149 replies to this topic

[Darkfire66]

If you are not balancing the need to defend your base, attack their base, and kill as many enemies as possible, you are a bad player.

[Thirdstar]

Darkfire66, on 11 March 2013 - 11:07 PM, said:

If you are not balancing the need to defend your base, attack their base, and kill as many enemies as possible, you are a bad player.

If you say so.

[Karyudo ds]

Critical Fumble, on 11 March 2013 - 09:46 PM, said:

How do you suggest keeping anything beyond the most efficient gunboats and damage sponges viable in a TDM style mode?

In MW4 lights were still very useful. You didn't have bases to cap and you had larger (Alpine or maybe bigger) sized maps so you really only had a vague clue where you enemy was at any given moment. A couple scouts made finding them easier and if done well you could sneak up on them... plus moving quickly did make them a pain to hit at times.

In fact that's my only big complaint with base capture in MWO. Having two plots of land that win the game by standing in them takes a lot of the fun out of hunting and to a degree that makes everything that isn't directly between the bases worthless. Alpine could make a fun hide-n-seek but there's really not much logic to running along the sides unless you can jump to ludicrous speed.

[Darkfire66]

When it comes time to killing though, a light will get outgunned by an atlas. So in a deathmatch that is costing points.

I would love to see an "Honor Duel" arena, symmetrical cover inside of a giant dome. I don't think king of the hill is a bad idea either, although that is obviously a death sentence to anyone trying to cap it...

Thirdstar, on 11 March 2013 - 11:09 PM, said:

If you say so.

Pretty much. Nothing wrong with just playing for fun. But games also need to be balanced top down from the best players.

SouthernRex, on 11 March 2013 - 02:24 PM, said:

No.

You are wrong, sir.

Google says that is what tactics are.

[Thirdstar]

Darkfire66, on 11 March 2013 - 11:17 PM, said:

Pretty much. Nothing wrong with just playing for fun. But games also need to be balanced top down from the best players.

PUGland will never, ever be balanced for the 'best players'.

You should be playing in say RHOD or even 8 manz, if you want serious business play.

[Darkfire66]

• 
  

  Thirdstar, on 11 March 2013 - 11:22 PM, said:

  
  PUGland will never, ever be balanced for the 'best players'.
  
  You should be playing in say RHOD or even 8 manz, if you want serious business play.
  
  
  
  It has to be. All game balance needs to be tuned around top level play. I normally run in at least a 4 man group. I do pug, mainly to grind out masteries on new frames. ELO will eventually segregate better players up anyway.
  
  I imagine that means I probably won't be seeing you in game.
  
  = (

[Thirdstar]

Darkfire66, on 11 March 2013 - 11:28 PM, said:

I imagine that means I probably won't be seeing you in game.

You're about as good at trolling as you are at making coherent arguments.

Seriously dude, quit while you're ahead.

[and zero]

Darkfire. We played a game earlier tonight. My team took a tactical position and prepared for combat. Your team base rushed. On our way back we asked your team to stop. You were rude and said something about us being pissed about losing. We killed about 5-6 of your team then lost to cap. Why do you fail to understand that it is not about losing or winning. If we had a game mode with a legitimate, tactically interesting capture objective myself and many others would enjoy the added depth and participate in that part of the mode. As it is now many of us consider it a massive waste if time when someone caps for no reason other than to cap(not to split up the enemy etc). Just because the screen says 'you win' that does not make you a winner. Tell me, with the way assault is right now, do you feel.like a winner when you capture a base without a shot being fired in the first minute or two of the game? Because i do not feel as though that is a victory on any level. And i play to win always. I always want a challenging, fair game. This was on my phone so please forgive any typos/rambling. Its very hard to type on these forums on it.

[Darkfire66]

Thirdstar, on 11 March 2013 - 11:31 PM, said:

You're about as good at trolling as you are at making coherent arguments.

Seriously dude, quit while you're ahead.

I keep telling you to enjoy the game as you like. I've had a little trouble understanding some of your sentence structure so I pretty much just started ignoring what you are saying and assumed that since you are bad at this game, your opinion is irrelevant. Also, just saw you in another thread saying that you saw someone with a bad build in game and told them to change it.

So...is it everyone have fun, or just you?

TLDR: Bad players opinions don't count.

[Thomas McRiley]

In my opinion the available game modes have nothing in common with strategy and mechwarrior.

You need a mode like conquest, but not for capping "points". You should have tactical advantages through capping obstacles.

