400 replies to this topic

[Fate 6]

I'm tired of LRMs and snipers. I want to fight people with close range weapons too >_>

[Praehotec8]

Major Scumbag, on 08 March 2013 - 10:42 AM, said:

What?? Give me a direct fire weapon with auto lock and auto hit. Then you would have a point. Holding a curser on a target is way easier then judging distance and leading target to get a hit. If you think it is the same skill hitting max range with a direct fire weapon compared to LRM hitting. You are confused and need to try it more. Plus when you hit at max range with missles. Way better damage then a direct fire weapon hitting at 1000m.
I do see LRM are needed and different type of skill involved. I just hate how they focus on a weapon system already used the most and they just forget about ballistics. We do have another mech coming out and sadly they focused on LRM and this mech is ballistic based.

I've played over a 1000 drops, so I have tried quite a bit. I wil grant you that long-range sniping requires a certain amount of skill. However, even that is not terribly difficult. I have used PPCs and ACs to hit targets at over 800m before, and I find I can hit as easily with them at that range as with indirectly (or directly) fired missles at that range. As much as people whine about it, long-range, indirect LRM fire is fairly weak. Targets have plenty of time to find cover, and often the firing mech does not know if the target is even hittable when he fires (target may be blocked by terrain he cannot see). I rarely fire at mechs >750m due to poor chance to hit (and I often bring 3 or less tons of ammo, so shots are a premium).

Technically, sure it's easy to obtain the lock and maintain it. Knowing when to do so, and when not to maximize damage and minimize wasted shots and where to position one's self is the challenge with LRMs. Again, not really hard, but people minimize this, and think the only skill is manual dexterity. For example, say you've just fired a long-range weapon and another mech engages you close range. What do you do? For a fire-forget weapon the answer is simple: engage the close mech or evade. YOur shot either hit or missed already. For an LRM, you can either do that and lose your shot, or you can take fire and guide your missles in. The correct answer will vary from time to time depending on other factors, but requires at least a modicum of thought.

Want to show your skill? Ditch your mouse and use a joystick. It suddenly gets much more challenging to hit and track accurately. Try it out, and then come back and talk (maybe you already do). That makes a better discussion than LRM vs. brawling. I still say, "nerf the mouse!"

[Rhent]

Praehotec8, on 08 March 2013 - 11:45 PM, said:

I've played over a 1000 drops, so I have tried quite a bit. I wil grant you that long-range sniping requires a certain amount of skill. However, even that is not terribly difficult. I have used PPCs and ACs to hit targets at over 800m before, and I find I can hit as easily with them at that range as with indirectly (or directly) fired missles at that range. As much as people whine about it, long-range, indirect LRM fire is fairly weak. Targets have plenty of time to find cover, and often the firing mech does not know if the target is even hittable when he fires (target may be blocked by terrain he cannot see). I rarely fire at mechs >750m due to poor chance to hit (and I often bring 3 or less tons of ammo, so shots are a premium).

Technically, sure it's easy to obtain the lock and maintain it. Knowing when to do so, and when not to maximize damage and minimize wasted shots and where to position one's self is the challenge with LRMs. Again, not really hard, but people minimize this, and think the only skill is manual dexterity. For example, say you've just fired a long-range weapon and another mech engages you close range. What do you do? For a fire-forget weapon the answer is simple: engage the close mech or evade. YOur shot either hit or missed already. For an LRM, you can either do that and lose your shot, or you can take fire and guide your missles in. The correct answer will vary from time to time depending on other factors, but requires at least a modicum of thought.

Want to show your skill? Ditch your mouse and use a joystick. It suddenly gets much more challenging to hit and track accurately. Try it out, and then come back and talk (maybe you already do). That makes a better discussion than LRM vs. brawling. I still say, "nerf the mouse!"

Playing with a joystick is to eating through your ******. Sure its possible, but its going to be a very uncomfortable experience. Friends don't let friends play with joysticks.

[Mr 144]

Praehotec8, on 08 March 2013 - 11:45 PM, said:

Want to show your skill? Ditch your mouse and use a joystick.

