170 replies to this topic

[FrDrake]

So i finally understand why so many people say LRMs are OP.

Was in a match yesterday in Forest Colony, a few enemies are spotted near the boat so my PUGball wades it's way over to the boat and gets an early kill. Then a larger brawl ensues as the enemy engages us in the boat area. I see an enemy get 2 kills back to back and notice that it's an LRM stalker over on the shoreline shooting into the brawl. I run over and get behind him and start to attack his back (I'm in a Treb 7M, 100 KPH, 2MLAS, 3 SSRM, 1 PPC). This stalker has 2xLRM20, 2xLRM15 and TAG, and that's it. Absolutely no point defense weapons and is entirely at my mercy as my streaks spray across his entire back sections and don't just hit one so I can't focus my fire too well.

In any case, I have all his back armor off and am getting to orange internals when a Raven 3L and a cataphract come to his rescue (maybe on voice comms, maybe just smart players don't know), in any case I can't sit on his rump anymore after they take my arm off, part of the Treb's survivability is speed and I'm a sitting duck working on this guy's rear internals.

The stalker was a good player too, after figuring out he wasn't going to shake me, he made swinging movements but went back to work destroying my allies who were still circle strafing the enemy brawlers in the middle of open terrain. In the end I was 2nd to last to die on my team after the 3L finally chased me down (I had used terrain to lose the phract but didn't have enough armor left to brawl the raven as my PPC was gone and my streaks were then useless, just had the MLAS).

And then 3 of my teammates just start QQing about how OP LRMs were, they couldn't believe how strong etc. etc.

I told my team that the LRM boat had no backup weapons and was a sitting duck if any of them had helped me he would have been out of the game with no problems. If they wanted to run in circles in the middle of open terrain and not kill the LRM guy then it was their fault. No one responded but it struck me that these are the types of people who come here and complain about LRMs, instead of just adjusting their tactics to the situation at hand.

[Syllogy]

Unfortunately, people forget that the best defense against LRM's is Intelligent Use of Cover.

Judging from my accuracy with LRM's, and the accuracy of many of the people I play with, I'd say that LRM's across the board average about 35% hit rate.

I would also wager that the LRM's are balanced based on that hit %

If one allows an entire volley to hit them, they are allowing a HUGE amount of damage to rain down....

It's a not fault in Game Balance, it's a fault in Piloting.

Edited by Syllogy, 13 March 2013 - 07:21 AM.

[Tabrias07]

This is why I start every game by trying to identify LRM boats. You have to take them out first.

[MustrumRidcully]

I think intelligent use of cover against LRMs also includes using that cover to get within his minimum range. As long as you don't do that, you will have to be continually watchful that you don't expose yourself, and you just won't manage to do that if your enemy is engaging you in a brawl. So carry the fight to them!

[Marduk Moreau]

FrDrake, on 13 March 2013 - 07:16 AM, said:

So i finally understand why so many people say LRMs are OP.

Was in a match yesterday in Forest Colony, a few enemies are spotted near the boat so my PUGball wades it's way over to the boat and gets an early kill. Then a larger brawl ensues as the enemy engages us in the boat area. I see an enemy get 2 kills back to back and notice that it's an LRM stalker over on the shoreline shooting into the brawl. I run over and get behind him and start to attack his back (I'm in a Treb 7M, 100 KPH, 2MLAS, 3 SSRM, 1 PPC). This stalker has 2xLRM20, 2xLRM15 and TAG, and that's it. Absolutely no point defense weapons and is entirely at my mercy as my streaks spray across his entire back sections and don't just hit one so I can't focus my fire too well.

In any case, I have all his back armor off and am getting to orange internals when a Raven 3L and a cataphract come to his rescue (maybe on voice comms, maybe just smart players don't know), in any case I can't sit on his rump anymore after they take my arm off, part of the Treb's survivability is speed and I'm a sitting duck working on this guy's rear internals.

The stalker was a good player too, after figuring out he wasn't going to shake me, he made swinging movements but went back to work destroying my allies who were still circle strafing the enemy brawlers in the middle of open terrain. In the end I was 2nd to last to die on my team after the 3L finally chased me down (I had used terrain to lose the phract but didn't have enough armor left to brawl the raven as my PPC was gone and my streaks were then useless, just had the MLAS).

And then 3 of my teammates just start QQing about how OP LRMs were, they couldn't believe how strong etc. etc.

I told my team that the LRM boat had no backup weapons and was a sitting duck if any of them had helped me he would have been out of the game with no problems. If they wanted to run in circles in the middle of open terrain and not kill the LRM guy then it was their fault. No one responded but it struck me that these are the types of people who come here and complain about LRMs, instead of just adjusting their tactics to the situation at hand.

You sir, I will be looking for on the fields. You are a good team mate

[Nicholas Carlyle]

That's normally how it goes in my LRM15 Centurion.

If I get ignored, or just harrassed (assuming no ECM), I'm just going to keep shooting missiles into the pack of guys that are beyond 200M away.

I had one of those matches last night, I literally ran myself back and forth in a straight line while launching missiles and ended up with 3 kills and 800 damage.

It wasn't my skill. It was just because no one look the time to really deal with me. They just want to brawl, brawl, brawl.

The game after, someone saw what I was doing and came after me. I still ended up doing 300 or 400 damage, but it was while running around like a crazy man, launching missiles as much as I could. And ended up with no kills.

Then the match after, they knew better than to leave me alone, I did like 150 damage and died early.

[Hamm3r]

I said it in another thread, individually no I dont believe the LRMs are OP, easy to counter with the proper use of cover, now take that same LRM Stalker and add another 2-3 just like it on the same team all shooting at the same target. Ever had 4 different streams of LRM spam all converging on YOU.....

