82 replies to this topic

[El Penguin]

[Aym]

Jade Kitsune, on 05 March 2013 - 04:27 AM, said:

C-bill Advantage Strategy with coolant flush model:

based apon the 10 heatsink model, I push my heat into the treshold of the upper 80% of heat effencency... I'm fighting it out and I have both level 1 and level 2 coolant flush installed as modules, I hit my "override" button and alpha, pushing me into say the 110% heat threshhold that my 10 heatsinks can handle.

I flush my tier 1 coolant flush, which puts me back at 95% heat. I then override and alpha AGAIN, this pushes me to 120% heat threshold, I flush my tier 2, sinking me to 100% threshold. which is already dropping do to overriding, I override a THRID TIME and Alpha, then let sink as normal while running away.

That's 3 free alphastrikes Where as I can only get 2 in with the MC only coolant flush.

Math can be tricky sometimes but I'll try to spell this out. Your first "Alpha" generated 30% of your heat capacity. Your second "Alpha" generated 25% of your heat capacity. This makes your story difficult to use as evidence of any great number crunching. However using either number system your example is not a definite advantage for the C-bill modules, a better example would be where the 1 extra alpha nets you a kill and then it's ok to be shut down to cool off, then you use the second module for a second extra alpha some other time. THAT is the only potential advantage of the C-bill system. If you're using them w/in the same 5 second period you might as well have the MC module 100% of the time.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Aym, on 05 March 2013 - 04:58 AM, said:

Math can be tricky sometimes but I'll try to spell this out. Your first "Alpha" generated 30% of your heat capacity. Your second "Alpha" generated 25% of your heat capacity. This makes your story difficult to use as evidence of any great number crunching. However using either number system your example is not a definite advantage for the C-bill modules, a better example would be where the 1 extra alpha nets you a kill and then it's ok to be shut down to cool off, then you use the second module for a second extra alpha some other time. THAT is the only potential advantage of the C-bill system. If you're using them w/in the same 5 second period you might as well have the MC module 100% of the time.

Ohh, I'm 5% off... oh lordy what am I gonna do.

You'll still be shunting the heat fast enough it won't matter when overridden... the point is, I'm still getting 3 alpha's off vs the 2 that the MC module allows for. So... EXCUSE ME PRINCESS.

even at 105% after second coolant flush, that's still easily sunk by the standard 10 heatsinks in half a second. If you have the pilot skills, even faster.

[Wip3ou7]

Itka, on 05 March 2013 - 03:29 AM, said:

It's still 2 slots for same effect as one slot T3. P2W

Yay P2W for life! Go play something else

Obviously you didn't consider the fact that having 2 C-Bill flush modules lets you flush twice instead of just a single time. BOOYAH! Owned.

Personally I think if people have to spend actual $$$ every match on consumables to beat me, LET THEM! LOL! I will ruin your day AND your bank account.

Edited by Wip3ou7, 05 March 2013 - 05:38 AM.

[Tarrasque]

Tincan Nightmare, on 05 March 2013 - 03:35 AM, said:

it still doesn't change the fact that now players can drastically cut their heat levels in a fight

I want to live where you are, that 'drastic' entails 35% of something.

[stjobe]

Wip3ou7, on 05 March 2013 - 05:36 AM, said:

Obviously you didn't consider the fact that having 2 C-Bill flush modules lets you flush twice instead of just a single time. BOOYAH! Owned.

Obviously you didn't consider 'mechs like the un-mastered Stalker, who has only a single module slot. The MC flush is clearly superior to any CB flush in that situation.

If you have more slots, you can always reduce them down to where the difference is just the one slot, and there the MC flush is strictly better than the CB alternative.

[armyof1]

Wip3ou7, on 05 March 2013 - 05:36 AM, said:

Yay P2W for life! Go play something else

Obviously you didn't consider the fact that having 2 C-Bill flush modules lets you flush twice instead of just a single time. BOOYAH! Owned.

Personally I think if people have to spend actual $$$ every match on consumables to beat me, LET THEM! LOL! I will ruin your day AND your bank account.

Yeah because flushing 15% heat helps a lot for the worst heat-building mechs that are those that need coolants in the first place. I'm just waiting for a PPC stalker to wreck you within seconds with 3 alphas while going through MC coolants and see if you still think it's all fine and dandy.

Edited by armyof1, 05 March 2013 - 05:43 AM.

[Tarrasque]

armyof1, on 05 March 2013 - 05:43 AM, said:

Yeah because flushing 15% heat helps a lot for the worst heat-building mechs that are those that need coolants in the first place. I'm just waiting for a PPC stalker to wreck you within seconds with 3 alphas while going through MC coolants and see if you still think it's all fine and dandy.

It is if he killed me (which ultimately does nothing but add +1 to my deaths stat) and wasted his money doing so in the process.


Look at the frakking MC prices for everything in this game man - do you think that flushes are going to come cheap? And you have to rebuy them every single match?


HUGE case of chicken little here. You guys are nuts.

[Marduk Moreau]

Colby Boucher, on 05 March 2013 - 03:22 AM, said:

20% plus 15% = 35%. The command chair post seemed to act as if the 1st and 2nd tier of Coolant Flush are meant to be bought together, suggesting that it certainly is not an impossible purchase. Calm down and actually read before having a tantrum.

