187 replies to this topic

[Ialti]

TexAss, on 09 March 2013 - 07:04 AM, said:

I don't know what the solution for this is.

Double armor points again? This would certainly lead to more balance problems.
Or just make them "soak up" more damage than now?
Double Structure Points?
I don't know, I just can say (and I know its not only my opinion) that the game is getting too fast and nothing we have planned for the future counters that.

MadSavage, on 09 March 2013 - 07:11 AM, said:

No...just no. If anything they NEED TO HALF THE ARMOR.

TexAss, on 09 March 2013 - 07:11 AM, said:

For what? To insta-kill everyone?

Go back to COD.

[Itka]

They didn't really double armour though. Or well technically they did but since they increased the damage a lot it doesn't matter.

In the tabletop game a PPC with perfect accuracy does 1DPS, in MWO a PPC with perfect accuracy does 3.3DPS, add to that that long range shots at standing targets is much easier in MWO than in tabletop.

Already we have shortened fight time by more than half.

[Mister Haha]

Battles have gotten shorter and more predictable. Definitely not a step in the right direction.

I disagree with armor being doubled, but I wouldn't disagree with a boost to cores. I think it's just a symptom of the overall problem:

At one point 'sniping' was more or less LRM. A cornered sniper is never in an ideal situation, so LRMs work as expected. Perfect! This is how most games handle sniping and it seems to work out.

Now, a cornered sniper with ERPPC / Gauss, etc. does just as much damage cornered as they do full range, and they aren't really at any disadvantage. In fact, for those approaching, they are almost at the disadvantage since all that firepower is more likely to hit. This is where the 'problem' crops up, more or less. There's no real disadvantage to a pinpoint longrange build as long as the pilot can aim and build their mech with decent heat.

Since SRM has been nerfed enough to make the benefit of carrying your ordinance up to them almost silly, the whole interaction with 'snipers' breaks.

For anyone just saying that the OP isn't skilled and that's why he's pointing this out, shame on you. There is a clear imbalance going on here in terms of roles. If you were here for a while you might see there has been a breakdown along the way. I'm fully expecting SRM getting its damage boosted in one way or another as a pretty good fix, but not the best fix.

Long range weaponry should have disadvantages up close. 90 meters for PPC is a good start, but that's basically make-out range. Should start to suffer at 150-200.

Edited by Mister Haha, 17 April 2013 - 12:47 PM.

[ArmageddonKnight]

You cant just double armor again for all mechs.
Even now, with the current double armor, the problem im about to explain ..is present.

If you double armor again for all mechs, the per hit damage of certain weapons that should rip through certain smaller/light armoed mechs, say a Slow moving projectile like AC20 vs a Raven, will be so low that the faster mechs will become impossible to kill, as u will have to hit them alot more to kill them, and lets face it, hitting them is hard.

If armor was 'normal', as in not how it is now, then a AC20 or Dual AC20 or guasses hitting a light mech would blow it apart, much like in the BT lore, however with the current double armor, that doesnt happen, yes they get major damage, but u still have to hit them a couple times. Doubleing armor again would make fast mechs way to OP.

A better idea would be to increase armor for assualts by say 50%, heavies' by 25%, mediums by 10% and light by 0%. It would also be a good idea to have weight affect speed. So if u have a 50 ton mech and choose to use only 45tonns, then u are faster, but if u use all 50 tonns ..u r slower, also they should make it that Armor, although lighter than most equipment..should have a larger affect on speed than other stuff per point of weight..as more armor = thicker armor = more bulky and less easy to move.

Doing this depending on the numbers that r used, 'should' make current light mechs slower, forcing them to lower armor closer to that prior to the current double armor, and/or lower weapon loadout, but still alow the current fast speeds, and make current Assualt mechs even slower also.
However, even though slower Assualt/heavy mechs sound horrible.. if said Assualt mech got a bead on a light mech with less armor on it, then said light mech should be getitng damaged much more than now. So no more " yay i finaly hit that fast sh*t with my Ac20/guass ..oh wait ..it barely made a dent ..got do that a coupel more times...nvm im dead"

Anyway its kinda hard for me to explain all my ideas somtimes but i hope i got the point across. The idea is to widen the gap between weight classes.

It would help even out the playing field and allow longer battles. Light mechs would need to rely more on skill and manuvering over pure speed and the knowledge that they can currently take a few hits from these masive guns. And Larger mechs can brawl for longer periods and use more tactics without fear of being swarmed but may well be slower.