[FrDrake]

Hamm3r, on 13 March 2013 - 07:38 AM, said:

I said it in another thread, individually no I dont believe the LRMs are OP, easy to counter with the proper use of cover, now take that same LRM Stalker and add another 2-3 just like it on the same team all shooting at the same target. Ever had 4 different streams of LRM spam all converging on YOU.....

Yes and they wasted nearly 150 missiles because of it

[Kylere]

LRMS are only as OP as your opponent is dumb.

But, that said, they rip up dumb opponents like nothing else.

[Ryokens leap]

Use of cover and scouts that find and harass lrm boats easily negate steel rain.

[Hamm3r]

FrDrake, on 13 March 2013 - 07:41 AM, said:

Yes and they wasted nearly 150 missiles because of it

Haha! Yea if you are lucky enough to get behind a building in time! But say for arguments sake your in the middle of a Brawl on Alpine, or your capping a point on Caustic, its not always as simple as run and hide. One maybe two shooting at you, Ok easy enough to manage, but when its 3 or 4, its pretty much instagib in those cases.

[Commander Kobold]

Tabrias07, on 13 March 2013 - 07:23 AM, said:

This is why I start every game by trying to identify LRM boats. You have to take them out first.

splat cats then LRM boats

[FrDrake]

Hamm3r, on 13 March 2013 - 07:44 AM, said:

Haha! Yea if you are lucky enough to get behind a building in time! But say for arguments sake your in the middle of a Brawl on Alpine, or your capping a point on Caustic, its not always as simple as run and hide. One maybe two shooting at you, Ok easy enough to manage, but when its 3 or 4, its pretty much instagib in those cases.

There are times everyone takes a few LRMs, but I can't recall any times I've died to them that weren't my mistake.

Riddle me this, if they have 4 LRM mechs, why is it taking you so long to brawl the last 4 or snipe them as they try to close ground?

*Edit* I play an LRM boat too sometimes, and my accuracy like mentioned above is roughly 35%. It takes alot of work to kill good players with LRMs, they brawl in between buildings or hills, not out in the open.

Edited by FrDrake, 13 March 2013 - 07:49 AM.

[Riogar Daylighter]

There should be a bunch of messages before you log in. "Always close with LRM boats." stuff like that.

[Tatula]

There was a smart LRM player in one of my games last night. We were on Caustic and he'd backed his Stalker to the border of the map so no one can get behind him. He also had an Awesome about 200m out from him to defend and draw fire. He had TAG because I was trying to get to him in my D-DC and he hammered me before I can get close. He picked his spot well because there is a big stretch of open ground in front of him that anyone trying to get to him will have to cross. He was finally overwhelmed after the Awesome died, but he's done a lot of damage.

Hats off to him for taking advantage of his knowledge of the terrain and picking his spot to make his LRM boat effective.

[Hamm3r]

FrDrake, on 13 March 2013 - 07:47 AM, said:

There are times everyone takes a few LRMs, but I can't recall any times I've died to them that weren't my mistake.

Riddle me this, if they have 4 LRM mechs, why is it taking you so long to brawl the last 4 or snipe them as they try to close ground?

*Edit* I play an LRM boat too sometimes, and my accuracy like mentioned above is roughly 35%. It takes alot of work to kill good players with LRMs, they brawl in between buildings or hills, not out in the open.

That's why I say INDIVIDUALLY there not OP, but if 3-4 people are at 35% with LRMs, collectively...different story my friend. If your in the middle of a fight, that means that guys LRM boat team mates can target you, and you wont know where they are before they fire at you unless one of your team mates targets them first. Its not always black and white, its easy to sit there and say Use cover, or your a dumb@$$ if you get killed by LRMs. I will admit that if your walking blindly out in the open, then your asking for it, but that's just simply not always the case in the real (MWO anyways) world. I play LRM boats sometimes too and 9 times outa 10 are you fireing at an idivadual target weaving his way tward the cap?? No your shooting at enemies in the middle of a brawl with your team mates because your trying to support them.

[Tykelau]

Once we get better team communication options things should shake out a bit different. IMO a lot of the OP threads problems are fixable with some communication. A way to notify your team of an LRM boat for example.

[Skyscream Sapphire]

Hamm3r, on 13 March 2013 - 07:44 AM, said:

Haha! Yea if you are lucky enough to get behind a building in time! But say for arguments sake your in the middle of a Brawl on Alpine, or your capping a point on Caustic, its not always as simple as run and hide. One maybe two shooting at you, Ok easy enough to manage, but when its 3 or 4, its pretty much instagib in those cases.

That is a fair point. In my almost-always-play-a-brawler opinion, LRMs are just fine...on most maps. As has been mentioned, they'll rip apart a new pilot within in seconds but any veteran knows to find solid cover when the warning lights up. However, on the maps with little cover (Caustic and Alpine), there can be situations where you are left little no chance. How do we balance a weapon whose effectiveness is completely dependent on map type without having to stifle the diversity of our maps?

[Nicholas Carlyle]

I'm curious.

If you stand out in the open and die to 3 Stalker LRM boats.

Do you die if you stand in the open against 3 Stalker PPC boats?

Keeping in mind that for LRM's to do what you are talking about means the Stalker is in LOS.

[Hamm3r]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 13 March 2013 - 08:03 AM, said:

I'm curious.

If you stand out in the open and die to 3 Stalker LRM boats.

Do you die if you stand in the open against 3 Stalker PPC boats?

Keeping in mind that for LRM's to do what you are talking about means the Stalker is in LOS.

I don't see PPC boats NEARLY as much as LRMs, PPCs boats run too hot for a lota people.

And No, they don't have to be LOS if the guy your fighting against has you targeted, it transmits your targeting into to his team mates as well, another advantage to the LRM boats over the PPCs.