647 replies to this topic

[Jeye]

There is a quick check for this as we now have stats broken down per weapon type. These are mine, last value is damage, the third value is HIT:

I have this weapon on a centie and an atlas:
SRM 6 52 2,920 1,991 68.18% 04:09:13 4,806

4806 / 1991 = 2.4 dmg per SRM6 missile

This looks pretty much bang on however most of this has been on an atlas I have been testing with LL's so I would not really use missile against smaller targets.

STREAK SRM 2 29 1,915 1,532 80.00% 02:39:38 4,938

4938 / 1532 = 3.2 dmg per SSRM2 missile

I only have this weapon on my 3L and is used primarily to hunt lights

For my SRM4 the value is 2.4 dmg per missile and for my LRM15 the figure is 1.7 dmg per missile!

Edited by Jeye, 14 March 2013 - 12:21 AM.

[Sadist Cain]

Good job, staff need to see this it seems, hopefully shed some light on the situation

[Leon Shirow]

Monky, on 13 March 2013 - 11:22 PM, said:

It did take us a week and a half to stumble into it after testing grounds was released. I'd be willing to cut some slack over this one, as they probably didn't think to test against the target's armor value instead of the damage report (which apparently is also bugged as it can't detect the extra damage being done).

This was noticed the day after the release of testing grounds.

http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__2016566

I did further testing and submited a bug report last Saturday. SRM/SSRM Damage (ticket #72558)

[WardenWolf]

Leon Shirow, on 14 March 2013 - 12:37 AM, said:

I did further testing and submitted a bug report last Saturday. SRM/SSRM Damage (ticket #72558)

And? Any word from PGI?

[Domenoth]

WardenWolf, on 13 March 2013 - 06:38 PM, said:

Video demonstrating bug:

What I took from that video:

"Why did you shoot the good team? Why...why did you shoot the good team?"

Mine ask me:

"Is he going to fall down soon? Are you still playing or did you fall down?"

Sadly, half the time I answer:

"No, I already fell down. I'm just watching."

[John MatriX82]

Nice finding, that's why certain configurations seems to be tremendously cheesy and you get cored in no time by a lucky LRM salvo.

Nice to know about SRMs too, but actually we also have a really bad hit detection problem (happens with PPCs/ER PPCs too), that was solved few patches ago but now it's raging back.

[Chrithu]

A lot of research. Thx for the effort. I wasn't aware of splash damage before. But it explains why the Streak Missiles in fact were very valid even before their fix that made them do the 2.5 dmg per missile as per trheir description.

I also agree with your solution but might have an alternative: Instead od removing splash damage make it so that the damage to the locationm that was hit as well as any splash damage add up to the missile's dmg. For instance by accounting 50% of the missile damage to the hit location and the other half is then spread according to what you described.

Whatever is done: Something clearly has to be made.

[Inveramsay]

Wow, very nice findings. Sorting out the SSRM damage may be the only nerf they need after all and I can only imagine what it'll do to splatcats

To me the splash damage should be allocated within the splash radius so that the two missiles to 5 damage but spread out over the entire radius of it. It could certainly be that more damage is weighted to an inner ring

[Chrithu]

Inveramsay, on 14 March 2013 - 03:03 AM, said:

To me the splash damage should be allocated within the splash radius so that the two missiles to 5 damage but spread out over the entire radius of it. It could certainly be that more damage is weighted to an inner ring

Agreed.

Splash damage should not be additional to what is listed as damage. That just imbalances the missiles. Instead the listed damage should be spread and if that proofs to be too litlle then you can go ahead and up the damage a bit.

[Deamhan]

OneEyed Jack, on 13 March 2013 - 09:36 PM, said:

Nope, it counts every missile. Unless you're suggesting that I've fire my LRM60 Stalker nearly 30,000 separate times since they began recording.


Are you seriously suggesting that a 25% increase in damage is no big deal? It's a big deal to me.

Furthermore, if you'd read my first post in this thread, you'd see I had specifically tested it on larger mechs, which have larger hit boxes, thus less damage splashing onto different locations. That damage was basically exactly 2.5/missile, allowing a slight tolerance do to the mech health being rounded off to whole percentages. This shows that the problem is affecting smaller mechs, with smaller hit boxes, mech more than larger mechs. So it really throws the entire thing out of balance and gives Streaks an even greater advantage against lights than they are supposed to have,


Nah, that's ,cause yer, head's so fat.