[Bishop Steiner]

Ansel, on 17 April 2013 - 12:29 PM, said:

Problem solved, unless a shot is placed close enough to overlap into an already damaged area it will always hit fresh armor.

Would love to actually see a full armor and crit map but am thinking the amount of resources it would eat would push the game even further away from most peoples systems. That said, I would love it. It would also mean that with luck or careful aim, on could exploit already weakened armor spots or holes.

[Jess Hazen]

MadSavage, on 09 March 2013 - 07:11 AM, said:

No...just no. If anything they NEED TO HALF THE ARMOR.

Agreed I think that they should revert armour back to normal TT armour.

[MadSavage]

Honestly the way it is now...as a hunchback with an ac20, you have no chance in hell against an atlas. At least with half armor values, an alpha strike from you can do modest damage against him. Either way the atlas can still kill you in a couple of alphas, but with half armor, you'd be given a fighting chance as a lighter asset.

Suddenly getting hit mid-jump as a jump sniper would really hurt you! There would be great risk in every decision you make! What a radical idea! Instead now it's stack up behind buildings and whoever has the most focus fire wins. If that's what the devs want, then so be it, but I wouldn't mind seeing a game once in a while cater to a more professional audience.

Edited by MadSavage, 17 April 2013 - 01:08 PM.

[Jess Hazen]

First they should triple the armor points per ton, and triple the damage of all weapons.

Then they should quarter the speed of everything so nothing can move fast and quadruple gravity so nobody can leave the ground.

And then they should remove bases so you can't be caped out.

Finally they should remove the game timer so that the game lasts until all mechs are destroyed.

Only then will the game will be playable again.

[Nothing Whatsoever]

I'd like to see three things tried:

1). Increasing Internal HP to at least equal current potential Armor counts for Mech sections (so for example, if that Left Torso on that Atlas you are shooting has 68 front armor, you still need to bust through 84 HP to knock out that section completely),



2). bring back R&R (if want to use larger punishing weapons, why not make them cost more to maintain like we had before?).



3). and play around with cooldown rates related to damage output (maybe some fair and universal DPS calculation?). My first guess is use a 10 DPS value over 10 seconds to create the variable cooldown values. But again this needs to be fair and universal to only control very high bursts of damage within short periods of time.

I figure that a better value can be found based on actual numbers found in actual gameplay. So that the current Weapon cooldowns are as short as the weapon cooldowns will be, and as we deal more and more damage in a short amount of time, the cooldown increases to compensate.

This way, any mechs firing more than one weapon for a high burst of damage per trigger pull would have a variably increasing cooldown the more often they let off a high burst of damage.

So, for example, if you decide to fire all four PPCs on your Stalker for 40 damage, not only does your heat go up as we have, but the mech could take longer and longer to fire that next 40 point strike and so on, based against that universal DPS cap calculation.

Or if you are rocking two AC20's, the first Alpha of 40 damage fires as normal, but if you keep firing both, the cooldown keeps increasing for followup shots.

Or that Atlas fires off its AC20, SRMS and Lasers for 48 damage, the increased cooldown would apply for the following shots.

So continuing with the idea, if that same 4PPC Stalker goes to firing one PPC at a time then the cooldown between shots then goes closer to the baseline cooldown for PPCs, with the variable cooldown only affecting high bursts of damage. The same goes for the two AC20's if smaller weapons are being used in between AC20 shots, the variable cooldown rate would decrease back down towards the default weapon cooldowns over time.



Right now, where we have mechs that can easily dish out ~45 to 80 damage within an 8 second window can really make matchs rather short. And with good teams that coordinate well to strike the enemy down one mech at a time, matches can get even shorter and more lopsided. I hope I'm making sense, as I'm sharing this idea for cooldowns.

[Screech]

If people want more armor, instead of increasing armor values just allow more armor to be placed on the mechs. If you want better protection will cost you in tonnage. Maybe throw in a cap penalty for going over the normal limit.

[KingCobra]

Lets just get it out in the open (THE WEAPONS FAR OVERPOWER THE ARMOR AND INTERNALS) after playing Mechwarrior4 Mercinaries again tonight me and a pilot played mediums and we only died a average of 5 times in 30 minutes and each time one of us died we still had weapons left.To me MWO is nothing more than driving a paper turtle.The battles are so short it sucks and its not a matter of pilot skill anymore as much as crowd control.

Edited by KingCobra, 17 April 2013 - 03:01 PM.

