400 replies to this topic

[MaddMaxx]

Sheraf, on 07 March 2013 - 06:01 AM, said:

But when the LRM keep firing at you, there is something else coming . Sometimes, I used LRM to suppress people in cover.

LOL

And when the jumpers "signal low" starts flashing, they had best hope it isn't a D-DC and his little friend 3L, who do not like Pop-tarts at all. LOL

P.S. Has anyone who runs a serious LRM build, actually ever run out of Missiles?

[Gallowglas]

w0rm, on 07 March 2013 - 03:34 AM, said:

This might be new to you, but may I introduce you to a well known and tested concept called TAKE COVER FFS?
Even the french learned that concept after the Battle of Agincourt.

I hear this a lot. And it's nice in theory. In practice, spending the whole match just sitting behind a hill or building waiting for your opponent's 3+ LRM boat team to run out of ammo or kill off your other teammates who can't look for cover isn't exactly the most enthralling tactic. I'm not sure that the weapon is broken, but those people who think LRM's are just a "support" weapon or useless as they stand right now are deluded.

Mind you, the problem would be less pronounced if the lights who are agile enough to avoid that mess would go after the LRM boats instead of dueling with the other lights out in the open. However, with many of the Stalker LRM builds, it's still dangerous to engage them up close since they can do massive damage up close as well as at long range.

[Nightcrept]

MaddMaxx, on 07 March 2013 - 07:01 AM, said:

LOL

And when the jumpers "signal low" starts flashing, they had best hope it isn't a D-DC and his little friend 3L, who do not like Pop-tarts at all. LOL

P.S. Has anyone who runs a serious LRM build, actually ever run out of Missiles?

Yes. If I am in a good game against skilled opponents it's easy to go through 2000 rounds of lrm ammo.

[Nightcrept]

Gallowglas, on 07 March 2013 - 07:02 AM, said:

I hear this a lot. And it's nice in theory. In practice, spending the whole match just sitting behind a hill or building waiting for your opponent's 3+ LRM boat team to run out of ammo or kill off your other teammates who can't look for cover isn't exactly the most enthralling tactic. I'm not sure that the weapon is broken, but those people who think LRM's are just a "support" weapon or useless as they stand right now are deluded.

Mind you, the problem would be less pronounced if the lights who are agile enough to avoid that mess would go after the LRM boats instead of dueling with the other lights out in the open. However, with many of the Stalker LRM builds, it's still dangerous to engage them up close since they can do massive damage up close as well as at long range.

Not useless. Useless against good players and on certain maps.

And I do agree that I have less issues with Lrms then I do with the stalkers. I think when most players say lrms are op they are thinking of stalkers boating a trillion launchers. You just can't balance the weapon against that without breaking it on the other mechs.

[Hawks]

Suki, on 07 March 2013 - 06:48 AM, said:

I "love" such people like you who don't listen to others, the only true opinion is their.
It reminds me of my 2yo niece.

I do listen to other people. I just ignore them when what they are saying is wrong.

Agent of Change, on 07 March 2013 - 06:32 AM, said:

I'm done arguing this point. We'll just leave it at, you die badly at range and I get to laugh.

I will grant against non-skilled opponents LRM's take little skill to use so if your position is that LRM's are a no-skill weapon you must make it easy on them.

Keep up, grandad - you're about 25 posts too slow. I already said I've switched to LRM boats now. The only difference is that, unlike you, I'm using my free hand to tug myself off

[Agent of Change]

MaddMaxx, on 07 March 2013 - 07:01 AM, said:

LOL

And when the jumpers "signal low" starts flashing, they had best hope it isn't a D-DC and his little friend 3L, who do not like Pop-tarts at all. LOL

P.S. Has anyone who runs a serious LRM build, actually ever run out of Missiles?

Yes all teh time but usually only with 1 enemy alive and i only run out because i also take 5 ML, Tag, and DHS

[Fut]

Noth, on 07 March 2013 - 03:13 AM, said:

that's the problem. They either dominate or are useless because the other team understands how to counter them. It just shows that LRMs are broken overall.

