567 replies to this topic

[Krzysztof z Bagien]

ShadowSpirit, on 08 March 2013 - 10:52 AM, said:

Edit: New consumable idea - flares. Tactical use of flares will force people to change modes and possibly illuminate the battle field.

... and smoke granades too.
I'd make HV a little blurry or pixelated, but without cutting its range.

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

FINALLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


YES!!!!!

I. R. HAPPEH.

[DJO Maverick]

Looks great! Excited to see this one go live.

[Flapdrol]

Looking good, no more 100% thermal matches.

[Oy of MidWorld]

Looks amazing! I really also like the idea of the cockpit structure being unaffected by the effect at some later time.

Edited by Oy of MidWorld, 08 March 2013 - 04:26 PM.

[jackal40]

Such a shame - these "improved" night vision and thermal views make me think I'm back on an M60A3. That was over 20 years ago, surely the tech will improved between now and 3000 whatever when this takes place.

I believe you could do a lot better PGI!

[Tarman]

jackal40, on 08 March 2013 - 04:41 PM, said:

Such a shame - these "improved" night vision and thermal views make me think I'm back on an M60A3. That was over 20 years ago, surely the tech will improved between now and 3000 whatever when this takes place.

I believe you could do a lot better PGI!

Tarman, on 08 March 2013 - 10:59 AM, said:

Dude, this topic about future technology has been covered only about sixty billion times. Ingame, humanity warred itself literally almost into extinction across colonized space. Their technology base is super super spotty and still is full of stuff they can barely work, let alone replicate. There's a reason nobody attacks Jump Ships; nobody can MAKE them anymore.

History-wise, technology does not always magically progress into the future and get better all by itself. Doesn't happen like that. Ask Japan about crossbows, and how they let the tech fall into obscurity because it was imported and easily used by peasants. They ditched them basically because they weren't cool enough.

Outgame, IRL 21st century technology would make the game BORING BORING BORING. The IS could invade current Earth right now and we would wipe the floor with them. They'd be picked up by our far more advanced detection kit, have their own primitive detectors completely shut down by our EWAR, and get wiped out from hi-altitude bombing and guided ordnance from literally klicks away. Mech tech is highly outclassed by 21st century kit.

You made me have to quote myself. From the same thread. A couple pages ago. I wish I could just pin it somewhere for you "future=better" people.

[CDLord HHGD]

jackal40, on 08 March 2013 - 04:41 PM, said:

Such a shame - these "improved" night vision and thermal views make me think I'm back on an M60A3. That was over 20 years ago, surely the tech will improved between now and 3000 whatever when this takes place.

I believe you could do a lot better PGI!

It did improve.... Then it got nuked. And now it's slowly coming back! (Lostech)

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Lostech

[Sable Dove]

Looking forward to these changes. Would love to see theh Advanced Zoom module be a better sniper tool than thermal.

A nice touch I would like to see: At the start of the game, mechs are relatively cool, and will stay cool as long as they keep their heat down, meaning a mech that hasn't fired at all will be nearly invisible to thermal, while a brawler that's been in the thick of a fight will be quite visible from a long distance.

[Wolfgang Landsknecht]

Thontor, on 08 March 2013 - 03:17 PM, said:

you can still do that on most maps in normal vision. they just don't want thermal to be better for sniping than normal vision because that isn't what they intended thermal to be used for.

However, even the most basic consideration of the idea of steaming hot robots in a much colder environment would indicate that indeed heat vision would be THE tool of choice to detect enemies at any range.

And anyway, what WOULD they intend thermal view for, if not exactly that? Spot hot mechs in cold environments?

I consider it a bad idea. Thermal should be just as viable to snipe in as any other view. In fact, it *should* be better, unless the enemy is hiding in or behind a hot spot.

Tarman, on 08 March 2013 - 03:16 PM, said:

Realism + Battletech = No Giant Robots.

I disagree. The only thing that is unrealistic is that the robots never lie down to take cover. But anyway this is not the thread for that discussion.

Edited by Wolfgang Landsknecht, 08 March 2013 - 05:09 PM.

[Flapdrol]

Looking forward to these changes, the only (slight) reservation I have is that this is an indirect buff to ecm mechs.

[jackal40]

cdlord, on 08 March 2013 - 04:46 PM, said:

It did improve.... Then it got nuked. And now it's slowly coming back! (Lostech)

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Lostech

Well, I can't say I'm big on canon or related subjects. That being said, if a fusion engine is lostech - how do we even have mechs? Stick to your canon if you choose - then remove upgrades, addons, and customizable mechs. Make this game conform exactly to canon with no variations - if it didn't exist then (in some other canonical form of the game) then it doesn't exist now.

Sure won't make for a very interesting game, but then telling someone the night vision stinks because it's lostech has the same effect.
Amazing how 20th century tech looks better than in-game many, many, many years later.

