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The Potential Death Of Mwo


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#1 Norris J Packard

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 02:39 AM

This is a long read, but it encapsulates a massive period of time in MechWarrior Online.

I've been meaning to make this thread for a while. When I initially talked about it some time ago with some other players, I sort of felt like Sol Roth in Soylent Green when him and the rest of the people at the Exchange discuss the Soylent Oceanographic Survey Report. If you haven't seen the film, basically they determined that the plankton populations in the oceans have completely died out and that a complete breakdown of the Earth's food supply is inevitable. It was a solemn discussion.

Of course though, we should start at the beginning.

It all begins in Closed Beta:

Posted Image




During Closed Beta this was a board that PGI had posted showing their timetable for content in the pipe. They'd later on going to regret that when the Raven was delayed considerably, and most of the features that were supposed to accompany it were also late, and didn't function in any way that made them useful. I am talking about NARC, TAG, and the complete lack of ECM. Anyway. This board is pretty important because at the time, PGI had mentioned how they'd like to introduce two Mechs per month. As you can see, they were planning on releasing the Cicada and the Raven in September. Now that didn't happen. Why? Who knows, it was never really explained.

Then around the same time, but before the Raven was delayed, this article was posted:

The incredibly Detailed, beautifully illustrated, insanely intricate birth of a Mech

(Penny Arcade)




It is a pretty great article. It details the overall process and workflow of the Mech and shows off everything PGI does to bring us Mechs. I love this article, and got me pretty excited for the future of MWO. I mean, if PGI could bring us two Mechs per month of such high quality, what couldn't they do!? Anyway. So then the Raven got delayed, and this caused people a great deal of concern. The Clans were supposed to be coming in March after all, time was of the essence! Over all though, there wasn't much worry. That was of course, until PGI switched back to a one Mech per month schedule and stayed there. This became abundantly obvious once the Cicada was released in October and the Cataphract was released in November. Little could we know though, that things were about to get much worse.

[Openly this doesn't seem like a big deal, but to the people who really pay attention to this game, it should. I know a lot of you have put it in the back of your minds to try and not think about it, but now is the time to think about it. In fact, we should have probably been thinking about it in Closed Beta.]

MechWarrior Online's unconventional crowdfunding pays off

(Gamasutra)




I am going to cut out the relevant section for you;

Quote

The money IGP has picked up from the Founder's Program preorders will go toward Piranha's efforts developing MechWarrior Online and supporting it post-launch. The independent publisher has two other free-to-play titles it intends to launch open betas for later this year: MechWarrior Tactics and Sins of a Dark Age.

"The success of the Founder's Program reinforces IGP's vision to help independent developers build exceptional games with the right economic model for the global marketplace," says IGP CEO Nick Foster.


This caused something of a row on the forums, a lot of people wanted to know why the money that was supposed to be going (or assumed to be doing) towards MWO was actually going towards to other games. Finally the Devs commented (paraphrasing), "The Publisher-Developer relationship is complicated." Thread link. One of main reasons for this was that PGI had roughly a dozen positions open at the time, but none of them had been filled. And if IGP was taking the money and spending it on other games, where was PGI going to get the cash to fill these seats? Well, as we now know (if you listen to the NGNG podcast) they haven't hired anyone since at least August.

During the Closed Beta shenanigans that were going on, there was a particular series of patches that caused a lot of gameplay issues. Initially PGI had intended to begin the Open Beta in the middle of October, but that didn't occur due to these patches introducing some large, game breaking bugs. Russ stated that until they were confident they could produce a stable enough game, that they wouldn't open the game. There was also the issue of Founder's Premium Time starting at the beginning of Open Beta, this was also eventually rectified. Then at the end of October, PGI did their final reset and started Open Beta. Now the concern here was that PGI wouldn't go back to the two Mech per month schedule as they had originally intended. Additionally though there was another problem. Prior to Open Beta, PGI had run the PC Gamer article. It had been widely speculated that the Assault Mech that we would be getting would be the last (announced) Inner Sphere Mech for a while.

And a few weeks before the release of the PC Gamer article, someone had leaked a scan of one of the pages. Showing off the Highlander.