[IraqiWalker]

Guys, honestly, what are you thinking. Most of you aren't even complaining about the armor, you're complaining about light mechs being too much of a problem. Well, if you're going with a stupid 2AC20s build don't expect to hit them.

The problem we're facing is that matches are lasting 5 minutes tops. I've been in only 3 matches that lasted over 10 minutes, and those were two 8 man comps fighting each other.

You want the games to last longer, increase the core hp of the skeleton structure. of course, there should be some difference between using endo-steel versus standard internal structures. That would be something to tweak.

Do not mess with the armor values right now, this will take too long and too much effort.

Also, if the problem for you is boating or light mechs, get a team. Boats are free lunchables to organized groups. I've had no issues crunching every boat in the game easily.

If we work with internal structures and tweak them, machine guns will actually be a more viable weapon to consider on mechs. Since we will be able to use them more effectively for more than 2 seconds.

[DegeneratePervert]

I think Ferro-Fibrous armor and Endo-Steel should actually DO something beyond saving weight. Ferro Fibrous armor should increase the strength of existing armor by 20 points on each section, enough to survive an additional AC/20 hit. Endo-steel should give a damage resistance of 10%, but should not protect weapons. This would make Endo-Steel a slight boon to players, but since most have them anyway, it won't change the game much. However, Ferro-Fibrous would suddenly become very attractive to most players.

Just my thoughts.

[Zolaz]

This is why the Inner Sphere won vs the Clans. The Clans fight one versus one. The Inner Sphere knows that you jump on a dude with both feet and kill him. If you get targeted by more than 1 person your match is going to go quick.

People will die even faster when the game goes 12v12.

[bigdaddynash]

All this ranting about poptarts, energy boats, evil alphas and more armour needed is symptomatic of__________ UNFINISHED GAME! Wait for missles to be fixed and you'll see the FOTM fade like the rest of those FOTMs. the jenners lagshield, the streakcat plague the ecm atlas ravens the splatcats etc etc etc. all those are irrelevant now and todays whine will be the same. Wait for lrms/srms fixed up, like erppcs, then lasers and now ballistics... there will be a time where balanced play shall commence.

Just everyone hold the horses on this whinge fest on fast predictable gaming cause another month it will all be different... AGAIN!

[ego1607]

MadSavage, on 17 April 2013 - 01:06 PM, said:

Honestly the way it is now...as a hunchback with an ac20, you have no chance in hell against an atlas. At least with half armor values, an alpha strike from you can do modest damage against him. Either way the atlas can still kill you in a couple of alphas, but with half armor, you'd be given a fighting chance as a lighter asset.

Suddenly getting hit mid-jump as a jump sniper would really hurt you! There would be great risk in every decision you make! What a radical idea! Instead now it's stack up behind buildings and whoever has the most focus fire wins. If that's what the devs want, then so be it, but I wouldn't mind seeing a game once in a while cater to a more professional audience.

Well, if you go against an atlas in a hunchie, you SHOULD die. It's a 50 ton lighter mech. It's just rediculous seing atlases drop like flies after just a couple of hits, and everything else fall apart as soon as the battle starts.

Maybe armor should be adjusted, mybe weapons should be nerfed, but something should be done to prolong skirmishes.

[Roadbuster]

While I'd like longer fights I see quite a few problems if armor would be increased.

- if one team lost 2-3 mechs it would be alot harder for the remaining to bring down the other team
- light mechs would have a very hard time killing anything while
- mechs would have a very hard time killing light mechs
- to get rid of the increased ammount of armor, people might play even more high alpha builds
- ammunition per ton would require a buff

[Blackfire1]

I'd rather they remove conversion on torso weapons. Forcing the player to take skill in reference to where the weapon is located on their mech. Not only adding another layer to learn, But you'll be able to tell the good pilots from the great one.

personally I think they would "solve" alot of problems with boating simply because it'll cause problems for those who want to one hit alphas.

Being able to control the "focus" point would be nice too. In the Swayback for instance focusing the tordo lasers to max range. Anything past they spread and anything too close they spread.

[Treckin]

Yes to this, OP should be a poll.

Whoops, never mind - I often forget that I have zero respect for or faith in this communities democratic will.

[Liberator]

Fights last a short time because people are impatient and rush out, in world of tanks people get punished instantly if they rush out, and learn to be careful because it is so obvious they just failed. The speed and resiliency of the mechs allows them to go out and brawl without that feeling of failure, even if they DID fail as pilots!