390 replies to this topic

[Acenan]

Astroniomix, on 11 March 2013 - 11:46 PM, said:

They are a bit more accurate as well.

i am ruuning an Atlas d-dc with 3 Srm4 + artimes, its like having 2 AC/20s..

[Bayamon]

I dont understand how some builds here would be considered bad.

Most of my mechs dont use all their hardpoints and i rather take an extra heatsink than an extra laser JUST because it fits.
To me being able to fire continously for longer periods is more important than having as many weapons as possible and only being able to Alpha once and then wait to cool off or use only small weapons until.

Ok..an Atlas with just one laser or 4 MPLs is a bit too heat efficient maybe...

But some other builds posted here can actually make sense..of course you can never know exactly what they pack(armour, heatsinks etc).

[Lord Ikka]

A K2 with 2 TAG, 2 Med pulse, and 2 Machine guns. Have no idea what the hell you are supposed to kill with that, and the dual TAG is just useless.

[Shadowsword8]

I saw an heavy mech armed wiht only a large laser and a LBX-10.

The worst was that when I started explaining why the LBX was a terrible weapon, the others on the team supported him. Maybe they tought each pellet was doing 15 damage, or something.

[Ramrod]

Bayamon, on 12 March 2013 - 02:12 AM, said:

I dont understand how some builds here would be considered bad.

Most of my mechs dont use all their hardpoints and i rather take an extra heatsink than an extra laser JUST because it fits.
To me being able to fire continously for longer periods is more important than having as many weapons as possible and only being able to Alpha once and then wait to cool off or use only small weapons until.

Ok..an Atlas with just one laser or 4 MPLs is a bit too heat efficient maybe...

But some other builds posted here can actually make sense..of course you can never know exactly what they pack(armour, heatsinks etc).

An Atlas with four medium pulse lasers is outgunned, outranged and outrun by a stock Hunchback 4G. Heat efficiency doesn't really matter if you're an assault doing the damage of a light mech.

As for not knowing what a mech is packing, you can make educated guesses. Calling back to my post, I saw a Cicada 3M with an AC/20, (that means no XL engine). Without making too many assumptions, let's take the stock 3M with only the included DHS upgrade, and no changes to armour. I postulated 70km/h, so here I will indeed assume a STD175 (which is easily possible, could have been pulled out of a Commando).

This looks about right.

This mech is a short-ranged glass cannon which is easy to catch because of its relative slowness, easy to hit because of its size, and easy to kill because of its low armour. It doesn't really fill any need in any role, and was far outgunned by my stock Hunchback 4SP, nearly triple the alpha damage (although to be fair, it was his bad luck that I was able to strike him several times before he had the chance to outrun me). This is a pretty bad mech.

Nevertheless, you may have missed the point. I don't think the arguments here are against builds that don't use all hardpoints, but rather use few hardpoints on piddly weapons relative to the mech's size. Or a schizophrenic mix of mismatched weapons across poorly-thought-out hardpoints. Or, as with my example, one giant weapon that is way too big for the mech to employ usefully.

Edited by Ramrod, 12 March 2013 - 04:05 AM.

[Mr 144]

Made it on a dare Very expensive dare...notice the FF armor and command console, lulz. Tonnage i light 'cause I only have a 350 in it...it can take a 360 to achieve 'ludicrous' speed. My apologies to anyone stuck with me in the match I ran it

Mr 144

Edited by Mr 144, 12 March 2013 - 02:47 AM.

[KharnZor]

Mr Mantis, on 11 March 2013 - 11:38 PM, said:

Back before the ecm days i made a raven that had the speed of a heavy and stuffed with and lrm20. Funny thing is that it worked rather well, i got 3 or 4 kills per match. Now that lrms are somewhat good again (with the upgrade) it might be fun to play with.

Malora Sidewinder, on 11 March 2013 - 11:54 PM, said:

earlier today i had the misfortune of being teamed up with a raven 3l with NO ECM, and only a tag and an LRM20.

lol

[Sifright]

SpiralRazor, on 11 March 2013 - 11:36 PM, said:

4s are legit actually.....less heat = more sustained, slightly less burst.

WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG.

SRM 2, 5 Damage 2 heat =0.4 Heat per damage

SRM 4 10 Damage 3 heat. = 0.3 Heat per Damage

SRM 6, 15 Damage 4 Heat. = 0.266666 Heat per Damage.

Srm6 does the most damage with most heat efficiency the only down side is a slight drop firing speed.

SRM6 is the better weapon for heat by a large margin and switching to SRM4 drops sustained DPS.

Edited by Sifright, 12 March 2013 - 04:08 AM.

[Aim64C]

I ran across a Raven in one match, a moon or two ago, that had, if I remember correctly, 2 ERPPCs... and ran a mere 50 KPH, or something.

It gets points for being unexpected... but I don't recall it being very effective... especially considering a salvo of LRMs opened him up like a can of tuna.

[Elepole]

I was about to say:"Any mech without ECM" buuut,

i prefer to say any build using flamer or mg seriously.

[skelley92]

Atlas with 4 MG and enough ammo to fire continuously for the first 3 minutes of the match, which he did.