Posted Image




However a few days after this picture was leaked, PGI announced the Flea without warning. Suddenly the idea of this being the final Inner Sphere Mech was tossed aside. Now there was going to need to be an entirely new rotation added. Let me explain why this is a problem, initially the timetable was supposed to look like this:

September: Raven / Cicada
October: Cataphract / Stalker
November: Spider / Trebuchet
December: JagerMech / Highlander

Then the following would occur:

January: Clan Light / Clan Medium
February: Clan Heavy / Clan Assault

Which meant that PGI would have been able to easily meet the assumed March deadline for the invasion given the timeline. We now know that PGI has no intentions on doing this, they have stated that the final design for how OmniMechs will function (not when the Mechs will be in the game) should be around April or May. Let me state right now in big, bold letter that the Clan Mechs being delayed is not necessarily a problem. The problem lies in the following:

The Current Timetable:

March: JagerMech
April: Highlander
May: Flea
June: BlackJack
July: Orion
August: <Unannounced Assault Mech>
September: Clan Light Development
October: Clan Medium Development
November: Clan Heavy Development
December: Clan Assault Development

Because PGI seems either unable, or unwilling, to get back to a two Mechs per month timetable, it will inevitably be the end of the year or the beginning of next year before there is even a chance of Clan Mechs being added. This is of course assuming absolutely zero delays. Now the problem with this is that unlike the previous timetable, it takes place over a four month period. Which means, because this is supposed to emulate Closed Beta they must release the first four Clan Mechs at the same time. Otherwise there won't be enough Mechs to fit the individual weight classes, thus you probably won't be able to drop with them properly if we assume that the Clan Faction is added at the same time.This is a huge problem. Imagine playing MWO for four Months, with zero content real being added (except for four Hero Mechs) because PGI does not predict that they will have Community Warfare out until several months after Open Beta is done, which should be around the Summer Time.

This means that in all likelihood, Community Warfare will not be added until the end of the year either. Now this might not seem like a big deal to you, but back in Closed Beta, the delay of the Raven being nearly one month caused a lot of players to stop playing. At the end of the day, the primary content of MWO is the Mechs. Not the paint, not the camo, not the stupid lights in our cockpits. It is the primary content and primary attraction of MechWarrior Online. Without Mechs, there is no game. If PGI stops putting out any new Mechs for four Months, I wholly expect that there will be a repeat of the Raven debacle but on a scale that is many times worse. And since they don't appear to have any plans to circumvent this, I must assume that MechWarrior is basically doomed to being a dead game by the end of the year. Despite what some people with Founders next to their names say, a few hundred people playing does not equate a game with a healthy playerbase. Finally, I'd absolutely love to be wrong. I'd love to play with the Clan Mechs, I'd love for there to be no content drought, but I honestly don't think I will be wrong.

Edited by miSs, 04 March 2013 - 08:02 AM.
Thread was not erased, it was archived in the Beta Forums. Thanks..


#2 Gregory Owen

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 02:51 AM

all i hear in this long winded post is a bunch of crying because clan mechs aren't here NOW. the game is still in beta, they can do whatever the **** they like.

there is no MARCH DEADLINE, full invasion doesn't happen until august, only a couple small forces attacked in march.
quit parroting information you've read somewhere else and not in the books.

that picture of the whiteboard is over a year old, processes change, resources(people) get moved around to reprioritize things like netcode still being fixed. they stated not long ago they will be going to a 2 mech a month format once the game goes gold.

BOTTOM LINE: the game is fine, it's these stupid sensationalist thread titles trying to get people worked up that needs to die.
they have enough money right now they don't have anything to worry about, this isn't some halfbaked mmo, they stated they had over 100,000 people play the weekend of the tourney.

Edited by Gregory Owen, 04 March 2013 - 02:52 AM.


#3 Inertiaman

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 02:55 AM

View PostGregory Owen, on 04 March 2013 - 02:51 AM, said:

all i hear in this long winded post is a bunch of crying because clan mechs aren't here NOW. the game is still in beta, they can do whatever the **** they like.


Well then you need to read the ****** far more carefully. Prat.

#4 Norris J Packard

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 02:56 AM

View PostGregory Owen, on 04 March 2013 - 02:51 AM, said:

all i hear in this long winded post is a bunch of crying because clan mechs aren't here NOW. the game is still in beta, they can do whatever the **** they like.

there is no MARCH DEADLINE, full invasion doesn't happen until august, only a couple small forces attacked in march.
quit parroting information you've read somewhere else and not in the books.

that picture of the whiteboard is over a year old, processes change, resources(people) get moved around to reprioritize things like netcode still being fixed. they stated not long ago they will be going to a 2 mech a month format once the game goes gold.