And even beyond that, not everything is Lostech. Battlemechs were still being produced throughout each of the succession wars. Places like Hesperus II didn't stop production. Some sites lost, but not all. If we can make fusion engines with tech hundreds of years more advanced than today, then how would basic night vision and thermal be forgotten? The excuse of so much being Lostech doens't fit perfectly into canon. It's 3050. The NAIS has been in existance for 37 years. We have had the Helm Memory Core for 22 years. Even Sarna.net lists that within 10 years from now most of all the Lostech will have been recovered.

"It seemed as if LosTech could be overcome after all. By the 3060s, the Inner Sphere had re-established a technological knowledge base that approximated the technological state of the Star League era, with more than a few advances beyond what even the Star League had developed at its height."

Your excuse doesn't work anymore.

[Wolfgang Landsknecht]

Sable Dove, on 08 March 2013 - 04:53 PM, said:

Looking forward to these changes. Would love to see theh Advanced Zoom module be a better sniper tool than thermal.

Why not both? They are not mutually exclusive you know?
I do like the idea of cold mechs being harder to spot in thermal tho.

[ChargerIIC]

This ..looks really good. I didn't think I'd like a thermal nerf, but this looks well planned and reducing the bloom on night vision is something I've dearly wanted.

[Kolonel Matt]

jackal40, on 08 March 2013 - 05:07 PM, said:

Well, I can't say I'm big on canon or related subjects. That being said, if a fusion engine is lostech - how do we even have mechs? Stick to your canon if you choose - then remove upgrades, addons, and customizable mechs. Make this game conform exactly to canon with no variations - if it didn't exist then (in some other canonical form of the game) then it doesn't exist now. Sure won't make for a very interesting game, but then telling someone the night vision stinks because it's lostech has the same effect. Amazing how 20th century tech looks better than in-game many, many, many years later. And even beyond that, not everything is Lostech. Battlemechs were still being produced throughout each of the succession wars. Places like Hesperus II didn't stop production. Some sites lost, but not all. If we can make fusion engines with tech hundreds of years more advanced than today, then how would basic night vision and thermal be forgotten? The excuse of so much being Lostech doens't fit perfectly into canon. It's 3050. The NAIS has been in existance for 37 years. We have had the Helm Memory Core for 22 years. Even Sarna.net lists that within 10 years from now most of all the Lostech will have been recovered. "It seemed as if LosTech could be overcome after all. By the 3060s, the Inner Sphere had re-established a technological knowledge base that approximated the technological state of the Star League era, with more than a few advances beyond what even the Star League had developed at its height." Your excuse doesn't work anymore.

I agree with this. If we actually look at Lostech we will start to realize how much of it ISN'T Lostech anymore.

Gauss
ER PPC
ER Lasers
Pulse Lasers
Artemis FCS
XL Engines
ECM
NARC
BAP

And more. All these WERE Lostech. They are not now. Each year that passes in the game now leads to being closer to what humanity was at its height. Not much more than 10 years from now Lostech just becomes another term. It is even mentioned in one of the novels by Victor Davion that Lostech doesn't have the same meaning to him as he was born after most of the tech started to be rediscovered.

*Edited for my terrible spelling.

Edited by Kolonel Matt, 08 March 2013 - 05:34 PM.

[irony1999]

Seems this will further encourage close range engagements, which are favored already. So not happy about the implications in matches.

Mechs are big hot vehicles which should stick out on heat vision. They're barely noticeable in that screenshot. On a hot map it makes sense to mask them. But on every other map?

If you do take away heat as a good distance method, I hope you use a false color magnetic mode or some other visualization method that helps pick out mechs.

[Archinerd]

Love the direction you are taking this. Obviously still needs some tweaks but it's a great start.

[Panserbjorne]

Great improvement to night vision, but I'd rather keep thermal as is and just make night vision better, rather than nerfing one. I really like how thermal works aesthetically at the moment.

[Oy of MidWorld]

jackal40, on 08 March 2013 - 04:41 PM, said:

Such a shame - these "improved" night vision and thermal views make me think I'm back on an M60A3. That was over 20 years ago, surely the tech will improved between now and 3000 whatever when this takes place.

I believe you could do a lot better PGI!

I like the new down to base military utilitarian look of the vision modes. Lostech or no lostech, BattleTech is an eighties style game that has an eighties style sci-fi/fantasy feel to it. It just comes down to opinions. I feel this is a lot cooler than what we had before, and i endorse the intended gameplay changes.

They stated in ask the devs, that they are momentarily working on the hud to include more info. Hoping for a rougher military style look there too, cluttered with information (actual ambiance temp/core temp, immersive stuff like that).

Edited by Oy of MidWorld, 08 March 2013 - 06:45 PM.

[Damocles]

Quote

Also we will be masking out the Mechs cockpit from the effects at a later date.

Yesss! I've been asking for this since last summer.

Edited by Damocles, 08 March 2013 - 07:32 PM.