For example different obstacles to cap, different tactical advantages:

Airfield: when capped and held for 1 minute, teamcommander can airstrike a location 200x200 m on minimap

Radar array: when capped and held for 2 minutes, all enemies locations are revealed on minimap through satellite in orbit

Mech repair facility: when capped and held for 5 minutes, all friendly units are repaired by 5%

Trainstation: when capped and held for 3 minutes, the train there equipped with long tom artillery may fire once on a location within 2 km


Just examples. You imagine what I meen.
Through obstacles giving tactical advantages ingame, people want to cap them. Youn don't stick together with 8 / 12 mechs and killrush the enemy. People need to build lances and WANT to cap these things and hold / defend them. The game is not over by capping bases, but give tactical abilities. Game time should be longer, maybe 30 minutes.

That is what I miss at the moment.

[Thirdstar]

Darkfire66, on 11 March 2013 - 11:37 PM, said:

I keep telling you to enjoy the game as you like. I've had a little trouble understanding some of your sentence structure so I pretty much just started ignoring what you are saying and assumed that since you are bad at this game, your opinion is irrelevant. Also, just saw you in another thread saying that you saw someone with a bad build in game and told them to change it.

So...is it everyone have fun, or just you?

TLDR: Bad players opinions don't count.

Still pretty terrible. 1/10 would not read again. Please improve.

[Darkfire66]

and zero, on 11 March 2013 - 11:36 PM, said:

Darkfire. We played a game earlier tonight. My team took a tactical position and prepared for combat. Your team base rushed. On our way back we asked your team to stop. You were rude and said something about us being pissed about losing. We killed about 5-6 of your team then lost to cap. Why do you fail to understand that it is not about losing or winning. If we had a game mode with a legitimate, tactically interesting capture objective myself and many others would enjoy the added depth and participate in that part of the mode. As it is now many of us consider it a massive waste if time when someone caps for no reason other than to cap(not to split up the enemy etc). Just because the screen says 'you win' that does not make you a winner. Tell me, with the way assault is right now, do you feel.like a winner when you capture a base without a shot being fired in the first minute or two of the game? Because i do not feel as though that is a victory on any level. And i play to win always. I always want a challenging, fair game. This was on my phone so please forgive any typos/rambling. Its very hard to type on these forums on it.

So, when you get on the upper city and camp, unless people come straight at you, you will lose to cap. I don't want to have games where we will have to make that choice. Given an option, I will always fight. I want cbills.

I don't want to have games with people camping for 20 minutes. If your team wanted a fight, should have either stayed on your base (if camping is really your thing) or come to ours. It's an assault on an objective. I started capping hoping someone would come to fight me, and no one did.

and zero, on 11 March 2013 - 11:36 PM, said:

just because you win, doesn't mean you win

Actually, it does.

Also, the player on your team started with the QQ and rudeness and I responded. I am always gracious and humble otherwise.

Thirdstar, on 11 March 2013 - 11:40 PM, said:

Still pretty terrible. 1/10 would not read again. Please improve.

Feel free to ignore my posts. If you have something to contribute to the discussion, feel free to do so. Otherwise, there are plenty of other threads for you to browse.

[Thirdstar]

Darkfire66, on 11 March 2013 - 11:43 PM, said:

I am always gracious and humble otherwise.

[Darkfire66]

Thomas McRiley, on 11 March 2013 - 11:39 PM, said:

In my opinion the available game modes have nothing in common with strategy and mechwarrior.

You need a mode like conquest, but not for capping "points". You should have tactical advantages through capping obstacles.

For example different obstacles to cap, different tactical advantages:

Airfield: when capped and held for 1 minute, teamcommander can airstrike a location 200x200 m on minimap

Radar array: when capped and held for 2 minutes, all enemies locations are revealed on minimap through satellite in orbit

Mech repair facility: when capped and held for 5 minutes, all friendly units are repaired by 5%

Trainstation: when capped and held for 3 minutes, the train there equipped with long tom artillery may fire once on a location within 2 km


Just examples. You imagine what I meen.
Through obstacles giving tactical advantages ingame, people want to cap them. Youn don't stick together with 8 / 12 mechs and killrush the enemy. People need to build lances and WANT to cap these things and hold / defend them. The game is not over by capping bases, but give tactical abilities. Game time should be longer, maybe 30 minutes.

That is what I miss at the moment.

Cool idea.

You could refill your coolant flush = )

Would be much more fun with 12 vs. 12.

[and zero]

Darkfire66, on 11 March 2013 - 11:43 PM, said:

So, when you get on the upper city and camp, unless people come straight at you, you will lose to cap. I don't want to have games where we will have to make that choice. Given an option, I will always fight. I want cbills.

I don't want to have games with people camping for 20 minutes. If your team wanted a fight, should have either stayed on your base (if camping is really your thing) or come to ours. It's an assault on an objective. I started capping hoping someone would come to fight me, and no one did..

We were close to the middle of the map looking for your team man. We were not camping at all. Also it was alpine. So no upper city?

You are missing the point man. Example: streak raven 3l vs spider. Or you/me vs. A brand new player. The game says we won. But i dont feel like a winner for stomping someone with no skill etc etc. See what i mean?