BOTTOM LINE: the game is fine, it's these stupid sensationalist thread titles trying to get people worked up that needs to die.
they have enough money right now they don't have anything to worry about, this isn't some halfbaked mmo, they stated they had over 100,000 people play the weekend of the tourney.


The game being fine now does not mean it will be fine in the wake of a four month content drought.

Please, read the post, I encourage you to educated yourself on the reality of what is actually occurring here.

Right now your words read to me like a man who is denying Climate Change. It is inevitable.

#5 Zeus X

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 03:00 AM

View PostNorris J Packard, on 04 March 2013 - 02:39 AM, said:





Hmmmm, do you have solid evidence of this claim?

#6 Norris J Packard

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 03:01 AM

View PostDCM Zeus, on 04 March 2013 - 03:00 AM, said:



Hmmmm, do you have solid evidence of this claim?


The claim with nothing in it?

#7 Ashnod

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 03:03 AM

They might have kept their 2 mech a month policy.. but have just been making clan mech's in secret without revealing them.. maybe?.. and the issue their having is developing how the omni system works even while having the chassis, complete.

just a theory

View PostGregory Owen, on 04 March 2013 - 02:51 AM, said:

there is no MARCH DEADLINE, full invasion doesn't happen until august, only a couple small forces attacked in march.
quit parroting information you've read somewhere else and not in the books.



Periphery Action
(August-September 3049)
Blackstone
Butte Hold
Crellacor
Drask's Den
Ferris
Gustrell
Oberon VI
Paulus Prime
Placida
The Rock
Sigurd
Botany Bay
Erewhon
Gotterdammerung
Lackhove
Last Chance
Von Strang's World
Elissa
Manaringaine
Nyserta
Porthos
Santander's World

Wave 1
(March-April 3050)
Alleghe
Balsta
Chateau
Icar
New Caledonia
Outpost
St. John
Skallevoll
Svelvik
The Edge
Anywhere
Barcelona
Bensinger
Bone-Norman
Here
Persistence
Steelton
Toland
Trell I
Winfield
Constance
Damian
Holmsbu
Pinnacle
Thule
Almunge
Bjarred
Idlewind
Richmond
Rockland
Schwartz
Stapelfeld
Tarnby
Turtle Bay
Virentofta

first dashed line at the top is periphery action(august), second is wave 1(march-april) into the inner sphere core worlds
Posted Image

a little more than "small" forces I would say quiaff?

Edited by Ashnod, 04 March 2013 - 03:08 AM.


#8 DEN_Ninja

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 03:03 AM

Mr. Packard,

I see that you actually put together a good argument for what you believe. My issue lies with the fact that you say it stubbornly in a way that puts off an aura of "I am right, there is no other choice" While your evidence is wide with the citations of other articles we have no way to conclude that these delays will continue.

PGI gives us an agenda of loose dates in which to expect something. They release content as they see fit as it is their game. You say that Mechs are the heart of this game, but the soul is Community Warfare. For all we know a lot of resources could be devoted to making CW at this very moment. Maybe they have a backlog of Mechs already premade and models but are testing them or finding bugs that they find would be stupid to release.

I have no way to back what I am saying now either. MWO either will bust or it will prosper.

Your Sensationalized title and demeanor will put off the the wrong message. You do more harm than good by doing this.

#9 deadeye mcduck

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 03:05 AM

As Paul said on Mechs, Devs and Beers 8, "Have paitence", we will get all the content were asking for. Todays gamers are far too impatient, and want everything right now. The devs have been far more open about what content is up coming than any other developer.

#10 Budor

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 03:05 AM

We will get a cicada hero tomorrow. ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED?!

Posted Image

Edited by Budor, 04 March 2013 - 03:10 AM.


#11 GriefHard

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 03:05 AM

WE ARE BETA TESTERS. We do not have the final product, yet.
I don't know what is going on with the Developers and nobody does, unless they work at that company. I believe, though, that there are some more things in the development line, that are not passed out to the gamers. There were a couple of images much prior to Forest Colony Snow and images prior to Alpine Peaks.

So - I'd just say we keep calm, enjoy the BT and MW Universe and support the development of this, truely great, game!

#12 627

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 03:06 AM

Well written with the back info, but what is your point? There won't be content for 4 month? Doubtful.

Ther will be other content, new maps, new features, new toys to kill each other, CW will hopefully be ready at that time...

#13 DEN_Ninja

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 03:06 AM

^ It took ten years to get Starcraft Brood War to achieve perfect balance.

