170 replies to this topic

[NKAc Street]

Fut, on 13 March 2013 - 10:58 AM, said:

Sorry, Man. Not sure if it's because I'm distracted or not (currently at work), but I fail to see how you addressed the issue of whether or not testing weapon damage in the Testing Grounds vs a Live Game is more accurate....

I only said in game experiences are different then testing grounds, and am going by general observation of what people are experiencing in the game that I talk with. I never claimed it was more accurate, so you must be distracted at work.

[NKAc Street]

Thontor, on 13 March 2013 - 11:05 AM, said:

No need for speculation, we know the reason they were changed



The intention wasn't to buff them, even if that was the result.... Its not Thomas's job to make weapon balance changes... He simply fixed a mechanic that could be exploited and looked ugly to him.


If that buffed LRMs to the point where they are too strong now, then I assume Paul, or aomeone whos job it is to balance weapons, will adjust the damage accordingly.

So the bug fix also decreased travel time as a result?

[Rebas Kradd]

I'm all about compensating using tactics rather than nerfs, but I'll say this much - when the opponent has 4-5 LRM boats and about 800m of wide-open territory stand between you and them, cover isn't going to help you - because there isn't any. I can't dodge and weave between buildings that aren't there. A lot of maps allow this problem. Even on River City, LRM squads can protect themselves by standing in open water and focusing on any brawler that tries to close. It does make them vulnerable to direct-fire snipers, though.

Edited by Rebas Kradd, 13 March 2013 - 11:10 AM.

[FrDrake]

Rebas Kradd, on 13 March 2013 - 11:10 AM, said:

I'm all about compensating using tactics rather than nerfs, but I'll say this much - when the opponent has 4-5 LRM boats and about 800m of wide-open territory stand between you and them, cover isn't going to help you - because there isn't any. I can't dodge and weave between buildings that aren't there. A lot of maps allow this problem. Even on River City, LRM squads can protect themselves by standing in open water and focusing on any brawler that tries to close. It does make them vulnerable to direct-fire snipers, though.

Anyone who isn't trolling knows brawlers are countered by LRMs, just as snipers/lights counter LRMs in the open. If you don't want to fight them in the open, go take their base .

Rocks papers and scissors

[Baltasar]

Rebas Kradd, on 13 March 2013 - 11:10 AM, said:

I'm all about compensating using tactics rather than nerfs, but I'll say this much - when the opponent has 4-5 LRM boats and about 800m of wide-open territory stand between you and them, cover isn't going to help you - because there isn't any. I can't dodge and weave between buildings that aren't there. A lot of maps allow this problem. Even on River City, LRM squads can protect themselves by standing in open water and focusing on any brawler that tries to close. It does make them vulnerable to direct-fire snipers, though.

Also, lrms in the water can't fire effectively onto their base. There is a couple of good hiding spots from LRMs you can stand while capping.

[NKAc Street]

Thontor, on 13 March 2013 - 11:09 AM, said:

no

Travel time did not change

LRM speed is still 100 m/s, unchanged.

I apologize, since I thought I had read where travel time was decreased. A lot to read around here so i was mistaken.

Edited by NKAc Street, 13 March 2013 - 11:20 AM.

[Foust]

Rebas Kradd, on 13 March 2013 - 11:10 AM, said:

I'm all about compensating using tactics rather than nerfs, but I'll say this much - when the opponent has 4-5 LRM boats and about 800m of wide-open territory stand between you and them, cover isn't going to help you - because there isn't any. I can't dodge and weave between buildings that aren't there. A lot of maps allow this problem. Even on River City, LRM squads can protect themselves by standing in open water and focusing on any brawler that tries to close. It does make them vulnerable to direct-fire snipers, though.

That is really more of a symptom of a random map selection, with random team mates with random load outs. If you get dropped on alpine, with all brawlers against the fabled 4-5 LRM boat team...well sorry about your luck. Best try to use those hills and valleys, and good luck to you. Hope someone brought a PPC or two.

Again though, Alpine is a large contributor to the resurgence of LRM's. "Overspecialize and you breed in weakness".

[FrDrake]

Just as shoddy of odds are when you are dropped against 3 lights in Alpine when your lowest tonnage is a Hunch/Cent.

Some matches are matchmaker handed losses. Accept them and move on to the other 97% of matches that are perfectly winnable.

Note* 97% is based on the last 100 games since stat tracking went in, as I've only felt 3 of them were really skewed beyond my ability to win.

Another note* If you stand on the opposite side of the base oil derrick from the LRM boat, you have 100% cover from his LRMs. I have never had a single LRM hit me through that base thing. Some people will shoot lasers at your feet and that works though.

[Vidiot]

Don't have have ECM as the hard counter for an LRM boat that finds amazing ground with no covered approach. Just walk right up.

If 3 or 4 people on the enemy team are boating LRMs that just means that as long as our team can hold cover or ECM at any given point we have pretty much removed 3 or 4 mechs from the enemy team.