March 19th, 2013: Rise of the HoTaS

I'm very excited to try out the underhive again....and yes, it's all about pilot skill with a stick. I'm confident enough in 15+ years of SIM piloting and joystick use that I can hold my own quite fine with analog turning finally in.

Mr 144

[Praehotec8]

RickySpanish, on 08 March 2013 - 08:28 PM, said:

The difference is that as long as someone can see your target, once you get lock you can pretty much fire those missiles as soon as you think they're going to hit - with or without LOS. The AC20 and any other weapon requires you to see the enemy at some point. I had a game earlier today with 6 kills and just over 900 damage where half of my targets never saw me, and a couple were as dumbfounded as me when the catapult wrecked my awesome on patch day. In fact the first player I killed was an Atlas out in the open with ECM who figured he could catch a few salvos and live while shooting his gauss at me, but on the third his CT exploded. A bad move on his part but being able to tear up the heaviest mech in the game so quickly was unnerving, especially because without Artemis I would've just given him a bit of an itch and the second and third salvos were launched without LOS once someone else painted him.

You know indirect fire does not benefit from artemis and has not changed for several patches right?

An atlas wide out in the open with/without ECM who waited to get hit with 3+ loads of LRMs is a fool and deserves to get killed. He could get killed by snipers doing the same thing. People are learning how to counter ECM, so you can't totally rely on it for protection unless you're a leg-humping light who hunts down LRM boats to drink their tears. Besides, how many LRMs were you running? I would guess at least 60, and boating multiples of anything is a separate issue in itself. I doubt he died from only 3 salvos of anything less than 3X LRM 15s. If you're in an assault boating LRMs, you darn well better be ravaging mechs from range as you're depriving your team of a valuable damage-soaking, brawling assault.

[Corvus Antaka]

take an ECM mech if your having a hard time. rush the LRM boats. Jam them and murder them.

use cover..theres a lot of flight time.

I see tons of lances and pilots rushing out into the open getting murdered by LRMS.

This is a bad strategy!

[Sanreal]

I used to play Jenners. Streaks made that impossible. Then I played mediums. LRMs and Gauss/ERPPC builds made that impossible. So if you can't beat them, join them. Now I play a C4 Cat with 2 LRM 15s, and 2 Streak SRMs. I play PUGs only and still have unbelievably good stats with this mech. It's an almost guaranteed win. LRMs just have no counter... unless it's ECM and then it's complete nullification.

LRMs are definitely overpowered, skill-less, and not much fun. But all missiles in this game need to be nerfed. That includes SRMs and Streaks. Nerf ECM too, and we might find a playable game again for the other 95% of mechs out there.

Sad days to be a brawler. Unless you're a Splatcat.

[Praehotec8]

Rhent, on 08 March 2013 - 11:47 PM, said:

Playing with a joystick is to eating through your ******. Sure its possible, but its going to be a very uncomfortable experience. Friends don't let friends play with joysticks.

I use one and it works fine. I'm not an elite player, but I generally finish in the top half or better of most games I play, and it's way more fun than a mouse. Besides, if you want to talk about needing skill well, there you go. It's actually pretty easy to brawl using a mouse to aim, so people shouldn't get on the forum and get mad about how LRMs take no skill unless they use a joystick and can post good numbers with lasers, etc...

[Xiang]

Hawks, on 07 March 2013 - 03:58 AM, said:

I just played my first game since the patch. In my Trebuchet, I was killed by a single hit from each of an LRM20 and an LRM10.

Something is very not right.

Dont forget, the end of round screen does not account for being hit by multiples of the same weapon at the same time. There is a good chance you were hit by more than 1 LRM20 and 1 LRM10.

Xiang

[CECILOFS]

All I heard was "I personally don't like LRMs and don't know how to play against them, so I liked it when they were useless and I didn't have to worry about them. I personally think that LRMs require no skill to use because I prefer twitch-based aiming compared to using group tactics to defeat the enemy".

