145 replies to this topic

[Delas Ting Usee]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 07 March 2013 - 08:30 AM, said:

Thank you captain obvious. That is definitely not what I am talking about. We are talking about a specific subset of player that either through lack of understanding or cowardice is sitting back and waiting to engage, not to help the team win but because they are scared or looking only to pad their own stats.

How can you tell the difference?

[Bubba Wilkins]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 07 March 2013 - 08:30 AM, said:

Thank you captain obvious. That is definitely not what I am talking about.

We are talking about a specific subset of player that either through lack of understanding or cowardice is sitting back and waiting to engage, not to help the team win but because they are scared or looking only to pad their own stats.

Say that is the case...then they will lose more often and their ELO will drop accordingly. At which time you will no longer be paired with them.

Problem solved!

[Kylere]

Xie Belvoule, on 07 March 2013 - 08:29 AM, said:

Your main problem is that your (sic) a PUG and thus not there to win.

You call someone else arrogant and you assume that PUGs are only there to be beaten? I win on a fairly regular basis while pugging, and far more often against pre-mades and syncscum than other pugs.



Xie Belvoule, what guild/clan are you in?


I am building a list of groups to never join.

Edited by Kylere, 07 March 2013 - 08:44 AM.

[Golfin Man]

MadPanda, on 07 March 2013 - 05:59 AM, said:

So you think its a bad thing that we no longer have those guys that charge at the enemy and get obliterated within seconds? And those light mechs that go "WEEEEEEE I'M IMMORTAL" and run into to the whole enemy team only to get shot down instantly. You actually miss those things? Go play Hawken man, that's your game.

I recall reading a post where you claim MWO has become too easy, basically due to ELO failing(not disagreeing necessarily). Try actually playing Hawken, I'm not sure why people think its a COD-like game but its just not. Just because something is fast paced doesn't make it a no skill instant kill game (not saying COD is necessarily like that either, it gets a bad rap). I feel like this is one of those Xgame vs Ygame arguments, with some on each side bad-mouthing the other game, with some people in the middle who just enjoy gaming. You've also come off as fairly arrogant in other posts (DDC brawler build) so maybe I shouldn't take anything you say too seriously.

Edited by Golfin Man, 07 March 2013 - 08:46 AM.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Bubba Wilkins, on 07 March 2013 - 08:40 AM, said:

Say that is the case...then they will lose more often and their ELO will drop accordingly. At which time you will no longer be paired with them.

Problem solved!

See I would hope that would be the case. But my Elo experience thus far has been very uneven. As I said earlier, sometimes my teams understand the concept of the game, and sometimes my team seems more interested in hiding behind the dropship and dying last.

I'm not saying I'm in everyone's head, I don't know what they are thinking...but from doing a lot of matches..some people seem to be opportunists playing to pad their game stats as opposed to actually winning the game.

[Terror Teddy]

Kylere, on 07 March 2013 - 08:37 AM, said:

You are confusing moving tactically with utter cowardice. I am griping about cowardice, not tactics. People are intentionally holding back until the battle is already won, or holding back until they can grab a kill shot rather than actively playing.

And how do you truly notice the difference?

They hardly pad their stats as their weapon stats will be rather low, kills will be few and if they DO sit back too long the team might loose simply because they lack the support from them.

And then you have the problem of knowing their mind.

A twin ERPPC players that sit back and pop shots - well, they ARE damn long range weapons
Same with gauss

With an assault mech I tend to sit back and pop LRM5's until the main battle is joined and then wade into the fray when everyone is engaged since a fresh atlas and enemies with no targets tend to make my life miserable.

With the X5 I've found tthat twin LRM5 and 4ML is very efficient and 113km/h is enought to sit back and emty the tubes as my friends find me targets and then i dash into the fray and help out with lasers or guard the rear for the light cappers.

So, I DO sit back the first five minutes depending on how quickly a fight goes downhill because the build and efficiency behind it dictates it.

What you see as cowardice might very well be what they call tactic.

[Xie Belvoule]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 07 March 2013 - 08:33 AM, said:

You are calling me arrogant for wanting a game that caters to all types of players? And not one that is only playable to people who put their real life on hold to be in the game every day for hours at a time while on a headset?

I'm not saying they are bad people, but some of us have other priorities than the game.

And actual arrogance is your first paragraph in your reply.



Just to requote it. Did you re-read that at all before you posted?