Now if a team has a strong LRM presence while running counter jamming and trying to draw a team out in the open? That just sounds like good combine arms. Their ECM counter should be easy to take out while counter jamming. If they have someone to jam while another counter jams and they boat LRMs they have wasted too many mechs on one tactic and should pretty much get rolled by a good team.

[MischiefSC]

What really works is having the LRM boats sit about 200m from each other. You show up to attack one and the other rains death on you.

[FrDrake]

MischiefSC, on 13 March 2013 - 11:42 AM, said:

What really works is having the LRM boats sit about 200m from each other. You show up to attack one and the other rains death on you.

Depending on their manueverability use the enemy LRM boat as a mech sized LRM shield.Doesn't always work but when it does it's totally hillarious.

[Vidiot]

FrDrake, on 13 March 2013 - 11:44 AM, said:

Depending on their manueverability use the enemy LRM boat as a mech sized LRM shield.Doesn't always work but when it does it's totally hillarious.

I love when I can do that.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Rebas Kradd, on 13 March 2013 - 11:10 AM, said:

I'm all about compensating using tactics rather than nerfs, but I'll say this much - when the opponent has 4-5 LRM boats and about 800m of wide-open territory stand between you and them, cover isn't going to help you - because there isn't any. I can't dodge and weave between buildings that aren't there. A lot of maps allow this problem. Even on River City, LRM squads can protect themselves by standing in open water and focusing on any brawler that tries to close. It does make them vulnerable to direct-fire snipers, though.

Where is this happening to you? 800M of open space with no way to get to them?

There might be 2 or 3 spots in all of the maps minus Alpine where this could happen. And they are all negated by the fact that you just need to run right into their base and cap it.

If you go to them and get rained on that's just straight up dumb.

[Baltasar]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 13 March 2013 - 11:56 AM, said:

Where is this happening to you? 800M of open space with no way to get to them?

There might be 2 or 3 spots in all of the maps minus Alpine where this could happen. And they are all negated by the fact that you just need to run right into their base and cap it.

If you go to them and get rained on that's just straight up dumb.

(insert proper cap rage thread here. take your pick there's like 6 of them atm)

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Baltasar, on 13 March 2013 - 12:02 PM, said:

(insert proper cap rage thread here. take your pick there's like 6 of them atm)

If a team wants to go to some random corner of a map so their LRM boats can shoot freely at anyone who comes near them, then they deserve to get capped.

That is just silly.

[Baltasar]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 13 March 2013 - 12:05 PM, said:

If a team wants to go to some random corner of a map so their LRM boats can shoot freely at anyone who comes near them, then they deserve to get capped.

That is just silly.

lol agreed

[Angus McBeef]

I've witnessed LRM boats on my team literally walk to a spot, stand still, and spam fire for most of the match because the enemy just ignores them. Personally, as a fast medium/light pilot, I love harassing LRM-only mechs. Their friends frequently don't even help them, so I often get a solo kill out of the deal. LRMs are 'easy mode' when the enemy is a bunch of ignorant dinks, not because of how LRMs work.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Angus McBeef, on 13 March 2013 - 12:36 PM, said:

I've witnessed LRM boats on my team literally walk to a spot, stand still, and spam fire for most of the match because the enemy just ignores them. Personally, as a fast medium/light pilot, I love harassing LRM-only mechs. Their friends frequently don't even help them, so I often get a solo kill out of the deal. LRMs are 'easy mode' when the enemy is a bunch of ignorant dinks, not because of how LRMs work.

Yup, but you know it reallys comes down to ignoring anyone.

You ignore the 6 PPC stalker?

Or the 2 PPC 1 Gauss cata?

You are going to get blown the f up.

[topgun505]

I find it kind of funny that Lurm players always complain about only 30% or so of their volleys are hitting targets when it typically only takes just TWO volleys of A-LRM-15s to completely destroy a fresh heavy mech or anything smaller. You can have more than 2 volleys in the air before the first one even impacts. If the LRMs spread out over the target a lot more like they are supposed to then yes I could see why they might be frustrated. But when 4 LRM-15s (or their equivalent) is essentially pretty much a ONE-SHOT-KILL ... then 30% accuracy is plenty high enough.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

topgun505, on 13 March 2013 - 01:01 PM, said:

I find it kind of funny that Lurm players always complain about only 30% or so of their volleys are hitting targets when it typically only takes just TWO volleys of A-LRM-15s to completely destroy a fresh heavy mech or anything smaller. You can have more than 2 volleys in the air before the first one even impacts. If the LRMs spread out over the target a lot more like they are supposed to then yes I could see why they might be frustrated. But when 4 LRM-15s (or their equivalent) is essentially pretty much a ONE-SHOT-KILL ... then 30% accuracy is plenty high enough.

Sorry, so are you saying if someone is standing still my Centurion should be able to shoot 2 volley's and kill them? Because that sure as **** doesn't happen.