72 replies to this topic

[Garfuncle]

Medium mechs are in a precarious position atm. They lack the speed of lights, the armor and weapons of heavies, and have overly large profiles that make them easy to hit. This compounds the problem that we simply have an extremely odd-ball selection of mechs that all manage to skirt being true medium mechs.

The Cicada is of course, an over-sized Jenner. It is bizarre why it is the trial medium mech and the far more balanced Hunchback isn't. The Cent and Treb, while overall good mechs, are still very tall medium mechs. While not as bulky as heavies they certainly share the same height, with the Cent just coming up with the Atlas's chin...one wonders if this problem is going to get even worse with the future release of the Orion and Hunchback where these humanoid mechs will share the same size of these far lesser armed and armored humanoid mediums. This leaves the Hunchback, that for the time being is probably the most balanced medium mech that fits in its own weight class nicely.

Another big problem is speed. Despite being mediums and despite having a smaller weapons loadout and armor rating, both the Cent, Hunchback, and even the future Blackjack all share the same miserable speed of 64kph. For mediums, this speed is utterly awful. If the class is supposed to be in-between lights and heavies then why do they share the same speed as heavies only without the weapon/armor advantage? PGI seemed to have learned their lesson with the Treb, that goes a much more respectable 86kph and I hope the Blackjack can go at least 70kph stock. Because currently to make mediums be more viable players almost always swap out the engines on these slower mediums so that they get into that 70-80kph area that should be standard for mechs of this size.

So I'm hoping that future medium mech releases will have shorter, faster mechs that better fit the medium classification. The ones we have now are alright, but they mostly skirt on the edges of medium-light and medium-heavy.

[Zyllos]

Because they wield a weapon loadout compariable to light Heavys when they can take a smaller engine to move slowly.

Mediums will become much better once weight limits and more weapon balances are introduced.

With a 400t limit, do you take 8 50t Medium mechs or 2 Atlas, 4 Ravens, and 2 Commandos?

While I think most "conventional" thinking groups would go with the later option, some groups will begin to take the former option in an attempt to out manuver the high fire power of the 2 Atlas' and take out the Lights.

[TheRulesLawyer]

They need more 5/8 mediums. That was always the bread and butter of the medium class for me. None of these 4/6 slowpokes.

[lsp]

4SP.

[Roughneck45]

Any kind of weight/battlevalue/any balancing mechanic to the size of teams will be the biggest buff mediums can get.

[Corpsecandle]

I'm really hoping that chassis quirks are going to help out mediums as well. If they can give the sense of a more agile mech, I think more people will be inclined to pick them up.

[Vulkan]

The Hunchbacks are great as is, and the centurions and cicada's aren't bad either.

That said, I want a 55-ton medium already!

[Ranek Blackstone]

Roughneck45, on 01 March 2013 - 02:36 PM, said:

Any kind of weight/battlevalue/any balancing mechanic to the size of teams will be the biggest buff mediums can get.

BV doesn't work because it assumes all die rolls are equal, and player skill is the key to a win here. A jenner can kill an Atlas with ease despite having a BV only a little over 1/3 that of the Atlas.

Weight doesn't help either except give the match maker MORE hoops to jump through, which leads to longer wait times and more fail to finds

That being said, I have been seeing more medium mechs when I pug these days, and they do pretty good. Not enough to take on my Cataphract, but good enough I have to work at it a bit.

[Kraven Kor]

We need more choices for sure.

I know, I know, "unseen" but we need the Wolverine (faster direct-fire with jump jets), we need the Bushwacker, we need the Griffon, the Shadow Hawk, the Clint, Panther...

[Kurshuk]

TheRulesLawyer, on 01 March 2013 - 02:32 PM, said:

They need more 5/8 mediums. That was always the bread and butter of the medium class for me. None of these 4/6 slowpokes.

I don't understand 5/8, 4/6?

Kurshuk

[Kraven Kor]

Hell I'll take a Whitworth at this point

[Voidsinger]

The problem with Mediums is at its greatest during this time period. Why?

Mediums were the workhorse class. They were also the weight class most reliant on the Unseens. The Unseens made up the bulk of the 5/8s and 6/9s. Since nobody knows what the Settlement with Harmony Gold entails, they aren't available for MWO.

Now there are some fine replacements among the Star League mechs: Crab, Kintaro, Sentinel. Their issue, which is an MWO issue is the need for 3 canon variants in 3050. They lack these variants (as do the Enforcer (5/8/5) and the Dervish (5/8/5)).

Which leaves us with as unannounced and unimplemented in the medium range (excluding the Scorpion): Assassin, Clint, Vulcan, Vindicator, Whitworth.

All are 40-45s

Vindicator and Whitworth are 4/6/4 45s

Clint and Vulcan are 6/9/6 40s.

Assassin is a 7/11/7 40 with a low payload and hardpoints (and very minor variants)


This time period is hard for mediums, primarily because the Unseen were their backbone.

[Kraven Kor]

Kurshuk, on 01 March 2013 - 02:45 PM, said:

I don't understand 5/8, 4/6?

Kurshuk

Speed breakdowns from Tabletop. 64kph is 4/6 (4 hexes on board walking, 6 hexes running, basically.) 48kph = 3/5, and I think 80kph is 5/8, yes?

[Ranek Blackstone]

Kurshuk, on 01 March 2013 - 02:45 PM, said:

I don't understand 5/8, 4/6?

Kurshuk

Table top speeds in hexes a mech can walk/run per turn I'm pretty sure.

[Fred013]

We have 3 50t and 1 40t. Little biased, when lights, heavies and assaults are a little more spread.

[Voidsinger]

Kurshuk, on 01 March 2013 - 02:45 PM, said:

I don't understand 5/8, 4/6?

Kurshuk

This refers to tabletop Battletech movement. It's a quick speed guide, because engine divisors had to be equal for walking speed.

a 4/6 is walks at just over 40kph, runs at just over 60kph.

a 5/8 walks at just over 50 and runs at just over 80.

You may also see a third number, which is jump jets. So, a 6/9/6 would walk at just over 60 kph, run at just over 90kph and have 6 jumpjet units.

Walking and running have heat and other movement implications in Battletech.

[Nathan Foxbane]

I do not think they will give you much faster until you are willing to settle for an Assassin. And really who is that desperate?

[Cferre]

Medium mechs except the Cicada need a 20-25% reduction in SIZE. Their silhouet is way to big compared with the rest.

[M4NTiC0R3X]

I agree, I despise medium 'mechs and always have 'cos it can be tricky to create one that is more than a one trick pony

wanna go fast? sure, gimp all other aspects
wanna get kills? sure, gimp speed and armor
wanna healthy mix? sure, but since I'm slower, have less armor and can only utilize so many weapon configurations I'm kind of a one trick pony.

The point is that a light can go so fast that even smaller weapons can be used to great effect. A heavy or assault can bring a whole heck of a lot more firepower and armor for about the same run speed in most cases.

(sure, some people get them... but I sure as heck don't)

Edited by M4NTiC0R3X, 01 March 2013 - 03:02 PM.

[Kobold]

TheRulesLawyer, on 01 March 2013 - 02:32 PM, said:

They need more 5/8 mediums. That was always the bread and butter of the medium class for me. None of these 4/6 slowpokes.

I've been saying this since last summer. Unfortunately many of the mainstays in that category are Unseen (Griffin, Phoenix Hawk, Shadowhawk, Wolverine). Then of course due to their wanting mechs with many variants, some other options like the Crab, Chameleon, etc, are off the table.

As the newer tech mechs become available post-3050, we should get more options, moving away from the Unseen into the era when FASA was making new designs.