[Skaroth]

riTk0MA, on 11 March 2013 - 11:09 PM, said:

This weekend I dropped with a 16-player syncdrop in a spider with just a TAG.
I was rearming the spider when I was told to get ready, so I closed the Mechlab and forgot to reselect my normal mech.
To make things worse, I ended up the last player alive on my team.

Of course you were the last alive. A spider with only a tag draws zero aggro.

[Skaroth]

Bayamon, on 12 March 2013 - 02:12 AM, said:

I dont understand how some builds here would be considered bad.

Most of my mechs dont use all their hardpoints and i rather take an extra heatsink than an extra laser JUST because it fits.
To me being able to fire continously for longer periods is more important than having as many weapons as possible and only being able to Alpha once and then wait to cool off or use only small weapons until.

Ok..an Atlas with just one laser or 4 MPLs is a bit too heat efficient maybe...

But some other builds posted here can actually make sense..of course you can never know exactly what they pack(armour, heatsinks etc).

What you say is true to an extent. My Awesome 9M has three erppcs and a ton of double HS. It does really well (when I am not laggin... f'n ISP ). Had a guy on my team ***** me out because of my loadout... That game I was top of the leader board in kills and damage... He said that didn't matter, my build was crappy. Lol, needless to say I never grouped with that guy again.

Many of these builds are just plain bad though. Heat efficiency is important but there is a balance and some of these are just bad. I think the DDC's that run machine guns win worst build, personally.

[Yokaiko]

Acenan, on 12 March 2013 - 02:09 AM, said:

i am ruuning an Atlas d-dc with 3 Srm4 + artimes, its like having 2 AC/20s..

You can run x3 srm 6+artemis on a D-DC, with the 20.

[Ramrod]

skelley92, on 12 March 2013 - 04:47 AM, said:

Atlas with 4 MG and enough ammo to fire continuously for the first 3 minutes of the match, which he did.

There's a hole in your story.

Edited by Ramrod, 12 March 2013 - 05:18 AM.

[Lorcan Lladd]

I once spectated a Catapult with four LRM5 launchers and Artemis IV FCS - I'm not sure if it was an A1 or C4, however, or whether it had any secondary weapon systems, but the pilot claimed to be a 'fast LRM boat' at the beginning of the match.
I guess that build had a large Standard Engine and it probably hadn't been upgraded with Endo Steel or Double Heat Sinks yet - or maybe it just had full leg armor and a lot of ammunition.

Very strange.

Also an Atlas with two ERPPCs and absolutely no other weapons; it could have been any variant, probably equipped with a large engine and full of heat sinks.
I guess that loadout might make sense for a smaller 'Mech if you're short on Energy hardpoints, but...

[Esplodin]

GalaxyBluestar, on 11 March 2013 - 11:22 PM, said:

so long as training grounds doesn't match the latency and has an enemy that stands still it is no true test of a good build, just target practice and heat /ammo management. effecient at fighting is a different story...

I'm using it currently to practice cockpit shots at speed and airborne. Sure they aren't moving, but it is easier to work out proper angles and fire timing without incoming fire. I mean nobody shoots back at the firing range for realism.

[CheezPanther]

ragingmunkyz, on 11 March 2013 - 10:16 PM, said:

Saw a splatcat full of SRM4's today...I can't even begin to imagine how he couldn't find the extra tons to upgrade them to SRM6's.

If HE just bought the thing and doesn't have wads of cash laying around, then not really surprising. You just dont realize how many tons of ammo 6 SRM6's can go thru and how fast they can do it. Ammo takes up quite a share of weight on those things. quite comparable to some builds using LRM's.. 8 tons of srm ammo will only give u 22 full salvos of 6xSRM6.. now if he had 2 LRM 20's that same ammo tonnage would be 1440 LRM's and would yield 36 full salvos...

DHS 1.5mil + new sinks... Endo 850k... 6xSRM6 is 960k 6xSRM4 720k... Theres some cash to throw down just setting it up.. thats not even if u wanna throw an xl on and run artemis..

SRM4's are actually doable until u get the cash for DHS and endo.. But as u start Adding SRM6's u have to toss on more and more ammo..

[Sifright]

only reason to go SRM4 is for artemis in which case you are better off going 4 srm6 + arty net saving of two tonnes. if you do that build better to go C4 and stick to 2ML in with your saved tonnage.

[Banzi Jo]

JujuShinobi, on 11 March 2013 - 10:32 PM, said:

having multiple LRM 5 is not really a bad build. Heat output is lower and higher rate of fire. Had a match with a Cat A1 6 LRM 5 and 1004 damage. And I don't understand what is wrong with having four LLs or less.

A spider which ditched all armor and put on an LBX while trying to snipe with it. Also a Raven 4X with one Large Pulse Laser and nothing else but JJs

i understand your liking of lrm5's. My favorite cat-A1 build to run pugs is a 6x ALRM5 xl300 DHS jj's and lots of ammo
i like it cause i chainfire and can almost constantly screen shake any target under 1000m, Pretty hard to hit a 80kph cat running sideways(and jumping intermittenly) at 240m when your shaking to all hell from justone of the 5lrms getting thru your ams. its also used well to make average snipers hide(smart ones take the dmg and shoot me back) . I can dumb fire lrm5's in chain to rain the entire crater rim in a few secopnds and hold the enemy snipers back. PUGS are fun.