106 replies to this topic

[warner2]

3rdworld, on 05 March 2013 - 02:29 PM, said:

depends what you are looking for. It will always be the same 5-10 mechs that are the current meta winners.

But when we have done some Marik drops (weight limits) I see much more diversity in the mechs fielded. (do i take 2 atlases and a cent or an atlas and 2 poptarts?) not a perfect example but you get the idea.

Right, it will always be the best chassis that are used and that's expected. However the possible combinations would provide another layer of interest. A 400 ton drop for eight players? You might go 8 Centurions, or you might choose 2 Atlas, 2 Raven and... then some other stuff. I don't want to do the maths but that's the point, a tonnage limit gives you an interesting problem figuring out a good combination of 8 chassis to fit in any particular tonnage limit. Plus, the matches themselves are potentially more interesting (who will win, the Centurions, or the Atlas/Raven/Other stuff build?).

In all likely-hood, it would also force into play one or two of the less used chassis, too.

Coming from NBT, I'm most used to a total tonnage, although I do remember playing weight class restricted play in MWL. NBT was always tonnage based as I recall, and you could even drop in under-manned if you wanted, although the conventional wisdom was to take as many players as you could up to the full 8.

Nice video too.

[Protection]

For anyone interested, I replicated most of the RHoD builds often seen and put them up a week or so ago:

http://mwomercs.com/...e-mech-designs/

As I mention, it doesn't include every last build (if you watched our videos, you'll have noticed Armitage running our experimental 3LLas, 3MLas "Diamondback" 4P - a support medium design that didn't quite make the cut in the long run), but it covers most of the basics that you will regularly see.

[M4NTiC0R3X]

Them Centurions... I still like them better than the bucket, thanks for reminding me why.

[M3atloaf]

Skinny Pete, on 04 March 2013 - 09:04 PM, said:

Thanks to Glory for editing and uploading. Thanks to DRAAGUN for the match also. Well played guys. *Kudos*

Good video.

ciller, on 04 March 2013 - 09:05 PM, said:

You know what I hate? Steel Jaguars being the only team we consistently lose to. Good job guys, you all rock.

Thanks for the laughs. You get rolled by Kaos, Paragon, Blazing Aces, and us all the time too.

[Little Nemo]

M3atloaf, on 05 March 2013 - 03:18 PM, said:

Good video.



Thanks for the laughs. You get rolled by Kaos, Paragon, Blazing Aces, and us all the time too.

Let's keep it civil.

[Glory in the Highest]

Agreed. This thread isn't about e-peen, it's about promoting the competitive community we are all trying to build.

[Protection]

Glory, on 05 March 2013 - 04:04 PM, said:

Agreed. This thread isn't about e-peen, it's about promoting the competitive community we are all trying to build.

And PGI is trying to destroy...

[hashinshin]

follow up question and then few more

Do you think then that the 500 ton drops favors different comps if you will? Do people ever pull out an Awesome or Stalker in 500 ton drops that they wouldn't do in 1-2-3-2 drops?

Do you think the SRM needs nerfs or is it j ust the maps being too small?

Following the above, is alpine/desert better for competitive play, or will it hurt it?

Will 12v12 hamper the competitive efforts? (Need 50% more players)

[Artgathan]

Lefty Lucy, on 04 March 2013 - 09:14 PM, said:

That couldn't have been 8 v 8, all the mechs weren't DDCs and 3Ls. /s

Seriously though, people really underestimate the variety you can find in 8 mans. Nice vid.

I don't see variety in this drop. I see one team with 5 chassis (out of a mandatory 4 since they have to use 1 mech from every weight class) and the other with 4. I'll take a stab and say that all the pilots are using team-determined loadouts as well (IE: every one of those centurions carries 3 SRM6 and 2 ML). That doesn't really seem like variety, considering you could have 16 unique mechs (instead of the 5 variants we see in the video).

That said, a good vid. Nice response to the tunnel rush!

[Protection]

hashinshin, on 05 March 2013 - 04:21 PM, said:

Do you think then that the 500 ton drops favors different comps if you will? Do people ever pull out an Awesome or Stalker in 500 ton drops that they wouldn't do in 1-2-3-2 drops?

I can't speak for everyone, but for this question I will go through mechs you might see in tonnage based drops:

Commando -- possibly the 2D, especially for teams that don't place a high value on light mechs. Other variants unlikely.
Spider -- Hahaha, no, never.
Cicada -- Maybe, mediums are one of the easier places to scrape for tonnage.
Dragon -- very unlikely. Catapults are only 5 tons heavier, but much better in almost all respects. (except speed)
Awesome -- very unlikely. Stalkers are only 5 tons heavier and much better in almost all respects. (except speed)
Stalker -- Very likely. Stalkers are almost as good at Atlai, and a whopping 15 tons cheaper.

[Little Nemo]

hashinshin, on 05 March 2013 - 04:21 PM, said:

follow up question and then few more

Do you think then that the 500 ton drops favors different comps if you will? Do people ever pull out an Awesome or Stalker in 500 ton drops that they wouldn't do in 1-2-3-2 drops?

Do you think the SRM needs nerfs or is it j ust the maps being too small?

Following the above, is alpine/desert better for competitive play, or will it hurt it?

Will 12v12 hamper the competitive efforts? (Need 50% more players)

TheMagician would be better suited to answer these, but I sure will try haha.

We see Stalkers and Awesomes a fair bit when we are practicing. If we dropped straight tonnage based, I think it would be very diverse. I didn't play PvP in MW4, so I couln't tell you what it was really like.

I personally think SRMs are fine. People with more expierence with past PvP might have different opinions.

So far, we have adapted well to Alpine and it makes for some very interesting drops. I personally think it's my favorite map right now.

