567 replies to this topic

[Kousagi]

I didn't read all 18 pages, so excuse me if this was said already.

One thing I have to say is with thermal view. It seems you guys are going with a white hot view or at the very least, a grey hot. So concern is, Why would river city night be so black? Urban area's retain heat well, so they should look more like what the alpine map does. Then with alpine, open terrain does not retain heat well, so it should be much darker. Though the sun does give off some heat, so with the day light it does brighten it, but with that kinda cold ya should dim it more. Then also, why is the mech way back there pretty much black, if you are going with a white hot system.

Though Other then getting thermal view to look right, its good changes.

[Koniving]

This has been what we wanted from the beginning. A night vision that actually reflects the "light." Glowing stuff that doesn't have light sources never made sense and has been the reason for our complaints for so very long.

In this video, I played with a basic hue cycling function. I especially like how night vision looked with orange. I'm certain they are no longer using green, since that shade has been abandoned from military applications since early 1990's.

http://www.youtube.c...u5-RDxDs#t=612s

Also for thermal. It looks better. But for the terrain. You guys released color maps of thermal zones for each released map so far. Why not use that thermal map for the levels? A plethora of color based on temperature that would indicate ambient temperatures. Thermal vision is meant to be thermal vision. But it depicts the ground as always being ice cold, especially with the new Caustic thermal map currently in play?

Edited by Koniving, 08 March 2013 - 07:58 PM.

[frag85]

The night vision looks great. For game mechanics that screen shot looks exactly how I would assume NV looks. Will intensity be adjustable? Or is it fixed?

I'll have to see the new thermals in action to really know if I'll like them but by just one screen shot I don't so far. Just 2 questions on the thermals.

Will the new Thermals be able to switch from white hot to black hot?
Will the new Thermals be able to have sensitivity adjustments?


As a firefighter that uses thermal cameras I like the blue-cold/red-hot thermal vision because it is similar to the new units we use and gives more detail for a better overall picture. The colored cameras also give you a temperature readout-though this would be useless in this game because the exact surface temp is not very important. The latest and greatest (and most expensive) hardware is colored like this.

Old hardware from 10 years ago is the black/white FLIR you see on military vehicles. I would think in the year 3050, if anything black/white would be a thousand years obsolete.

The colored thermal should have a more limited range (that is server side locked for fair play) if the reason for changing it to black/white is an attempt to balance the function of the device so people don't run it all the time.

Edited by frag85, 08 March 2013 - 09:27 PM.

[ZnSeventeen]

Looks cool to me, I like the black/white thing, and even more so the reduced bloom.
Just waiting on 360 degree view and magnetometers now.

[Synra]

For these two 'new' vision modes, I am not sure how I feel.

I will agree with the flaws in the current ones. However, the purely black and white heat vision looks pretty bad. I think the problem with current heat vision is not that enemies appear as blue/red blobs, but that the environment appears entirely grey scale at the same time. This makes those blue blobs stand out too much. You were on the right track with Caustic Valley's version of heat vision. The ground was colored as well. If you would just polish up that effect and make it work on all maps, that is what heat vision should be.

I mean really, I can't be the only one finding those screenshots absurd. All you are doing is turning an already black environment, into a very dark greyscale environment. That's stupid. I don't care if the mechs are a lighter grey and slightly more visible.

And besides all of that, what I REALLY want to know, is where the heck is the third vision mode, Magnetic vision? That was talked about a long time ago, but it seems like this is yet another thing that PGI has just ignored and forgotten about. If you are going to come here and make a post about 'new' vision modes, I expect to see Magnetic vision at the top of that list.

[redlance]

wow. good work guys! yay

[Edustaja]

Good changes. Makes thermal and NV useful but neither overbearing. Are we going to get the additional vision modes anytimes soon (mag-sensors etc.)?

[charov]

Nice changes indeed! Finally we are no more thermal-addicted

[WaddisznoHUN]

[color=#606A74]

Hi! I like him temporarily, but we'll see what will be like in the practice.

[/color]

[Atheus]

Here is my concern about reducing thermal effectiveness at long range:

In prior mechwarrior titles, you knew exactly what kind of environment you were headed to, and could choose your mech accordingly. If it was a cold map, you could count on that extra cooling for lasers. If it was hot, you could favor a gauss mech. If it was urban you could bring your short-range brawler. If it's open you would favor LRM's or long-range direct fire. With the random matchmaker, you wind up loading in with your pants down a good portion of the time if you have any mechs customized for a particular role. e.g. when you load into Alpine with your SRM/Medium Laser Stalker. Good luck!

By limiting view distance depending on weather and lighting, you're increasing the severity of the problem of launching the wrong mech for the map. What would be interesting is, say, if the matchmaker would make use of all these "variants" you are somewhat forced to buy. What if you simply chose "Atlas" while initially matchmaking, then after a match is made, you could see what map you were being sent to. With that information in mind, you could choose among your Atlas variants the best mech for the map. Then you needn't worry so much over getting screwed by the matchmaker running your fireball of a close-range laserboat on caustic valley where most engagements start at 500m.

This would have the added side-effect of encouraging people to buy more mechs, more engines, more modules, and adding to the tactical considerations of the game. It's win/win/win.

Edit: If you do implement something like this - heck even if you don't - reduce the price of modules! They're not realistic, funny, or nice. If people start needing multiple module sets, 6 mil for a module will just be considered criminal price-gouging.

Edited by Atheus, 09 March 2013 - 07:04 AM.