Yup, again your arrogance is baffling, instead of thinking and reading, you choose to believe your position to be correct and everyone else's to be incorrect. I mean, by what I said above, that as long as their isn't in game voice chat your going to be nothing more than mobs to be shot. Don't like it, take it up with the devs, their the ones hanging you pugs out to dry by not giving you the tools you need to be useful. Until then all pugs are....

[Nicholas Carlyle]

I'm not really going to bother responding to you bud. Have fun playing the game, but views on things are very silly.

[Agent of Change]

Xie Belvoule, on 07 March 2013 - 08:37 AM, said:

They are PUGS, as long as you and they continue to pug you are these guys......

I got at least three problem with this:

1. I know several folks who are amazing players possibly among the best in game in their chosen chassis who pug and do so to massive effect. So the Choice to PUG doesn't = bad your assumption is a problem.

2. Attitudes and arrogance like this is part of why Premades are getting /have had a bad name. I personally think voip teams are how the game should be played, but that doesn't make the people who don't universally useless. Saying it does just makes things harder on the more reasonable of us.

3. Even money says you have been rolled by an all pug team on several occasions, you just probably assumed they were a pre-made. More to the point where do you think premade players come from, most will come from pugs at some point and if you are a **** about it they won't be part of your team.

but yeah keep ******* that chicken.

[Xie Belvoule]

Kylere, on 07 March 2013 - 08:43 AM, said:

You call someone else arrogant and you assume that PUGs are only there to be beaten? I win on a fairly regular basis while pugging, and far more often against pre-mades and syncscum than other pugs.



Xie Belvoule, what guild/clan are you in?


I am building a list of groups to never join.

Wait, What? This is hilarious coming from the guy who's sig is: "When your teammates are silent idiots apha-striking their trial Assaults into hillsides it makes every kill taste better!"

The irony is delicious, obviously your also arrogant as hell.

Again I reiterate, until C3 is in game your just mobs with poor scripting.

[Kylere]

Xie Belvoule, on 07 March 2013 - 08:55 AM, said:

Wait, What? This is hilarious coming from the guy who's sig is: "When your teammates are silent idiots apha-striking their trial Assaults into hillsides it makes every kill taste better!"

The irony is delicious, obviously your also arrogant as hell.

Again I reiterate, until C3 is in game your just mobs with poor scripting.

Okay, I see your clan will not let you admit to being a member. Is English your first language?

Edited by Kylere, 07 March 2013 - 08:58 AM.

[Fiachdubh]

Kylere, on 07 March 2013 - 05:38 AM, said:

Okay, it is time to completely remove stats. Every PUG match I am in is becoming a game of "Wait until someone else engages so I do not die"

This was always an issue before but now it has grown dramatically worse. Atlai with ERPPCS playing sniper? Ravens that will not run into the enemy rear? Cataphacts thinking they are Catapults?

This is silly, the sheer cowardice is going to drive me to a teamspeak server and my fellow PUGS should be ashamed.

Much of the time lights will not run to the enemies rear in PUG matches at the beginning because they will be left to die by unreliable team mates. It is better to wait until most of the units are engaged and pinned to an area before engaging from behind when there is less chance of the entire enemy team turning to shred you while your backup is busy admiring the scenery.

Some however are more interested in padding there own stats to the teams detriment as you say.

Edited by Fiachdubh, 07 March 2013 - 09:00 AM.

[Xie Belvoule]

Agent of Change, on 07 March 2013 - 08:50 AM, said:

I got at least three problem with this:

1. I know several folks who are amazing players possibly among the best in game in their chosen chassis who pug and do so to massive effect. So the Choice to PUG doesn't = bad your assumption is a problem.

2. Attitudes and arrogance like this is part of why Premades are getting /have had a bad name. I personally think voip teams are how the game should be played, but that doesn't make the people who don't universally useless. Saying it does just makes things harder on the more reasonable of us.

3. Even money says you have been rolled by an all pug team on several occasions, you just probably assumed they were a pre-made. More to the point where do you think premade players come from, most will come from pugs at some point and if you are a **** about it they won't be part of your team.

but yeah keep ******* that chicken

L2Read bro, I got no problem with pugs, everyone starts as one, or knows some people who still pug. Hell I've played with and against good pugs. However as long as their is no in game voice, you will remain, as one person's sig puts it: "silent idiots alpha-striking their trial Assaults into hillsides"

[Kylere]

Fiachdubh, on 07 March 2013 - 08:58 AM, said:

Much of the time lights will not run to the enemies rear in PUG matches at the beginning because they will be left to die by unreliable team mates.

I get this, and I feel their pain. I just do not think they will get better at playing by shifting to a hide and wait mode.