What is making players freak is that we are getting something for nothing. What I mean is to flush your coolant it has to be stored somewhere on the Mech (mass/space), That means it can be destroyed before you use it(Crit). What is proposed is a means to have spare coolant stored in Limbo until needed. It is BS.

Artillery and Air strikes... A bit more believable as a module because it is just a transmission away. I am not carrying it, I am making a radio transmission. the ordinance is coming from elsewhere. Plus IIRC you need a 3 ton Command Console to use them so there is still an in game physical restriction to using them. (IIRC)

Why are you so expensive Atlas D-DC!!!

Edited by Marduk Moreau, 05 March 2013 - 05:48 AM.

[Yokaiko]

Marduk Moreau, on 05 March 2013 - 05:46 AM, said:

Artillery and Air strikes... A bit more believable as a module because it is just a transmission away. I am not carrying it, I am making a radio transmission. the ordinance is coming from elsewhere. Plus IIRC you need a 3 ton Command Console to use them so there is still an in game physical restriction to using them. (IIRC)

Ironically stock on one of the mechs with the most module slots in the game......

[Marduk Moreau]

Yokaiko, on 05 March 2013 - 05:48 AM, said:

Ironically stock on one of the mechs with the most module slots in the game......

not ironic at all. It was meant as a command vehicle, commanders usually call for arty and air support. It makes good sense.

Edited by Marduk Moreau, 05 March 2013 - 05:50 AM.

[Yokaiko]

Marduk Moreau, on 05 March 2013 - 05:50 AM, said:

not ironic at all. It was meant as a command vehicle, commanders usually call for arty and air support. It makes good sense.

Not if you are paying real money for it everytime you use it.

[NKAc Street]

red devil2, on 05 March 2013 - 03:34 AM, said:

Well, they don't eat air so they must have some kind of income.

From my observation I see hero mechs all the time, I see in cockpit items all the time when specing and I have purchased MC because I do not have the play time to grind. I have also requested mc for gifts. So where are they not making money?

[Nightcrept]

I like all the e-tears about this.

I have seen games that have done this consumables thing before.

Until we see the prices I don't care. Generally in past games the costs are too high for every game use.

So i should say that as a pug i don't care. I can see some issues for competitive play though.

[armyof1]

Tarrasque, on 05 March 2013 - 05:45 AM, said:

It is if he killed me (which ultimately does nothing but add +1 to my deaths stat) and wasted his money doing so in the process.


Look at the frakking MC prices for everything in this game man - do you think that flushes are going to come cheap? And you have to rebuy them every single match?


HUGE case of chicken little here. You guys are nuts.

Well I think Hero mechs are way too expensive but guess what? They're selling well as I see them quite often. Why would not the clear advantage of coolants sell equally well as they'll give you a much bigger advantage than any Hero mech ever could? If you think the Splatcat was rather silly before, just wait until after the 19th.

[Marduk Moreau]

Yokaiko, on 05 March 2013 - 05:51 AM, said:

Not if you are paying real money for it everytime you use it.

That is a different complaint than the Atlas-D-DC being designed to be a Command Mech, and not in dispute. Presently I cannot even use Arty or Air Strikes if CCs are a requirement.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Nightcrept, on 05 March 2013 - 05:55 AM, said:

I like all the e-tears about this.

I have seen games that have done this consumables thing before.

Until we see the prices I don't care. Generally in past games the costs are too high for every game use.

So i should say that as a pug i don't care. I can see some issues for competitive play though.

It's not a matter of price, it's a matter of History, and a matter of an assurance by the devs who stated that "Coolant" would not be making it into the game.

Coolant Flush has been in MW3 and 4 respectively, and many players of those games felt it was a...cheep addition that negated the overall worry of heat from the game.

Now in Mechwarrior 3, flushing your coolant had detrimental returns on overall heat dissipation after you flushed the coolant. In MW4 it 'felt' like it did, but it was so minor it didn't matter.

The main issue here is that, it's a broken promise if Coolant makes it into the game. Frankly the complaint isn't about Arty or Airstrikes, it's about the coolant flush mechanic, which is being tacked on without it being a central design feature.

[Pihb]

El Penguin, on 05 March 2013 - 04:33 AM, said:

The cb coolant is grape... yeah i am a bad person

[That Guy]

i dont care about P2W right now.

i care about coolant. coolant sucks, and should not be in the game. period

[Robdillard]

Tarrasque, on 05 March 2013 - 05:45 AM, said:

It is if he killed me (which ultimately does nothing but add +1 to my deaths stat) and wasted his money doing so in the process.


Look at the frakking MC prices for everything in this game man - do you think that flushes are going to come cheap? And you have to rebuy them every single match?


HUGE case of chicken little here. You guys are nuts.

I think your missing the larger picture once cw goes live you will generate MC for in game combat. That module could very be a deciding factor in these matches for controlling MC producing territory. I saw this as an alternate mechanic wise to WoT with no illusion I would ultimately see similar products offered. They have been copying everything else from WoT Successful model just releasing it in a different order.

This is world of mechs ,people just noticing this were in denial. Seems the development staff were also unaware of this as well. Devs could solve this now before its implementation and offer a huge c bill cost for the mc consumables. People not paying for the game are expected to contribute by playing the game more often to enjoy the same benefits as those that spend some money to save time.

TL:DR. less usage of MC consumables till CW drops allowing MC generation for time spent. Make MC consumable available at high c bill cost as alternative.