647 replies to this topic

[Tickdoff Tank]

Super Mono, on 15 March 2013 - 09:41 AM, said:

I wouldn't mind if it didn't come back. Trying to balance a damage system designed for a taletop game that assumes every mech is the same size with splash damage on mechs with wildly different proportions and geometries can not be easy.

I would like to think that splash damage will not return if they see no real problems in the game once it has been removed. But we need to keep an open mind and report what we see (accurately) once splash damage is gone. It may be that some form of splash damage, working correctly, is needed. But I definitely look forward to playing without splash damage.

[Shumabot]

Paul Inouye, on 15 March 2013 - 08:58 AM, said:

Just an update. We will be removing splash damage until further tuning can be done that takes into account the new Mechs and their respective hit boxes. The splash damage will be removed in the April 2nd patch.

So the commando is a new mech now? How does this have anything to do with new mechs, when one of the originals is the one most effected? What is the purpose of the splash damage in the first place? Why does it exist at all?

Edited by Shumabot, 15 March 2013 - 09:46 AM.

[Tickdoff Tank]

Shumabot, on 15 March 2013 - 09:45 AM, said:

So the commando is a new mech now? How does this have anything to do with new mechs, when one of the originals is the one most effected? What is the purpose of the splash damage in the first place? Why does it exist at all?

Commando was was not one of the originals.

[Shumabot]

Tickdoff Tank, on 15 March 2013 - 09:48 AM, said:

Commando was was not one of the originals.

So "new" means "six months ago"?

[Super Mono]

Tickdoff Tank, on 15 March 2013 - 09:48 AM, said:

Commando was was not one of the originals.

It's probably one of the first if not the first mech they added outside of the original 4. I'm not sure how this went undetected for so long if the problem really is with the model on any newer mech.

Edited by Super Mono, 15 March 2013 - 09:57 AM.

[Shumabot]

Super Mono, on 15 March 2013 - 09:54 AM, said:

It's probably one of the first if not the first mech they added outside of the original 4. I'm not sure how this went undetected fro so long if the problem really is with the model on any newer mech.

People in the forums did constantly say nothing was wrong with SRMs. Kinda shows you exactly how much the devs should listen to their forums. How they didn't catch this in internal testing is a mystery though. It's like they don't do any, or they have no method of statistical tracking under the hood.

Edited by Shumabot, 15 March 2013 - 09:58 AM.

[stjobe]

Super Mono, on 15 March 2013 - 09:54 AM, said:

It's probably one of the first if not the first mech they added outside of the original 4. I'm not sure how this went undetected for so long if the problem really is with the model on any newer mech.

The Commando has never been a very popular 'mech (although it is my first true love in MWO), even though it was always the cheapest non-trial. Also, the devs have been fiddling with missiles just about every patch, making it hard to know whether something was up with the new adjustment to missiles (or anti-missiles, or ECM, or ... you get it) or with the missiles itself.

[JudgeDeathCZ]

no future for LRMs...ECM,disable splash...yeah go play with lasers and balistics....

[WardenWolf]

arghmace, on 15 March 2013 - 09:19 AM, said:

Do we have info on the splash radius of different weapons? As far as I know, missiles aren't the only splashers. When I put an AC-20 round into enemy chest, I'm pretty sure he flashes in many locations. So maybe AC-20 does like 100 damage to Commando

Lasers definitely do not splash, and I tested ERPPCs and Gauss as well. I don't run ACs on any of my mechs currently, so I have not tested that.

[PapajIGC]

Really? You're going to wait 2.5 gorram weeks to remove something as gamebreaking as this? Apparently nobody has the cajones to step up and say "Sorry, we done goofed big time, we're getting on this ASAP" and would much rather play the " But it's still Beta" scapegoat card and stick another nail in their own game's coffin and further isolate/anger their already small playerbase.

Why should I even log in and play the Jagers if all that will happen are I drop into games with literal flocks of Raven 3Ls and be decimated by streaks while I remain unable to hit them thanks to a terrible engine and still bugged hitboxes/UI notifications. Oh wait, it's because I wasted money on premium time and I hate wasting money. You dirty, dirty people.