Edited by and zero, 12 March 2013 - 11:28 AM.

[Critical Fumble]

Karyudo ds, on 11 March 2013 - 11:09 PM, said:

In MW4 lights were still very useful. You didn't have bases to cap and you had larger (Alpine or maybe bigger) sized maps so you really only had a vague clue where you enemy was at any given moment. A couple scouts made finding them easier and if done well you could sneak up on them... plus moving quickly did make them a pain to hit at times.

In fact that's my only big complaint with base capture in MWO. Having two plots of land that win the game by standing in them takes a lot of the fun out of hunting and to a degree that makes everything that isn't directly between the bases worthless. Alpine could make a fun hide-n-seek but there's really not much logic to running along the sides unless you can jump to ludicrous speed.

Understand that I'm a bit biased - as a Cicada pilot for the most part. I've gotten the hang of most fast mech techniques, and they can be dangerous, but there's no way in hell that a light or medium mech could be equal to an assault in direct combat (unless the light/med is "cheating" in some capacity or the assault is gimped). And, if we're taking TDM, you can fudge scouting with some clever movement and JJs. Both teams want to engage, "hiding" is only useful in the context of sneak attacks, and if you over invest in scouts, you're at a disadvantage. Granted, some modifications to the matchmaking could make it work well - namely tonnage matching, IE: 2 HBK = 1 Atlas.

Thirdstar, on 11 March 2013 - 10:35 PM, said:

Well for a start I'd like it if the capture bar resets quickly if the enemy mechs moves off of the redsquare. Next, the capture module needs to go. Either that or the multiplicative effect needs to go. 4 lights, all with cap module is just wrong.

ECM is a whole other can of worms that I don't want to go into here.

Edit: perhaps even add a feature from World of Tanks. If the capturing mechs take damage, the capture bar resets. Lets face it, it ridiculously easy to cap, compared to how hard it is to kill all 8 of the enemy team. Shouldn't both objectives require equivalent amounts of work?

The cap accelerator IS a bit insane. Might as well have a DPS accelerator. See also, http://mwomercs.com/...36#entry1649236

Darkfire66, on 11 March 2013 - 11:37 PM, said:

TLDR: Bad players opinions don't count.

Welcome to Tryhard: Online.

[Harmin]

It seems that the ability to end the game by capping the base is not a mere hinderance to enjoyable game it is absolutely essential !

Why?

Because without it there'd be no need to even remotely develop any kind of tactics facility in those "go kill" lizard brains.

The fault for a loss does not lie with the winning team for having a light mech capping the base. It lies with the losing team for failing to assign an appropriate base defense while they wandered off.

[Fooooo]

As a rabid RTS player and Total War player, (haven't played shogun 2 yet, but have all the other Total Wars )

I agree with the OP's point.

That if you leave something open you are supposed to defend , and then the other team happens to notice and take advantage of that, you cannot blame anyone but yourself.

I don't call foul in SC when I leave an early expansion open to attack (no real units nearby) and lose all my harvy's, same if I don't scout an important route. Its the same in a 2v2 / 3v3 if we all leave an important point open, its our own fault for not scouting it etc and getting suprised.


All that said, I think the speed at which the cap completes in assault should maybe be higher the more mechs that are still alive on the enemy side etc.....

At least until we get 12v12, in which it will at least be somewhat viable to leave a lance there while pubbing........somewhat.......people would have to agree on the plan etc .........

That or change assault into 1 side attacks, the other defends, the attacking side must cap and hold at least 2 of the enemy points to win when the match timer runs out. They can win before that by holding all caps for 2 mins or killing everyone or something.....

Each point should have a proper looking base around it with walls (that can be destroyed also I guess), gates etc etc.....

Edited by Fooooo, 12 March 2013 - 12:00 AM.

[Darkfire66]

Critical Fumble, on 11 March 2013 - 11:53 PM, said:

Welcome to Tryhard: Online.

To clarify: People that can barely play the game shouldn't offer opinions on game balance.

[Darkfire66]

and zero, on 11 March 2013 - 11:52 PM, said:

We were close to the middle of the map looking for your team man. We were not camping at all. Also it was alpine. So no upper city?

You are missing the point man. Example: streak raven 3l vs spider. Or you/me vs. A brand new player. The game says we won. But i dont feel like a winner for stomping someone with no skill etc etc. See what i mean? Sorry about the format my phone wont let me select it. Going to bed. Will edit tom.

Ah, different map. I was thinking of another group. I don't disagree with your point. Don't recall the match, as I elited out 3 trenchbuckets today. I don't recall you. But I never taunt or anything unless someone else made a comment first, so while I will say that I am sorry of calling you a basecamper, I don't feel bad about rubbing a win in someone's face after they call me out.