152 replies to this topic

[Sybreed]

This is just a reminder for people who want some weapon systems to be nerfed (notably, LRMs and SRMs)

These systems, when used by TT "standards", by this I mean 2XLRM15, 2XLRM20, 1XLRM20, 2xLRM10, 1xLRM10 (mediums anyone?), etc, are balanced.

It's when a mech can fire 50-60 LRMs or more at once that they become a problem.

It's when a mech can fire 18-30 SRMs at once that they are a problem.

So, don't blame the game imbalance on the weapons, blame it on your precious mech customization and the fact that PGI let you boat anything.

If you nerf weapon systems, you will hurt more those guys who want to use balanced builds than the boaters.

edit: For new readers, there are about 2-3 pages where we suggest a new way the hardpoint system could work that would still permit customization and to some extent boating, but would limit abuse like the 6 PPC stalker and splatcat.

Edited by Sybreed, 10 March 2013 - 12:30 PM.

[Cpt Jason McCarthy]

Boats are not the problem the weapons are ... especially when they have been buffed compared to TT values.

[hashinshin]

yeah, no

boating either shows excessive abuse in a particular case, or that a weapon is so OP that you can just field 200 of it.

EVERYONE is boating as many SRM6 as they can on their mech. LRMs on the other hand are an "1 LRM is good, 2 is better, 3 is best" weapon.

[Sybreed]

hashinshin, on 05 March 2013 - 07:33 PM, said:

yeah, no

boating either shows excessive abuse in a particular case, or that a weapon is so OP that you can just field 200 of it.

EVERYONE is boating as many SRM6 as they can on their mech. LRMs on the other hand are an "1 LRM is good, 2 is better, 3 is best" weapon.

sounds like putting 2 missiles hardpoints on most mechs with missiles would fix your problem.

[Zerstorer Stallin]

Yes boating is the issue. The WHOLE reason of having hard points is to stop boating. However PGI has failed terribly to grasp even this simple idea. What other purpose does a hard point system serve? you can say well its to perserve the mechs orginal feel. yeah I've seen plenty of 6 srm6 cats in TT and the tech readouts. God knows everyone is familar with the 6 PPC stalker... really.

Edited by Zerstorer Stallin, 11 March 2013 - 01:44 PM.

[Corvus Antaka]

I totally agree.

We really need a stock mech only game mode option.

c6 is already getting pretty predictable.

[Monky]

Weapons are always the problem. I do like stock mech only queue though.

[Critical Fumble]

Or you could just nerf boating.

For LRMs and SRMs that could mean that after firing one launcher, any other launchers fired in the next 0.25 to 1 second become a cluster, and they follow a path that gives them a certain density per impact area.

As an example, say that cluster of 10 LRMs would form a pattern where all 10 would strike the torso of a static HBK-sized target. If you tried to fire 40 LRMs at the same target, the LRM/m² would be maintained, and not all missiles would strike the target at all. You would get more hits using the second option, but would be less efficient overall.

_{Hate the meta, not the mecha.}

[Hresvelgr]

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 05 March 2013 - 09:36 PM, said:

We really need a stock mech only game mode option.

Won't it be "counter-strike 3050 online" then? What's the point of being able to customize mechs in that case?

[Iacov]

i think, too, that boats are the problem
2 or even 3 srms6 are not that big of a deal...5 or 6 are!
same with ppcs....

[Krzysztof z Bagien]

I'm not trolling or anything, but I just don't get it: why everyone thinks that this so called "boating" is something bad? Why are 3 srm6 OK, but 5 are not? I mean what is the logic behind this? Could anyone enlighten me?

[Royalewithcheese]

Krzysztof z Bagien, on 06 March 2013 - 04:13 AM, said:

I'm not trolling or anything, but I just don't get it: why everyone thinks that this so called "boating" is something bad? Why are 3 srm6 OK, but 5 are not? I mean what is the logic behind this? Could anyone enlighten me?

I got no idea hahahaha. I mean, how many of the most successful mechs are even boats? You have the splatcat, ppc snipers, and

[Hydromorph]

Sybreed, on 05 March 2013 - 07:04 PM, said:

This is just a reminder for people who want some weapon systems to be nerfed (notably, LRMs and SRMs)

These systems, when used by TT "standards", by this I mean 2XLRM15, 2XLRM20, 1XLRM20, 2xLRM10, 1xLRM10 (mediums anyone?), etc, are balanced.

It's when a mech can fire 50-60 LRMs or more at once that they become a problem.

It's when a mech can fire 18-30 SRMs at once that they are a problem.

So, don't blame the game imbalance on the weapons, blame it on your precious mech customization and the fact that PGI let you boat anything.

If you nerf weapon systems, you will hurt more those guys who want to use balanced builds than the boaters.

Thats one of the reasons why Omni Mech's were so powerful, among other things.

[StalaggtIKE]

Royalewithcheese, on 06 March 2013 - 06:02 AM, said:

I got no idea hahahaha. I mean, how many of the most successful mechs are even boats? You have the splatcat, ppc snipers, and

Well it is detrimental for mech releases. I'm sure every mech release must consider exploitable builds. The sooner boating is addressed, the more expedient the devs can crank out newer mechs.

[Lyrik]

The problem is that PGI is sticking to cannon variants of mechs. BIG mistake. Thats why we have such stupid like the A1. Or stalkers with 6 PPC's.

But I don't know if introducing big/small hardpoints would be better. It would reduce diversity for the non powergamer :-)

[Royalewithcheese]

StalaggtIKE, on 06 March 2013 - 06:16 AM, said:

Well it is detrimental for mech releases. I'm sure every mech release must consider exploitable builds. The sooner boating is addressed, the more expedient the devs can crank out newer mechs.

I think that's a good point. OTOH, I also think a lot of the things that would cause serious shake-ups aren't boats at all - it's stuff like an assault with the ability to run 2xAC20/2xGauss as part of a balanced loadout or something that poptarts better than the 3D.

[Krzysztof z Bagien]

I think I've never been killed by 6 PPC Stalker (and rarely see them actually), and SplatCat got me like 3 times.

[AegisKay]

I run a Stalker with 4 LRM15's and as my only boat I can say going up against PPC's, ER lasers or Lights mechs is a nightmare. I know people who sit in the open, caught out or not moving from cover to cover and the complaints are the same. Limited ammunition, medium range and long travel time are a big weakness for the LRM that no one seems to understand. Take a bigger engine and smaller weapons and soon you'll see LRM's (and boating in general) aren't the problem.

[StalaggtIKE]

Royalewithcheese, on 06 March 2013 - 06:44 AM, said:

I think that's a good point. OTOH, I also think a lot of the things that would cause serious shake-ups aren't boats at all - it's stuff like an assault with the ability to run 2xAC20/2xGauss as part of a balanced loadout or something that poptarts better than the 3D.

In ballistic terms, 2xAC20/2xGauss, are considered boating. However I would not consider these instances as a problem, for the simple fact that one must invest a lot to do so. However LRM boating with 180 ammo a ton is an issue. Perhaps a simple fix would be to bring the ammo count down to the standard 100 count.

Edit: Don't get me wrong. I feel that LRM are pretty weak, which is why they must be boated in order to be effective. I want boating to be addressed with LRM, so that they can be properly balanced and made effective without the need of boating. Once balanced even LRM5 could be useful. This would lead to less specialized builds, so we don't have long range LRM builds vs close range brawlers all the time. Or players groaning because they've dropped on a large map, such as Alpine.

Edited by StalaggtIKE, 06 March 2013 - 07:04 AM.

[Krzysztof z Bagien]

And what is exactly wrong in specialised builds?