Xie Belvoule, on 07 March 2013 - 08:59 AM, said:

L2Read bro, I got no problem with pugs, everyone starts as one, or knows some people who still pug. Hell I've played with and against good pugs. However as long as their is no in game voice, you will remain, as one person's sig puts it: "silent idiots alpha-striking their trial Assaults into hillsides"

I can see that Xie doesn't understand sarcasm anymore than he understands English. That explains why he cannot understand what anyone else is saying.

Edited by Kylere, 07 March 2013 - 09:04 AM.

[Agent of Change]

Xie Belvoule, on 07 March 2013 - 08:59 AM, said:

L2Read bro, I got no problem with pugs, everyone starts as one, or knows some people who still pug. Hell I've played with and against good pugs. However as long as their is no in game voice, you will remain, as one person's sig puts it: "silent idiots alpha-striking their trial Assaults into hillsides"

There is a magical chat function that allows you to use your keyboard to do waht many colloquially call "pug bossing" it can be quite effective.

I'm quite literate but you can feel free to point out where in your previous posts up until the quoted backslide you say or even imply you have "no problem with pugs" because, and i'm sure I'm not alone, up til now you seem to hold them with the same regard one might hold for a rotting corpse simply because they lack an in-game voip tool.

Edited by Agent of Change, 07 March 2013 - 09:06 AM.

[Xie Belvoule]

Agent of Change, on 07 March 2013 - 09:04 AM, said:

There is a magical chat function that allows you to use your keyboard to do waht many colloquially call "pug bossing" it can be quite effective.

I'm quite literate but you can feel free to point out where in your previous posts up until the quoted backslide you say or even imply you have "no problem with pugs" because, and i'm sure I'm not alone, up til now you seem to hold them with the same regard one might hold for a rotting corpse simply because they lack an in-game voip tool.

Where did I say that I hate pugs? I don't, however the OP called them cowards and insinuated it had something to do with stats. It doesn't have anything to do with stats, but with pugs not having the tools they need to create and implement a battle plan. I offered a reason for why people were behaving the way they were. He chose to believe them cowards, but they aren't. They just lack the in game tools to be an effective team, which renders them combat ineffective. They don't want to charge over the hill because they don't have anyone on voice chat saying their going to back them up.

Edited by Xie Belvoule, 07 March 2013 - 09:23 AM.

[Lohmis]

Kylere, on 07 March 2013 - 05:38 AM, said:

Okay, it is time to completely remove stats. Every PUG match I am in is becoming a game of "Wait until someone else engages so I do not die"

This was always an issue before but now it has grown dramatically worse. Atlai with ERPPCS playing sniper? Ravens that will not run into the enemy rear? Cataphacts thinking they are Catapults?

This is silly, the sheer cowardice is going to drive me to a teamspeak server and my fellow PUGS should be ashamed.

You must be dropping with a lot of Steiners. =)

[Agent of Change]

Xie Belvoule, on 07 March 2013 - 09:13 AM, said:

Where did I say that I hate pugs? I don't, however the OP called them cowards and insinuated it had something to do with stats. It doesn't have anything to do with stats, but with pugs not having the tools they need to create and implement a battle plan. I offered a reason for why people were behaving the way they were. He chose to believe them cowards, but they aren't. They just lack the in game tools to be an effective team, which renders them combat ineffective. They don't want to charge over the hill because they don't have anyone on voice chat saying their going to back them up.

Granted the in game typing is a poor substitute but it can work. And I totally disagree with the assumption that the OP made that they are all cowards or stat hunters, I equally disagree that pugs are all meat shields because they don't have voice. Sweeping statements without nuance just don't do it for me.

[Xie Belvoule]

Agent of Change, on 07 March 2013 - 09:18 AM, said:

Granted the in game typing is a poor substitute but it can work. And I totally disagree with the assumption that the OP made that they are all cowards or stat hunters, I equally disagree that pugs are all meat shields because they don't have voice. Sweeping statements without nuance just don't do it for me.

Fair enough, we largely agree then. I called them meat shields because I cannot count on them to do anything in a pinch other than soak damage. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. You can tell a pug to flank them at D5 but you can't make him listen.

[Agent of Change]

Xie Belvoule, on 07 March 2013 - 09:22 AM, said:

Fair enough, we largely agree then. I called them meat shields because I cannot count on them to do anything in a pinch other than soak damage. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. You can tell a pug to flank them at D5 but you can't make him listen.

which is why i don't pug, hell i might not have disagreed with you at all if you used the word "many" and softened the tone a little.