Blizzard pushed back the release date for HotS numerous times. The beta itself was a bust. Many of the expansion units taken out. Now they release it and they have new UI, new physics engines, overall new content.

Took months of testing to get it to where it is now and people are still rioting on the Blizz forums.

Edited by Tichorius Davion, 04 March 2013 - 03:08 AM.


#14 Protection

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 03:06 AM

Posted Image



Posted Image

#15 Inertiaman

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 03:07 AM

View Postdeadeye mcduck, on 04 March 2013 - 03:05 AM, said:

As Paul said on Mechs, Devs and Beers 8, "Have paitence", we will get all the content were asking for. Todays gamers are far too impatient, and want everything right now. The devs have been far more open about what content is up coming than any other developer.


They've been saying that on key features since they published an entirely fictional roadmap last September. No we're not, no we don't. No they aren't.

In that order.

#16 deadeye mcduck

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 03:07 AM

Listen to the NGNG podacsts, they give out alot of info about upcoming content straight frim the developers.

#17 Norris J Packard

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 03:07 AM

View PostTichorius Davion, on 04 March 2013 - 03:03 AM, said:

Mr. Packard,

I see that you actually put together a good argument for what you believe. My issue lies with the fact that you say it stubbornly in a way that puts off an aura of "I am right, there is no other choice" While your evidence is wide with the citations of other articles we have no way to conclude that these delays will continue.

PGI gives us an agenda of loose dates in which to expect something. They release content as they see fit as it is their game. You say that Mechs are the heart of this game, but the soul is Community Warfare. For all we know a lot of resources could be devoted to making CW at this very moment. Maybe they have a backlog of Mechs already premade and models but are testing them or finding bugs that they find would be stupid to release.

I have no way to back what I am saying now either. MWO either will bust or it will prosper.

Your Sensationalized title and demeanor will put off the the wrong message. You do more harm than good by doing this.


I don't care, I really don't.

As for your assumptions, regarding Mechs, this is in all likelihood wrong.

I have determined this due the fact that both the Stalker and the Spider had to have their initial screenshots reposted within a few days to show off more complete models. If they are really working this close to the wire in order to deliver just a single Mech on time, I do not believe they can deliver two Mechs at once.

As for Community Warfare, as I have pointed out, it will likely not be around until the end of the year either given PGI's estimates. So in reality here, there's no argument.

#18 Moromillas

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 03:08 AM

"Actually, from my last reading... it's around August, when 'Clan Invasion' (he means Op. Revival) actually starts hammering hard on the Inner Sphere, we might scale our timeline around that. Basically, don't expect the 'Clan Invasion' in April."

http://nogutsnogalax...s-aka-rayzilla/

He also goes on to say that they're on track apparently.

#19 deadeye mcduck

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 03:09 AM

View PostInertiaman, on 04 March 2013 - 03:07 AM, said:


They've been saying that on key features since they published an entirely fictional roadmap last September. No we're not, no we don't. No they aren't.

In that order.

So the new monthly content updates are not enough for you?

Edited by deadeye mcduck, 04 March 2013 - 03:09 AM.


#20 Zeus X

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 03:10 AM

View PostAshnod, on 04 March 2013 - 03:03 AM, said:

They might have kept their 2 mech a month policy.. but have just been making clan mech's in secret without revealing them.. maybe?.. and the issue their having is developing how the omni system works even while having the chassis, complete.

just a theory




Periphery Action
(August-September 3049)
Blackstone
Butte Hold
Crellacor
Drask's Den
Ferris
Gustrell
Oberon VI
Paulus Prime
Placida
The Rock
Sigurd
Botany Bay
Erewhon
Gotterdammerung
Lackhove
Last Chance
Von Strang's World
Elissa
Manaringaine
Nyserta
Porthos
Santander's World

Wave 1
(March-April 3050)
Alleghe
Balsta
Chateau
Icar
New Caledonia
Outpost
St. John
Skallevoll
Svelvik
The Edge
Anywhere
Barcelona
Bensinger
Bone-Norman
Here
Persistence
Steelton
Toland
Trell I
Winfield
Constance
Damian
Holmsbu
Pinnacle
Thule
Almunge
Bjarred
Idlewind
Richmond
Rockland
Schwartz
Stapelfeld
Tarnby
Turtle Bay
Virentofta

first dashed line at the top is periphery action(august), second is wave 1(march-april) into the inner sphere core worlds
Posted Image

a little more than "small" forces I would say quiaff?


QFT!





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