340 replies to this topic

[coolnames]

Terror Teddy, on 08 March 2013 - 02:48 PM, said:

What can I say, Im passionate about being able to go one on one with any armament as long as they do a balanced and fair amount of damage.

And I respect that!

[Terror Teddy]

coolnames, on 08 March 2013 - 02:50 PM, said:

And I respect that!

Didn't doubt you for a second.

We all tend to get...defensive on some issues.

I have to say though, it does take time to learn how to play certain chassis - and a spider is not a brawler but I think it should be able to have the firepower to stand up to a commando who has more firepower.

I think that's the part that bugs me the most. Not to mention that there is no OTHER viable ballistic weapon between 0,5 tonnes and 6 tonnes.

Edited by Terror Teddy, 08 March 2013 - 03:14 PM.

[One Medic Army]

Terror Teddy, on 08 March 2013 - 03:14 PM, said:

I think that's the part that bugs me the most. Not to mention that there is no OTHER viable ballistic weapon between 0,5 tonnes and 6 tonnes.

This is pretty much the crux of the issue.
Since we have several light chassis that have only 5-6 hardpoints, with between 2-4 of those being ballistic, the inability to mount more than 1 of any ballistic that qualifies as a primary weapon makes those chassis as a whole inferior, it essentially says: you will boat MGs and as much laser as you can fit, or you will have empty hardpoints.

The fact that there's no ballistic that gets "Primary armament" status under 6 tons is why people want the MG to be worth as a primary weapons system.

Heck, if they were willing to add another light ballistic weapon I'd be fine leaving MGs as crit-seekers than 99% of the game's players never touch.

[Terror Teddy]

MG's POSSIBLE damage output DO scare me though.

The Piranha has 12MG's

You emty 2000 rounds in 16 seconds so that's a DPS of 5 - equivalent of the AC/20
You'll most likely spread it around but say we DO get a mech with 8-12 slots.

I'd love the Jagermech to have 6 per arm and 4 chest energy backup slots.

I'd be boating MG's for lulz and probably have to carry 8 tonnes of ammo just to not run out.

[Sifright]

GameGenie, on 07 March 2013 - 06:17 PM, said:

MG builds work. Just cause you want 4xAc/2 @ no weight doesn't mean MGs are bad. Nothing is as good at destroying weapons on a de-armored target than MGs- If you don't understand why that's good, then I understand why you won't use them.

No i don't understand why thats good.

my 4 laser 2 SRM4 jenner can pump 50 damage out in a salvo to an unarmed section with pinpoint precision.

I'd like you to explain to me how many mechs will even have a component section after that salvo, never mind just blowing up some guns.

Pure damage is better in every single way.

could even switch that out to 4 small lasers but what ever.

Gremlich Johns, on 07 March 2013 - 06:53 PM, said:

Machineguns have never been intended as an armor defeating weapon - anti-infantry and anti materiel (like trucks and jeeps, etc, not something as massive as a mech) You are seeking a low weight, low/no heat way to destroy mechs. Play like the rest of us. Frankly, without elementals/battle armor or in-game infantry, there really is no need for MGs.

wrong.

next.

[liku]

Test and Agreed!
i try combing with a raven 4x and Dragon 5 N

i could disarm so quickly ennemymech, you just to have to aim, it's so nice..

[ShadowDarter]

Had a four MG Spider try this one me, CT cored him...

and he had only 4 MG,s..

[Sifright]

coolnames, on 08 March 2013 - 11:56 AM, said:

Bro, those mechs are not terrible. Maybe your perceived performance when playing them is, but that does not mean that other players cannot do well with them. Sure there could be better loadouts and variants, but there are viable strategies when playing them.

public elo would totally put this to rest.

You are arguing scrub tier levels of play as a totally rad and fine thing to do.

glad to see you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

[Fulkren]

as the two men stated in the video, its an excellent weapon for a fast mech to use in a "team Effort" with another Player(s). from multiple battles ive played, it is often that you will see (after some time) mechs with their armor taken off, a smart Light Mech player could run in and take out their internal weapons. obviously this approach will work great against certain mechs (like ones without arms).

its certainly is a tactic, maybe not for everyone. but i could see it being useful in the right loadouts, and with the right team work.

[coolnames]

Sifright, on 08 March 2013 - 03:44 PM, said:

No i don't understand why thats good.

my 4 laser 2 SRM4 jenner can pump 50 damage out in a salvo to an unarmed section with pinpoint precision.

I'd like you to explain to me how many mechs will even have a component section after that salvo, never mind just blowing up some guns.

Pure damage is better in every single way.

could even switch that out to 4 small lasers but what ever.

Open your mind....

There is more to this game than Alpha Strike damage and dueling against a single mech.

I hear ya. You like your Jenner...I like your Jenner too. I played Jenners a ton in Closed Beta and they are great. Never was it said that, overall, MGs are better than any other loadout....just that they are really damn good at destroying exposed components.

Have you tried incorporating MGs into any of your other mechs? If you have and still feel the way you feel, then I am sorry they didn't work out for you

Sifright, on 08 March 2013 - 04:00 PM, said:

public elo would totally put this to rest.

You are arguing scrub tier levels of play as a totally rad and fine thing to do.

glad to see you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

No need to BM, bro bro. But, thanks for your opinion.

[Hedonism Robot]

I watched your video, but I think you are just trying to theory craft machine guns into sounding decent. In real application they are absolutely terrible weapons. You might be able to strip off a component or two but if you pitted a 2v2 with one dps and one supporting light using machine guns against a similar set heavy with a light using medium lasers I guarantee you which combo is gonna come out on top. I liked how you took an objective and intelligent view in your video, but as someone who has tried using these and seen them in action I know that they are still fail.