Or in other words: QQ more L2P. This is not CoD, LRMs are valid weapons and require proper use of tactics to use effectively and to counter.

Pro tip: Don't charge the enemy formation out in the open!

[CECILOFS]

Sanreal, on 08 March 2013 - 11:58 PM, said:

LRMs just have no counter... unless it's ECM and then it's complete nullification.

Yeah except getting behind cover, sniping them in the head or getting within 180m. So really there are many counters to LRMs and you are wrong.

[Teralitha]

Sigh... wish they had made LRMs like the ones in MW4... Those really did take skill. but noooooo..... they wanted to do it their way. Well.. it didnt out so good.

[Praehotec8]

Teralitha, on 09 March 2013 - 12:42 AM, said:

Sigh... wish they had made LRMs like the ones in MW4... Those really did take skill. but noooooo..... they wanted to do it their way. Well.. it didnt out so good.

how did they work in MW4?

[Stoicblitzer]

i haven't used lerms in months. Too risky in pugs. Maybe I should bring them back since class matching no longer exists.

[Suki]

Sanreal, on 08 March 2013 - 11:58 PM, said:

I used to play Jenners. Streaks made that impossible. Then I played mediums. LRMs and Gauss/ERPPC builds made that impossible. So if you can't beat them, join them. Now I play a C4 Cat with 2 LRM 15s, and 2 Streak SRMs. I play PUGs only and still have unbelievably good stats with this mech. It's an almost guaranteed win. LRMs just have no counter... unless it's ECM and then it's complete nullification.

LRMs are definitely overpowered, skill-less, and not much fun. But all missiles in this game need to be nerfed. That includes SRMs and Streaks. Nerf ECM too, and we might find a playable game again for the other 95% of mechs out there.

Sad days to be a brawler. Unless you're a Splatcat.

So You hate LRMs, SRMs, PPCs, GAUSSs. If you don't like it all, go testing grounds play some "machineflamer online".

[vrok]

LRMs are the most easily countered weapon system in the game. Only works well against new and/or really bad players.

Edited by vrok, 09 March 2013 - 04:12 AM.

[Galenit]

CECILOFS, on 09 March 2013 - 12:35 AM, said:

Yeah except getting behind cover, sniping them in the head or getting within 180m. So really there are many counters to LRMs and you are wrong.

Or put 1,5 tons of ams on your mech. This reduces the damage from my lrms by 1/6, is there a passive system that can do that against direct fire weapons?
And is there a passive system that reduces the damage to 50% for direct fire weapons, if i and 2 teammates have the 1,5 tons of this passive system spend?

If 5 mechs around you have ams and you have ams too, thats 9 tons together, you will complete nullify my lrm damage.
6x1,5 tons ams to nullify 25 tons of loadout (2x alrm15, 8tons ammo, tag), that lets only 3 mpls left.

6 people each spending 1,5 tons is nothing for reducing a enemy 65ton mech to 18 firepower, most lights bring more firepower ...

Edited by Galenit, 09 March 2013 - 05:13 AM.

[xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx]

Oh no! ECM got another slap on the wrist! LRMS ARE NOW OP! EVERYBODY PANIC! ITS LIKE THE TITANIC EXCEPT ITS FULL OF BEARS.

Stop making threads like these. They're wasting space that could have been used on other threads. You people don't know a ******** thing about OP in games or concepts of balance.

[Nth Adonis]

SpiralRazor, on 08 March 2013 - 10:02 PM, said:

You know, ive died once to LRMs in the last 100 games ive played.

So seriously...is it LRMs or is it you bro?

I know where i would bet.


Edit: Also, lasers unique? Lol?

Who said anything about dying dummy?

[Tyler Durden]

Rhent, on 08 March 2013 - 11:47 PM, said:

Playing with a joystick is to eating through your ******. Sure its possible, but its going to be a very uncomfortable experience. Friends don't let friends play with joysticks.

Simply not true. Have you even played with one for more than a few games? It's not like we play with an Atari 2600 joystick, i hope you realize.