That doesn't show that LRMs are broken at all. It shows that a one-trick pony (ie. an LRM Boat) can easily be defeated by people who know how to mitigate their effectiveness. The same goes for all 'Mechs that are designed with only one purpose.

Maybe people have to start thinking about their designs as more balanced rather than a min/max situation where they get utterly demolished when their out of their element.

[Agent of Change]

Fut, on 07 March 2013 - 07:37 AM, said:

That doesn't show that LRMs are broken at all. It shows that a one-trick pony (ie. an LRM Boat) can easily be defeated by people who know how to mitigate their effectiveness. The same goes for all 'Mechs that are designed with only one purpose.

Maybe people have to start thinking about their designs as more balanced rather than a min/max situation where they get utterly demolished when their out of their element.

The second best defense an LRM boat has against competent opponents is at least some form of close range firepower, the best defense he has is a friend willing to support him.

you know what works awesome, if you have two LRM'rs you space them 180m apart, if you get inside my minimum my buddy ligths you up with lrms and i hit you with lasers. If I don't have a buddy, I'll fight but often it's just to soften you up in the hopes someone comes to save my ***.

[Xmith]

I didn't feel like reading all the threads but did anybody mention tags? I find tags to be a real problem.

[Sheraf]

Gallowglas, on 07 March 2013 - 07:02 AM, said:

I hear this a lot. And it's nice in theory. In practice, spending the whole match just sitting behind a hill or building waiting for your opponent's 3+ LRM boat team to run out of ammo or kill off your other teammates who can't look for cover isn't exactly the most enthralling tactic. I'm not sure that the weapon is broken, but those people who think LRM's are just a "support" weapon or useless as they stand right now are deluded.

Mind you, the problem would be less pronounced if the lights who are agile enough to avoid that mess would go after the LRM boats instead of dueling with the other lights out in the open. However, with many of the Stalker LRM builds, it's still dangerous to engage them up close since they can do massive damage up close as well as at long range.

You can move from cover to cover, and always make sure that there is a closest cover to fall back in case LRM blocks out the sun above you

Edited by Sheraf, 07 March 2013 - 07:48 AM.

[Windsaw]

Fut, on 07 March 2013 - 07:37 AM, said:

That doesn't show that LRMs are broken at all. It shows that a one-trick pony (ie. an LRM Boat) can easily be defeated by people who know how to mitigate their effectiveness.

But LRM boating is not the problem.
Even alrounder mechs with some LRMs are crippled so much when the enemies have ECM for example.
LRMs are not light equipment. They weight quite a lot.
I tell you, I would love to keep the LRM 10 in a Centurion for example, but a single AMS reduces its effectiveness by half (to med-laser level) and ECM totally negates it. And that does not even take other anti-LRM behaviour into account.

For these risks, LRMs are simply too heavy.
Unless you boat. Then it may be rock paper scissors, but at least if you get the opportunity, you rule.

Which IMO makes LRMs pretty broken.
I would consider LRMs fine if all LRM types from 5, 10, 15 and 20 have advantages to be useful and at the same time boating is discouraged.
None of this is happening now.

[Agent of Change]

Xmith, on 07 March 2013 - 07:46 AM, said:

I didn't feel like reading all the threads but did anybody mention tags? I find tags to be a real problem.

run a DDC?

[Sheraf]

Some DDC just stand there and shoot you, don't even need tag

[Gen0]

Suki, on 07 March 2013 - 06:43 AM, said:

Think somebody doesn't even know what's LRM boat.
Just another "noskill" user qq about something he thinks is "noskill".
Just for YOU a'll coy one time my post, dont wanna wright it all ower before:
[color=#959595]After the last patch it became really hard to live as a safe LRM boat, hiding behind the rocks and spamming volleys of missiles in the targets becorse [/color]there's no targets[color=#959595]. Smarp people hide behind the hills, smart people hide under ECM and most of all half the team or even almost all the team all became gauss/ppc snipers. So if you're an LRM boat and want to something other than standing behind, spamming missiles in nowhere and waiting for your little 3L nemezida you have to:[/color]
[color=#959595]go frontline and give the target youself.[/color]
[color=#959595]go frontline and tank all the damage youself.[/color]
[color=#959595]go frontline and kill all the ECM-carriers before they come to you also yourself.[/color]
[color=#959595]go frontline and try to kill at least somebody yourself course your teammates doesn't press "R" buttond just to get the kill themself. They are ready to die and they are almost always dying but don't give a kill to another teammate.[/color]



Try to boat "noskill" LRMs and do at least some damage rather then qq here.