No, really, Cats have large heads and they are located pretty much center mass when viewed from the front. As such, they're going to take a lot of incidental head hits even when people aren't trying. Anything hitting in a big cluster in your frontal center mass will likely hit your head. Though, I've mastered all 4 cats and I don't think I've ever died from missiles to the head. Plenty of other things to the head, but never a missile.

Like i said, I fire both my streaks at the same time every time. So that is 4 missiles at a time every time. 502 / 4 = 125.5. So unless I took half a shot, this number is the number of times that the weapon has been fired.

502/2=251. I use a razer naga and I assign my weapons into 6 groups. I then use buttons 1 through 6 on my thumb grid to fire. Group 6 is both streaks together. Group 5 is an alpha. The other four groups don't fire the missiles. This means that I pressed 6 and 5 a combined total of 251 times.

And the 333 hit is not per missile. It's per shot. One shot is two missiles and only one missile has to hit to count as a hit. With lasers, you don't have to hit them for the full laser duration, you only need to hit them long enough to do damage even if it is just one point of damage. Which is why my accuracy with lasers is 90%.

And yes, that .6 dmg per missile is a high % but the damage people are talking about here is in the order 2-3 times. So 200 to 300% increase.

All I'm saying is that the weapon stats are not reflecting what is being observed.

[Mahws]

No, it's missiles fired, not times fired. I ran a test earlier today, haven't used streaks since stat tracking started. Fired = 114, I'm certain I didn't pull the trigger that many times in a single mach and I had 86 ammo left over at the end, so clearly missiles.

Your odd number must be a bug in the stat recording.

Edit:
And for what it's worth I ended up doing 3.3 damage per missile that mach, so it seems like there's some inconsistency going on between what different people are seeing in stat recording.

Edited by Mahws, 14 March 2013 - 04:49 AM.

[Xendojo]

Well done here guys!

Has anyone heard anything back from the dev team yet? All this evidence, screens....even video from live server. I'm gonna have to stop playing till this gets fixed, this is really game breaking.

I'm of the opinion that discrepancies in the stats are wrinkles in stat collection methods.

Would love to see this confirmed/acknowledged by the devs, maybe an action plan as well.

[Leon Shirow]

WardenWolf, on 14 March 2013 - 12:55 AM, said:

And? Any word from PGI?

Just a message that my report would be passed on to the devs.

[Eddy Hawkins]

Should this be in patch feedback? i thought that missile splash damage was added back in a November patch.

[atownexl]

STREAK SRM 2 17 902 669 74.17% 01:28:49 1,651

669 Missles hit, 1651 damage
2.46 damage per streak.

Maybe missle stats not include spash damage, because my AC20 averages almost 30 per hit, implying spash damage.

[sj mausgmr]

Just in case this hasn't been mentioned, there was a similar problem in MWLL and I believe it's an engine issue. The best choice is to get rid of splash damage, it's just not needed.

[stjobe]

sj mausgmr, on 14 March 2013 - 05:28 AM, said:

The best choice is to get rid of splash damage, it's just not needed.

Absolutely. No weapon in BattleTech had splash damage, and the damage numbers were balanced with that in mind. To introduce splash damage without adjusting the damage numbers downwards is a sure-fire way to create imbalance - and in this case weapons that do up to seven times their listed damage.

As I said in another post, it's akin to an AC/20 doing 140 damage per pull of the trigger.

Just remove splash damage, make missiles do their full listed damage to their hit location alone.

Edited by stjobe, 14 March 2013 - 05:47 AM.

[Fiveironfrenzy]

This explains an awful lot about the way the game is played now.

Explains why light mechs #1 priority is more speed and never ever stop moving. There is nothing more important than making sure LRMs and SRMs don't hit you.

Everyone has played a light... been killed by one LRM shot while standing still and gone WTF...

It's disappointing, I don't really want to keep playing a game this unbalanced.

Glad I didn't pay money to get a death knell.

[CrushLibs]

fix the splash damage but fix the netcode to register the SRM damage correctly.

Hitting the back of a CTF 4 times at 50 meters with 4 SRM-6s and one SRM-4 to kill it due to poor hit detection needs fixing too.

[Bloody Moon]

CrushLibs, on 14 March 2013 - 06:10 AM, said:

fix the splash damage but fix the netcode to register the SRM damage correctly.

Hitting the back of a CTF 4 times at 50 meters with 4 SRM-6s and one SRM-4 to kill it due to poor hit detection needs fixing too.

That is another issue and already under development.

Good job OP btw!