[Matthew Craig]

frag85, on 08 March 2013 - 09:26 PM, said:

The night vision looks great. For game mechanics that screen shot looks exactly how I would assume NV looks. Will intensity be adjustable? Or is it fixed?

I'll have to see the new thermals in action to really know if I'll like them but by just one screen shot I don't so far. Just 2 questions on the thermals.

Will the new Thermals be able to switch from white hot to black hot?
Will the new Thermals be able to have sensitivity adjustments?


As a firefighter that uses thermal cameras I like the blue-cold/red-hot thermal vision because it is similar to the new units we use and gives more detail for a better overall picture. The colored cameras also give you a temperature readout-though this would be useless in this game because the exact surface temp is not very important. The latest and greatest (and most expensive) hardware is colored like this.

Old hardware from 10 years ago is the black/white FLIR you see on military vehicles. I would think in the year 3050, if anything black/white would be a thousand years obsolete.

The colored thermal should have a more limited range (that is server side locked for fair play) if the reason for changing it to black/white is an attempt to balance the function of the device so people don't run it all the time.

Just to clarify my thinking here is to re-do a more advanced thermal as a new module, think of this thermal as the 'default' factory line standard which is also why it's important it has room for improvement. The goal is not for everything to be perfect off the assembly line same goes for night vision. There is no limit though really on what new vision modules we can add so by all means throw out ideas of what you'd like to see.

[MadSavage]

Matthew Craig, on 09 March 2013 - 07:58 AM, said:

Just to clarify my thinking here is to re-do a more advanced thermal as a new module, think of this thermal as the 'default' factory line standard which is also why it's important it has room for improvement. The goal is not for everything to be perfect off the assembly line same goes for night vision. There is no limit though really on what new vision modules we can add so by all means throw out ideas of what you'd like to see.

Wireframe.

[Oy of MidWorld]

Thontor, on 09 March 2013 - 08:10 AM, said:

maybe the clans will get something like that with enhanced imaging

Wireframe as clantech would make sense. Would be hard to balance, as it really takes away everything irrelevant to combat. EI was developed for Protomechs, and i sure hope they never touch those.

Edited by Oy of MidWorld, 09 March 2013 - 08:22 AM.

[Rashhaverak]

I'm somewhat disappointed that the cool factor of "Predator Vision" is going away... my 10 year old daughter came into the room once when I was playing and I switched to thermal. She gasped out loud and exclaimed that it looked just like the predator movie and it was "sooo cooool!"

Still, it is true that the color thermal vision mode is overpowered. I've used it even in broad daylight at 250m distance to better pick out friendly from enemy mechs, and nearly everyone trying to snipe uses thermal almost exclusively. This change looks to make thermal and night vision much more balanced. Maybe people will even quit hating on River City Night (it's one of my favorite maps).

Also, I love playing a scout, and the current thermal is the absolute bain to good scouting. The whole idea behind scouting is to be sneaky, obtain data and disrupt the enemy plan (and maybe throw a tag on a bad guy). Doesn't matter if you go with ECM or without, thermal picks you out no matter how careful your try. Sneaking behind enemy lines to throw a tag on someone? Thermal tells them your coming a mile away. These new changes should be great for the scouting element.

Can't decide for certain until we get to playtest the changes for ourselves, but these modifications to vision look like good directions to go in.

Edited by Rashhaverak, 09 March 2013 - 08:33 AM.

[Scumbag MadBro]

pretty big and, in my opinion, quite nice changes.
Night visions looks very, very good now! Thermal vision will not be first pick ... maybe even second or third, but we'll see on battlefield.

Thank you guys for tryin to balance the game more and more! You do a great job!

[zBaer]

I hoping some dev sees this.

I think that having the glass change instead of the whole screen on the vision modes would look bad ***.

I think the look and feel of the cockpit is lacking but if the different modes would only effect the glass itself and not the interior i.e. Pillars, pilot, dashboard.

[Almeras]

Matthew Craig, on 08 March 2013 - 10:52 AM, said:

Interesting but my first thought would be that if you now had Mechs both near and far that the smearing effect from the far ones would make the near information useless perhaps?

Near mechs would create no heat trail because the system could distinguish the hots spots better
Far mechs would be more cloudy and leave a heat trail.

My other idea is flares as a counter to heat vision when fired at another mech. Like MW4 when they stick on.

Oh and this would be OP but I sure do miss it from MW2 "Enhanced imaging engaged"

[Trev Firestorm]

Completely torn, on the one hand the gameplay improvements look good, on the other I've worked with thermal cameras (FLIR) for years and they still look wrong the thermals for the day environment look more correct (the night look terrible/inaccurate still) and the mechs, well, they would stick out bright as the sun (almost) no matter what you do IRL, its the entire reason it is such an amazing military tool... which is of course bad for gameplay

Edited by Trev Firestorm, 09 March 2013 - 11:45 AM.

[Wolfgang Landsknecht]

Trev Firestorm, on 09 March 2013 - 11:41 AM, said:

Completely torn, on the one hand the gameplay improvements look good, on the other I've worked with thermal cameras (FLIR) for years and they still look wrong the thermals for the day environment look more correct (the night look terrible/inaccurate still) and the mechs, well, they would stick out bright as the sun (almost) no matter what you do IRL, its the entire reason it is such an amazing military tool... which is of course bad for gameplay

No it is not bad for gameplay at all. Give us good IR optics at any range please! If you don't like the looks have a IR overlay for the real graphics, but do not take away the spotting ability from IR, please!

[Uberwilhelm]

Night vision looks good, thermal looks terrible. Leave the thermal as it is.