You've obviously never played a PUG, smart people are only as useful a their ability to communicate and thus co-ordinate. That fact makes PUG's look very VERY dumb. So again this goes back to the great big failing of this game's communication: voice in-game that is actually used over TS etc in PUGs.

[MaddMaxx]

Agent of Change, on 07 March 2013 - 07:15 AM, said:

Yes all teh time but usually only with 1 enemy alive and i only run out because i also take 5 ML, Tag, and DHS

5ML's and DHS's? But isn't that doing it wrong?

[Xie Belvoule]

Dixie Normiss, on 07 March 2013 - 02:09 AM, said:

Things were so close to balanced and matchs were fun but since the last patch its become an LRM clickfest again. I understand you guys need to put a weapon in the game for the kiddies that's easy to use and requires no skill but its killing the fun again. Its bad enough that LRMs force us to use only 5 out of the 64 mechs available since its crazy to fight without an ECM. I don't know how you should fix it this time just that 6 out of 8 mechs are boats each match again and theres no point in playing the game at the moment because of it.
Edit - AMS are worthless (Including double AMS) and I know I can stick to cover the whole game that is the point of this topic that hiding from LRMs the whole match is boring and no fun.

I mean seriously, L2P bro.

[Agent of Change]

MaddMaxx, on 07 March 2013 - 07:55 AM, said:

5ML's and DHS's? But isn't that doing it wrong?

not when you are launching 60 missiles (w/ that pretty artemis pattern) at a time anyway

[Jakob Knight]

If a person is the target of one LRM volley from a single battlemech, LRMs are balanced. If a person is the target of two LRM salvoes from two different battlemechs, it's suddenly evidence that LRMs are OP and everyone is running nothing but LRM units.



Seriously. The players who never learned to fight beyond FPS will always feel the sky is falling because they can't understand LRMs (and don't want to). LRMs are fine, and that they might actually start being used again after a period where everyone was running ECM units (and a good number still are) is actually a good thing, not a bad. It means people are finally starting to use what was supposed to be a primary weapon in the game.

Remember, LRMs have the most counters of -any- system in the game, and is the only one that can be rendered absolutely useless by simply getting into typical combat ranges. If you expect a weapon system facing so many disadvantages to not pay for itself when it overcomes everything against it, then I'd say you need to reexamine your own standards for what is OP and what isn't.

[MaddMaxx]

I just don't like it, when after a large Volley has hit my Mech, it takes Betty about 3 minutes to describe all the "shtuf" I have just lost of my Mech. And she always does while I am running back behind the Cover I was just in. lol

[Orzorn]

The issue with LRMs is consistency. You can miss a ton because of certain circumstances, distance, enemy speed, enemy ECM, etc. But then you might get one or two hits and just melt the enemy. Its frustrating to play, and to play against. I say this as someone who has both played an LRM mech (not even a boat, a trebuchet with 2 LRM 15, 3 mlas, and tag) and against them many times.

The issue? They are too slow (100 m/s), but do huge damage (1.8 damage per missile). A single LRM 20 volley is 38 damage. The newer clusters allow them to hit single locations much more easily. You might be dropping 30+ damage on a single component. But you will miss often due to the 100 m/s speed, no matter how accurately and well timed you may have even been firing them (With or without lock).

There's been some good ideas on how to fix this issue in http://mwomercs.com/...age__p__2019814

It isn't a matter of overpowered (Sort of is, but only when boated heavily and even still they need to play to their strengths) or underpowered (occasionally, especially in low numbers), but of consistency. The high damage, low speed of LRMs currently supports boating a lot of them, because your chances of hitting are low due to ECM and slow speed, you want to kill the target, or cripple them, with one salvo.

Edited by Orzorn, 07 March 2013 - 08:11 AM.