGI can't tell us what's going on without inevitable hostility from the forums over some or all of what they do tell us. because they can't tell us we guess, and yous guess is pretty damn good, depressing as that is.

I wouldn't go so far as to say PGI has been lying, actively obscuring or omitting information perhaps, but i'm not sure that we have been lied to as yet. I see missed deadlines as something that happens and I kinda see PGI as hedgehog curled up spikes out right now, which gives me hope they are protecting something big so it doesn't get burned before a make or break release. They miss deadlines but don't tells us why so as not to spoil the reveal, same tea leaves different divination.

Edited by Agent of Change, 04 March 2013 - 06:54 AM.

[DragonsFire]

Lil Cthulhu, on 04 March 2013 - 06:40 AM, said:

I'm not putting the BF3 beta against the MWO Beta, I'm using the BF3 ALPHA for that.
With the oodles of money they got from all the founders packages, silly hero mechs and grossly overpriced MC if they don't have a competent dev team, they have no one to blame but themselves. I'm sorry but this whole "l0lol0lol0lol0 iz beta" argument that's been floating around since before closed beta ended is more of a crutch being used to defend ones own ego from being bruised due to someone making a real criticism of something that they have some irrational emotional attachment to.

Even using the BF 3 Alpha is not a fair comparison because again, the only common thread that they share is that they both were developed for PC (and even that changed part way through the BF3 development cycle to include PS3 and Xbox ports).

As far as the money goes, there is a post earlier in this thread that dealt with how IGP, the publisher, distributed those funds. Not a lot of it went towards MWO. So they did not have nearly as much as some people seem to think.

[Lyrik]

Lil Cthulhu, on 04 March 2013 - 06:40 AM, said:

With the oodles of money they got from all the founders packages,

You are really blessed with ignorance when dealing with big numbers.

The 5 millions wouldn't last my company for even half a year -.- I'm really impressed that PGI is still working on MW:O. People must buy MC's like crazy xD

[Keratine]

Good thread. Very informative.

I really hope this game doesn't die. Its good to see people talking about the problems (Feedback is always going to be good for any game in beta). I gotta say the title is a bit dramatic but the points are really well put together and explained.

I don't think the game will die anytime soon, I'v seen MMO's have worse runs than this and still turn around and make a decent game. I'm hoping it keeps limping along like this for long enough for it to have an unexpected golden age with new content in the areas the game is lacking. Its a long shot but it could happen.

[Thirdstar]

Lyrik, on 04 March 2013 - 06:48 AM, said:

The 5 millions wouldn't last my company for even half a year

Oh you're also developing an Arena shooter with 47 member development team? Do tell.

[vrok]

So they took money from the founders program to invest in other games, and this is not a **** storm spammed on the forums every day why exactly? If this is true then the founders program was objectively a scam and I can't believe everyone hasn't already demanded refunds. So glad I'm not a founder, I'd feel like I was labeled an *****.

[van Uber]

Lil Cthulhu, on 04 March 2013 - 06:40 AM, said:

I'm not putting the BF3 beta against the MWO Beta, I'm using the BF3 ALPHA for that.
With the oodles of money they got from all the founders packages, silly hero mechs and grossly overpriced MC if they don't have a competent dev team, they have no one to blame but themselves. I'm sorry but this whole "l0lol0lol0lol0 iz beta" argument that's been floating around since before closed beta ended is more of a crutch being used to defend ones own ego from being bruised due to someone making a real criticism of something that they have some irrational emotional attachment to.

Just to point out the money MWO got from founders is dwarfed by the BF3 budget. Founders was $5.2M right? Dice would not comment on the exact sum of total dollar spent, but would concede that budget for the most expensive Swedish movie ever produced ($31M) would not go very far to cover the bills for BF3.

[Zyllos]

Hmm, not sure what to say in regards to this.

I see the argument presented. The facts, being a bit speculative, are set within reason. But along with those same facts, I can speculate a new hypothesis which fits the facts so that leaves me a bit pulled back from agreeing with the OP.

Really, nobody knows for certain. I think part of what he/she says could be true. But as a comsumer, I have to make my own choices on what to spend and what to not spend money on. This bit of information (or speculation) does not change how I feel, currently, about the game.

I have already made my choice on what I am looking for and what I am willing to spend to get it. I suggest everyone else to take a step back and make their own choices, not based on what is said or speculated about.

[Yankee77]

Sifright, on 04 March 2013 - 06:42 AM, said:

So basically you work for a company with more resources than PGI.

Do bare in mind they have 42 employees split over at least two projects.

At least 2-5 of those employees will be ancillary support staff like reception and admin workers.

I understand. And no, I don't, that's about the numbers we have. We just use agile development techniques, as any good dev house does these days.

My point is just that things aren't so clear cut. It takes a month to make a mech, but that doesn't mean all 7 people busy on that mech throughout the whole month. There's bottlenecks, there's concurrent development, there's all kinds of things going on that muddy the picture.

Some of those people might be working on a mech 2 months in advance, others on testing the current mech. Some might be working on 2 mechs, or be done with their part of the work in 3 weeks and spend that extra week on a clan mech. What if modeling is the bottleneck, and the mech team actually consists of 4 modelers instead of 2?

We don't know how those 43 people are distributed, after all.

There's plenty of ways they could be making the monthly IS mechs while slowly building the initial clan mechs behind the scenes (as it were).

Or maybe they ARE planning on 4 months without new mechs, but have additional content scheduled to compensate for it (such as the release of Community Warfare and launching the metagame).