[Sifright]

Fulkren, on 08 March 2013 - 04:00 PM, said:

as the two men stated in the video, its an excellent weapon for a fast mech to use in a "team Effort" with another Player(s). from multiple battles ive played, it is often that you will see (after some time) mechs with their armor taken off, a smart Light Mech player could run in and take out their internal weapons. obviously this approach will work great against certain mechs (like ones without arms).

its certainly is a tactic, maybe not for everyone. but i could see it being useful in the right loadouts, and with the right team work.

except in every circumstance you are better off having more damage so you outright blow the section off.

compare the spider 5D vs the 5K

the 5D fitting 3 MPL

vs the 5K with 4 mgs MG ammo and 1 MPL.

in time it takes for the 5K to strip armour and then remove the weapons the 5D will have blown the entire section off.

in the case of that section being a side torso getting a kill or if the enemy fits a std engine tearing the arm off.

[Psikez]

I just came by to reiterate MGs are bad and you should still feel bad, thx.

[Sifright]

coolnames, on 08 March 2013 - 04:04 PM, said:

Open your mind....

There is more to this game than Alpha Strike damage and dueling against a single mech.

I hear ya. You like your Jenner...I like your Jenner too. I played Jenners a ton in Closed Beta and they are great. Never was it said that, overall, MGs are better than any other loadout....just that they are really damn good at destroying exposed components.

Have you tried incorporating MGs into any of your other mechs? If you have and still feel the way you feel, then I am sorry they didn't work out for you




No need to BM, bro bro. But, thanks for your opinion.

Team situations make the disparity between mgs and other weapons even worse.

for every mech on my team that uses mgs the enemy has a mech fitting lasers or missiles that actually strip armour rapidly and do exactly the same damage to components and internal structure.

Damage beats out crit ability every time.

edit: Mgs do strip weapons from an exposed section fast but only if the section is already stripped of armour no one is disagreeing with you about that specifically.

The issue is that their performance is so subpar outside of that criterion that the crit buff is functionally meaningless.

Edited by Sifright, 08 March 2013 - 04:15 PM.

[coolnames]

Hedonism Robot, on 08 March 2013 - 04:05 PM, said:

I watched your video, but I think you are just trying to theory craft machine guns into sounding decent. In real application they are absolutely terrible weapons. You might be able to strip off a component or two but if you pitted a 2v2 with one dps and one supporting light using machine guns against a similar set heavy with a light using medium lasers I guarantee you which combo is gonna come out on top. I liked how you took an objective and intelligent view in your video, but as someone who has tried using these and seen them in action I know that they are still fail.

I would argue you are theory crafting as well with your example!

You can throw out 'what if's nonstop...but the real fun is deciding how to adapt in a match!

Sorry they didn't work for you.

Psikez, on 08 March 2013 - 04:13 PM, said:

I just came by to reiterate MGs are bad and you should still feel bad, thx.

I don't feel bad, but I am starting to get feels for you bro.

[Psikez]

If you do not see the why MGs are bad then I guess there is nothing more I can say or show you to help you understand the non-viability of MGs.

[Blark]

Imho, mg's are still pretty crappy (which is sad, because I really really want them to be useful).

They would be useful as crit weapons if they had some more range, but as it is now they are not only pretty much useless against armor, but you also have to hug your enemy in order to use them in an effort to destroy internals (and keep in mind that engines cannot be destroyed by crits).

[Jman5]

Keep in mind that I'm still experimenting with the machine gun. I think it's a complicated weapon that has more advantages than it seems.

One thing I find compelling about the machine gun is versus the assault mechs which have a lot of internal hitpoints. If you know the variant's hardpoints, you can gimp it in a surprisingly efficient manner. For example: An Atlas D-DC who has lost his torso armor still has 42 hitpoints to eat through. If you can get just a few second burst from a quad machine gun you could disable 3 SRM 6s, or an AC/20. Suddenly, the big bad atlas is nearly completely neutered.

It's a strategic scalpel that seems nice in certain scenarios where something is too beefy to just lop an arm off in one alpha strike.

Anyway, I'm not convinced it's good, but I'm not convinced that it's as terrible as some people claim. I'll continue working on it to see if it's just a high learning curve weapon. At the very least it will help me learn the variant weapon hardpoints better.

Edited by Jman5, 08 March 2013 - 04:35 PM.

[liku]

I would gladly encourage those that are sceptical to give it one more try!
As everybody i was thinking that was a hoax (like for flamers), but i wanted to have some fun with my lovely 4X. Then i discovered they were right.

There is NO WAY you could do more damage to component with a ml than a MG, it can blow weapons in seconds.
You schould try for yourself, sometime it's faster to disarm and more effective than actually destroying the emplacement holding the weapons... and at almost 0 heat cost!

My best setting is my splach cat hunter, a fast 5N with 2ERPPC and 3 GM, i just let them harmless then switch to another target


---edit---
you can shot a unharmored spot with Mg while aiming for CT with other weapons, you just have to train, while cooling down and disarming them not wasting heat for bodyparts!

--second edit ---
look like weapon descrtuction dont count toward damage.

--last edit--

dont use it ever, i think if everybody start to use is the way it's meant... they will start screaming for the nerf bat!
Actually i find i a little OP, you can disarm so fast any mechs... i want to enjoy it a bit more!

for those who tried, let's make the "like it" up the roof!

Edited by liku, 08 March 2013 - 05:39 PM.

[coolnames]

liku, on 08 March 2013 - 04:42 PM, said:

--last edit--

dont use it ever, i think if everybody start to use is the way it's meant... they will start screaming for the nerf bat!
Actually i find i a little OP, you can disarm so fast any mechs... i want to enjoy it a bit more!

for those who tried, let's make the "like it" up the roof!

Lol, thanks for your feedback! Glad you are having fun