567 replies to this topic

[focuspark]

Generally looks good. +1 to the proposed change.

Can I recommend using sepia or orange color grade for Thermal view as opposed to gray-scale?

It's visually different from the green of Night Vision, and not as boring as gray-scale.

[Cicatrix]

The new updates look cool, cant wait to test them out.

[Suprentus]

CutterWolf, on 13 March 2013 - 08:42 AM, said:

That's nice and all but you forgot one thing. "If" indeed the cockpit windows did work as you describe then why could we not display the view from "anywhere" around our mech? Do you now see the can of worms your opening up? This would lead us right into, "why don't we have 3rd person views?" By making it something controlled by the neuro-helmet visor it makes LOS work.

I don't quite see the slippery slope argument you're describing. First off, how do you go from a special vision canopy to everyone QQing that there's no 3rd person view? Second, people already QQ about anything and everything. The entire forum is like 85% QQ. Really, even if people did jump to that conclusion, so what? Just let them QQ.

[Mr Everything]

As a Person who has used REAL Thermals and Night Vision, I like the changes back to reality.

Thermals in the grey scale is OK. its just the Way the Manufacturer of the Thermal sight wanted to display the Images, But as a Default color that enhances Game Balance I like it alot.
So you guys who shoot your ERPPCs from the spaceport to the docks can just stop now.

I have always used the Night Vision mode on night maps and if your going to reduce the blur then i Will Love it,,,, Good Job on this Issue,,,

[captaincabbage]

Oh man, these look brilliant!
I love the "proper" thermal vision mode, instead of the Predator-style heatmaps of the current version, it'll make you feel more like you're in a proper military engine, and the visual range nerf is great.

As for night-vision, I'm glad I'll actually be able to reliably see where I'm going on River City-Night! I'm not a big fan of thermal, so I generally destroy my eyes with the current high-bloom NV.

I'm super excited to see these implemented, with the modifications to the map thermal outputs adjusted.

[tuor1712]

I love the new optics. Can't wait to try them out for myself.

[Crockdaddy]

Talk about an understated yet likely very massive change. I have spent most of the last several months in thermal mode if for no other reason than so I can see the ECM cloaked mechs. This change has some very intriguing implications, especially for tourney drops. Most tourney drops are sniper oriented. Removing the glowing blobs will likely change this. While I snipe often, I brawl too ... so this change I think will be very welcome. Time and much QQ'ing will tell for sure though.

Mr Everything, on 13 March 2013 - 01:58 PM, said:

As a Person who has used REAL Thermals and Night Vision, I like the changes back to reality.

Thermals in the grey scale is OK. its just the Way the Manufacturer of the Thermal sight wanted to display the Images, But as a Default color that enhances Game Balance I like it alot.
So you guys who shoot your ERPPCs from the spaceport to the docks can just stop now.

I have always used the Night Vision mode on night maps and if your going to reduce the blur then i Will Love it,,,, Good Job on this Issue,,,

Honestly, we will still shoot our ERPPCs ... we are more often than not shooting to a spot where I think you will be based on experience rather than pure heat vision mode. Yes, the mode helped ... but after a while I knew pretty much where to shoot at right at start.

[Donas]

Love it.

[Gemeinagent]

Quote

Before you mention it we agree that there is still too much heat being shown from the environment for thermal;

Well, I always MISSED thermal info from the environment. I can accept that in the future insulation is way ahead of us, but do all houses have to be the temperature of the floor? I would like to see some variation, e.g. windows standing out in heatvision.

Having said that: How about a Magscan/Magnet Anomaly Detector mode? I am currently re-reading the Novels and they use MAD all the time. Not so helpful on night city, but volcanic maps would benefit from it (as Heat Vision has limited usefulness there), I guess.

[CutterWolf]

Suprentus, on 13 March 2013 - 12:44 PM, said:

I don't quite see the slippery slope argument you're describing. First off, how do you go from a special vision canopy to everyone QQing that there's no 3rd person view? Second, people already QQ about anything and everything. The entire forum is like 85% QQ. Really, even if people did jump to that conclusion, so what? Just let them QQ.

Quite easy, once you say the canopy is a special vision device it will take on the form of an LCD TV in the player base mind set. Which means, "why can't I display any view from around my mech?" (kiss LOS bye bye) The technology to turn your entire canopy into a special vision device would be a total waste of time, money and the technology it's self when the very same can be used to turn your "visor" into a special vision device so no mater where you look you would see in the selected mode. Take a look at the Cataplut and count up the number of windows it has and tell me why you think someone would ever waste that kind of tec, time and money for all those when they can apply it to just one small visor?

[INSEkT L0GIC]

One thing I'd like to see is my selected vision mode return to its previous setting when rebooting from overheating / repowering. Currently it reboots to normal vision regardless of what was set.

[Suprentus]

CutterWolf, on 14 March 2013 - 08:14 AM, said:

Quite easy, once you say the canopy is a special vision device it will take on the form of an LCD TV in the player base mind set.

Just because you jumped to that conclusion doesn't mean everyone else will. Besides, so what? There's an easy fix to that. Say "no, it isn't an LCD TV, you mental giants. This is the future!" Next, you're gonna tell me that the player base is going to assume that 'Mechs run on gasoline because that's what today's vehicles use.

CutterWolf, on 14 March 2013 - 08:14 AM, said:

Which means, "why can't I display any view from around my mech?" (kiss LOS bye bye) The technology to turn your entire canopy into a special vision device would be a total waste of time, money and the technology it's self when the very same can be used to turn your "visor" into a special vision device so no mater where you look you would see in the selected mode. Take a look at the Cataplut and count up the number of windows it has and tell me why you think someone would ever waste that kind of tec, time and money for all those when they can apply it to just one small visor?