But 4 months of no new content? Not going to happen unless PGI consciously decided to shoot themselves in the foot.

[Thirdstar]

van Uber, on 04 March 2013 - 06:51 AM, said:

Just to point out the money MWO got from founders is dwarfed by the BF3 budget. Founders was $5.2M right? Dice would not comment on the exact sum of total dollar spent, but would concede that budget for the most expensive Swedish movie ever produced ($31M) would not go very far to cover the bills for BF3.

An absolutely humongous part of a AAA budget is now marketing. Even moreso in 2013. Just wanted to point that out, it's not entirely related.

[Lil Cthulhu]

Lyrik, on 04 March 2013 - 06:48 AM, said:

You are really blessed with ignorance when dealing with big numbers.

The 5 millions wouldn't last my company for even half a year -.- I'm really impressed that PGI is still working on MW:O. People must buy MC's like crazy xD

Uh oh, sounds like someone didn't bother to learn how micro-transactions and money actually work.
Pretty sure they raised that five million off founders accounts alone.

[Lyrik]

Thirdstar, on 04 March 2013 - 06:50 AM, said:

Oh you're also developing an Arena shooter with 47 member development team? Do tell.

No, but I know that 5million is not a lot of money ;-) Especially not in dollar :-P

Thirdstar, on 04 March 2013 - 06:44 AM, said:

Based on...........what?

Experience? Improved workflow. Better tools. It is a normal thing that you get better and faster with time and experience ;-)

[Sifright]

Thirdstar, on 04 March 2013 - 06:50 AM, said:

Oh you're also developing an Arena shooter with 47 member development team? Do tell.

it's funny because I work for a company with about 60 employees and we have payroll of about 6 million a year and we deal with actual electronics and factories. not just infinitely reproducible software that has no replication cost.

if pgi got the majority of that 5 million I would expect them to have capital to last them at least 2 years.

I think how ever that is probably more likely a 60/40 split 60 percent to the publisher.

[Norris J Packard]

Zyllos, on 04 March 2013 - 06:53 AM, said:

Hmm, not sure what to say in regards to this.

I see the argument presented. The facts, being a bit speculative, are set within reason. But along with those same facts, I can speculate a new hypothesis which fits the facts so that leaves me a bit pulled back from agreeing with the OP.

Really, nobody knows for certain. I think part of what he/she says could be true. But as a comsumer, I have to make my own choices on what to spend and what to not spend money on. This bit of information (or speculation) does not change how I feel, currently, about the game.

I have already made my choice on what I am looking for and what I am willing to spend to get it. I suggest everyone else to take a step back and make their own choices, not based on what is said or speculated about.

Tell me what you're assumption here is. I'd love to hear.

[Sir Roland MXIII]

vrok, on 04 March 2013 - 06:50 AM, said:

So they took money from the founders program to invest in other games, and this is not a **** storm spammed on the forums every day why exactly? If this is true then the founders program was objectively a scam and I can't believe everyone hasn't already demanded refunds. So glad I'm not a founder, I'd feel like I was labeled an *****.

There was for a time but it subsided once the realization and implications set in, of which this thread is an echo.

In the end we can't say it was a scam, but we would pound anyone to dust who said it wasn't. Unfortunately this is what crowdfunding is at it's worst, and it's here to stay, sadly.

Some did demand refunds, and they were given them.

And yes there are people who currently regret that their usernames will be in the credits of MW:O.

Edited by Sir Roland MXIII, 04 March 2013 - 06:57 AM.

[DragonsFire]

vrok, on 04 March 2013 - 06:50 AM, said:

So they took money from the founders program to invest in other games, and this is not a **** storm spammed on the forums every day why exactly? If this is true then the founders program was objectively a scam and I can't believe everyone hasn't already demanded refunds. So glad I'm not a founder, I'd feel like I was labeled an *****.

I'm not going to forsake the developers (PGI) for the decisions/actions of the publisher (IGP). They received enough startup capital to get MWO funded and then for the sake of their investors, shuffled around the remaining to other projects to increase the return seen for the investors. (Edit: I obviously don't have inside track on this as I'm not an employee at either company, but I would not be surprised if this is how it played out)

It's not great on the face of it, but unfortunately that is business as usual in many arenas, and the gaming industry is no different.

But again, I don't hold those decisions against PGI because I've enjoyed the efforts they have put forth thus far, and I'm going to continue to do what I can to fund those efforts as I see more good things down the road.

I think what Norris posted has a certain merit and was well thought out and written and I'm certainly not discounting it. But I also don't see where in their current development roadmap that they would have a 4 month content drought either.

Edited by DragonsFire, 04 March 2013 - 07:01 AM.

[Bubba Wilkins]

vrok, on 04 March 2013 - 06:50 AM, said:

So they took money from the founders program to invest in other games, and this is not a **** storm spammed on the forums every day why exactly? If this is true then the founders program was objectively a scam and I can't believe everyone hasn't already demanded refunds. So glad I'm not a founder, I'd feel like I was labeled an *****.

They may or may not have. However, since that time, the founders program on MW:Tactics was issued so that if there was any revenue sharing that the tide would flow both ways. There was quite the storm on the boards at the time, but considering the state of things, I'd say we're over it.

That being said, this thread is a parody of the Monty Python - Holy Grail "Bring out your dead." scene.



Given that 108,000 or more players played during last weeks tournament weekend, I'd say the rumors of MW:O's demise are greatly exaggerated.