I'm excited for 12v12 and think it's going to be a blast to play. Hopefully teams can field 12 pilots. I think if we all want to do it, it shouldn't be a problem.

I guess I'm an optimist.

[PanzerMonkey]

This game NEEDS a spectator mode. Imagine watching these battles from a free flying perspective, looking down on the action, it would be amazing.

Glory, on 05 March 2013 - 04:04 PM, said:

Agreed. This thread isn't about e-peen, it's about promoting the competitive community we are all trying to build.

This is the Internet; every thread is about e-peen.

[Little Nemo]

PanzerMonkey, on 05 March 2013 - 06:17 PM, said:

This game NEEDS a spectator mode. Imagine watching these battles from a free flying perspective, looking down on the action, it would be amazing.


This is the Internet; every thread is about e-peen.

Hopefully that will come when the let us do our own private matches. I think I want that more than anything right now. (Besides the Highlander.)

[Protection]

PanzerMonkey, on 05 March 2013 - 06:17 PM, said:

This game NEEDS a spectator mode. Imagine watching these battles from a free flying perspective, looking down on the action, it would be amazing.

It'd be a good game for casting as well. Talk about different builds and build strategies. Team compositions, positions, roles, key players. . .

[Little Nemo]

Protection, on 05 March 2013 - 08:34 PM, said:

It'd be a good game for casting as well. Talk about different builds and build strategies. Team compositions, positions, roles, key players. . .

It would be cool if we had an official section of the MWO site where you could click on a team and see members, matches etc. Maybe ordered by ranking etc.

[ciller]

M3atloaf, on 05 March 2013 - 03:18 PM, said:

Thanks for the laughs. You get rolled by Kaos, Paragon, Blazing Aces, and us all the time too.

Is that so? If this were true you'd be nothing more then a childish jerk waving his e-peen inappropriately and unnecessarily. If this were false you'd be nothing more then a lying braggart. You pick which, doesn't matter to me.

Further, Templar 8-mans do just fine. We run so many different ones from random pugish 8man drops to established 8-mans filled with aces that practically never lose. You saying that you "roll" us could mean nothing or actually be an accomplishment (depending on the team). Either way, your unnecessary and unwarranted heckling should be taken elsewhere before you stick your foot in your mouth. Thanks!

_________

Getting back to the topic at hand, I am hoping that along with individual leader boards they will have implemented stat tracking for teams. They were talking about more tournaments this month (and presumably the months after), perhaps a team based tournament will be part of them. If so I hope to be a part of it and make a good showing (and pray that none of them are anything like the last ironman tournament).

Also a free-roaming 3rd party viewing mode would be nice so that people who are interested in the battle can watch from outside of it with a separate chat room. Make it so you can enter any game already in progress that is not set to private. Would be so nice.

[3rdworld]

hashinshin, on 05 March 2013 - 04:21 PM, said:

follow up question and then few more

Do you think then that the 500 ton drops favors different comps if you will? Do people ever pull out an Awesome or Stalker in 500 ton drops that they wouldn't do in 1-2-3-2 drops?

A stalker sure, they can easily out gun an atlas. An awesome? unlikely. they are just 5 tons cheaper than a stalker and a poptart is probably the more versatile and deadly mech. A dragon isn't completely out of the question but could probably be better used somewhere else.

Tonnage isn't perfect, it is just newer. People haven't figured out the ideal drops yet. Also Marik uses conquest mode which I actually enjoy quite a bit. It adds another depth to strategy. If a team goes slow and powerful it is not out of the question for the faster team to move better and out cap them, or split them up and destroy them. your drops have to be able to handle many more situations than the 2-2-2-2 assault format. And setting back and waiting will only cost you the match. Conquest kind of forces action..

hashinshin, on 05 March 2013 - 04:21 PM, said:

Do you think the SRM needs nerfs or is it j ust the maps being too small?

I don't think so.

hashinshin, on 05 March 2013 - 04:21 PM, said:

Following the above, is alpine/desert better for competitive play, or will it hurt it?

I think it is still a bit early to tell. I can tell you it has shifted the meta towards PPCs more for the range.

hashinshin, on 05 March 2013 - 04:21 PM, said:

Will 12v12 hamper the competitive efforts? (Need 50% more players)

Getting more people is always more difficult. Most teams shouldn't have an issue grabbing 4 more. But who knows? it is going to be a big change.


Just my opinions.

[Little Nemo]

Can't we all just get along?

[Ngamok]

Like someone posted already, it's just a giant brawl and everyone is running SRMs. Also, I like how it comes down to a small section of the map and the pilot of the video pretty much runs into every mech friend and foe.

BUT, the 2,2,2,2 drops are the best because it makes it a bigger diversity in the fights rather than all DDCs and 3Ls and A1s.

[Glory in the Highest]

Ngamok, on 06 March 2013 - 01:45 PM, said:

Like someone posted already, it's just a giant brawl and everyone is running SRMs. Also, I like how it comes down to a small section of the map and the pilot of the video pretty much runs into every mech friend and foe.

BUT, the 2,2,2,2 drops are the best because it makes it a bigger diversity in the fights rather than all DDCs and 3Ls and A1s.

Now, while there are plenty of holes to poke into every video everyone ever posts, as other people in the thread have stated - this is one match, of one dropdec (1-2-3-2) on one map. 1-2-3-2 lends itself to brawling, so you'll generally see that with that dec. And, when there's a cave push, this is generally what happens.

As for the collision - deliberate. Once I lost my SRMs, it was all about effin' it up for the enemy. Collision is next to meaningless without knockdowns, so no reason to not try to block shots since I could do very little else. If nothing else, it gives you a good view of the rest of the fight.

Edited by Glory, 06 March 2013 - 02:13 PM.