I'm sure it would be small potatoes next to a fusion engine, life support, and sensors. Again, you're confining your thinking to today's sensibilities. Why would someone "waste tec, time and money" for power windows in a car when they can just apply them to a cheap hand crank?

Why wouldn't windows like these be cheap by the time that humans are a spacefaring race? LED TVs were super expensive when they first came out, and now prices are way more reasonable. Thontor already demonstrated a window that can do what I described.

Thontor, on 13 March 2013 - 12:51 PM, said:

Maybe its a transparent smart window, or something similar.

Above all else, you do realize that your entire argument is a logical fallacy, don't you? I pointed it out earlier, though I didn't come right out and identify it as a fallacy.

http://en.wikipedia..../Slippery_slope

Edited by Suprentus, 14 March 2013 - 08:35 AM.

[CutterWolf]

Suprentus, on 14 March 2013 - 08:33 AM, said:

Just because you jumped to that conclusion doesn't mean everyone else will. Besides, so what? There's an easy fix to that. Say "no, it isn't an LCD TV, you mental giants. This is the future!" Next, you're gonna tell me that the player base is going to assume that 'Mechs run on gasoline because that's what today's vehicles use.



I'm sure it would be small potatoes next to a fusion engine. Again, you're confining your thinking to today's sensibilities. Why wouldn't windows like these be cheap by the time that humans are a spacefaring race? LED TVs were super expensive when they first came out, and now prices are way more reasonable. Thontor already demonstrated a window that can do what I described.




Above all else, you do realize that your entire argument is a logical fallacy, don't you? I pointed it out earlier, though I didn't come right out and identify it as a fallacy.

http://en.wikipedia..../Slippery_slope

Wow, done with you now sense you lack common sense i.e. apply that tec to 12 windows or just one small visor for the VERY SAME EFFECT?

[Suprentus]

CutterWolf, on 14 March 2013 - 08:38 AM, said:

Wow, done with you now sense you lack common sense i.e. apply that tec to 12 windows or just one small visor for the VERY SAME EFFECT?

You have undoubtedly had the most irrelevant non-arguments I've ever come across in this forum. I find what you consider "common sense" highly questionable.

[Nacon]

Why not have two different thermal/night visions in combo where each are different to their own?
I've thought having options to use night vision or thermal was kinda silly when in the real world have technology that used both in one.



As you can see, this is night vision with low power thermal imaging camera in long wave IR sensor.


FLIR also have this edge highlights to break up the low-contract level.

And of course, a lot of people want to see the new thermal vision being like these.

Black is hot or reflection and white is cold or complete void of returns.
I think this might be more possible to pull off if the shader used the specular mapping for the black spots and using Ambient Occlusion to make the highlights around the object.

I kept trying to think of a new way to have different kind of vision based on magnetic or metalized radar/sonar kind of thing but I dunno. I should say... mess around and see what you can come up with!

I am kinda sick of seeing same old tech, just mix them up please.

[Woopass]

I love where this is going! I do like the night vision but even on river city night. Everything else is still too bright. And serving in the US military. we have some really great thermal vision tech. however nothing like what is current in MWO. I think the direction thermal is going is a great balance and also a door opener for better vision modules in the future. Keep it up! Me likey!!!

[Skyfaller]

I love the changes.

This solves basically all the color blind issues the game has in the different vision modes. Greyscale is universal.. color blind players see it perfectly. With heat being greyscale and Night vision using high contrast and no red/green/blue/yellow hues you solve the color blind clash perfectly.

Now all we need to do is wait and see how it actually plays out.

[UberFubarius]

Gemeinagent, on 14 March 2013 - 08:05 AM, said:

Well, I always MISSED thermal info from the environment. I can accept that in the future insulation is way ahead of us, but do all houses have to be the temperature of the floor? I would like to see some variation, e.g. windows standing out in heatvision.

If there's no one in the house (hence, no one using stuff that gives off heat), the house should be fairly indistinguishable from the ground itself. Obviously, there will be some differences since houses gain and lose heat from the environment at different rate from the ground.
Also, windows behaves like mirrors for thermal camera (glass behaves like mirrors for infrared red).

[UberFubarius]

CutterWolf, on 14 March 2013 - 08:14 AM, said:

Quite easy, once you say the canopy is a special vision device it will take on the form of an LCD TV in the player base mind set.

We have picture in picture zoom, it's not that far fetched.

CutterWolf, on 14 March 2013 - 08:14 AM, said:

Which means, "why can't I display any view from around my mech?" (kiss LOS bye bye)

I believe there are requests for a rear-view camera, since per lore mechwarriors have 360 view of the battlefield (although said lore might be a way to "simplify" the table-top game to not have to take into account mech viewing angles).

CutterWolf, on 14 March 2013 - 08:14 AM, said:

The technology to turn your entire canopy into a special vision device would be a total waste of time, money and the technology it's self when the very same can be used to turn your "visor" into a special vision device so no mater where you look you would see in the selected mode. Take a look at the Cataplut and count up the number of windows it has and tell me why you think someone would ever waste that kind of tec, time and money for all those when they can apply it to just one small visor?

I agree with the visor idea better. Given that, it's not that much of a stretch to argue that the visor can filter out cockpit internal elements (or display the needed information on the visor itself without subjecting them through the thermal/nightvision filter).

[Ghostbear Gurdel]

Having read the command chair post, i really like the way the vision modes will be changed. To me this looks to be a positive direction.