Pro tip of the day: Keep your playerbase happy and you keep your game alive. Treat your playerbase like trash and watch your game get thrown in the trash.

[WardenWolf]

JudgeDeathCZ, on 15 March 2013 - 10:00 AM, said:

no future for LRMs...ECM,disable splash...yeah go play with lasers and balistics....

I dunno - I run a LRM boat fairly often, and my other main runs 3 x SSRM2... and yet I am one of the biggest proponents on this thread for dropping splash damage and re-evaluating things. I am eager to see how those weapons fare when doing only the damage they are supposed to by the numbers

[BlueSanta]

Paul Inouye, on 15 March 2013 - 08:58 AM, said:

Just an update. We will be removing splash damage until further tuning can be done that takes into account the new Mechs and their respective hit boxes. The splash damage will be removed in the April 2nd patch.

I appreciate the quick response, although I would like to ask why can't it be removed in Tuesday's patch and could you please consider removing the splash damage completely forever? It isn't right that a weapon can do MORE damage that its listed damage value, and this issue could arise again as you keep adding mechs. Also, as others have brought up, a warhead this small can't do everything; it can't pierce armor and cause splash damage (same reason LBX is suppose to have two ammo types). Please think of how small these missiles really are.

[WardenWolf]

PapajIGC, on 15 March 2013 - 10:04 AM, said:

Really? You're going to wait 2.5 gorram weeks to remove something as gamebreaking as this? Apparently nobody has the cajones to step up and say "Sorry, we done goofed big time, we're getting on this ASAP"

Hey, woah, slow down there! They need at least some time to run this change through internal testing and make sure that it doesn't inadvertently affect something else... and we are only days away from the next planned patch, so it is likely too late to change anything it in. This is about as good of an answer as any of us could have hoped for, and they are being *VERY* responsive about it. Plus, we've lived with this for weeks / months now... so I don't think 2.5 more weeks will kill anyone. If you hate it so much, just take a break from the game and then come back.

[p4r4g0n]

PapajIGC, on 15 March 2013 - 10:04 AM, said:

Really? You're going to wait 2.5 gorram weeks to remove something as gamebreaking as this? Apparently nobody has the cajones to step up and say "Sorry, we done goofed big time, we're getting on this ASAP" and would much rather play the " But it's still Beta" scapegoat card and stick another nail in their own game's coffin and further isolate/anger their already small playerbase.
-snip-

If you use missiles, look at your weapon stats and calculate your dmg / hit. Unless you're getting a number wayyyy above 2.5 / 1.8 I hardly think the term "game breaking" is warranted.

What people should be thinking about is what will be the dmg / hit when splash is removed

[Shumabot]

BlueSanta, on 15 March 2013 - 10:07 AM, said:

I appreciate the quick response, although I would like to ask why can't it be removed in Tuesday's patch and could you please consider removing the splash damage completely forever? It isn't right that a weapon can do MORE damage that its listed damage value, and this issue could arise again as you keep adding mechs. Also, as others have brought up, a warhead this small can't do everything; it can't pierce armor and cause splash damage (same reason LBX is suppose to have two ammo types). Please think of how small these missiles really are.

That warhead is the size of a hellfire missile according to the in game model.



Just a reminder that the modern earth military would annihilate the clans. Battletech technology is awful.

[HighTest]

PapajIGC, on 15 March 2013 - 10:04 AM, said:

Really? You're going to wait 2.5 gorram weeks to remove something as gamebreaking as this? Apparently nobody has the cajones to step up and say "Sorry, we done goofed big time, we're getting on this ASAP" and would much rather play the " But it's still Beta" scapegoat card and stick another nail in their own game's coffin and further isolate/anger their already small playerbase.

Why should I even log in and play the Jagers if all that will happen are I drop into games with literal flocks of Raven 3Ls and be decimated by streaks while I remain unable to hit them thanks to a terrible engine and still bugged hitboxes/UI notifications. Oh wait, it's because I wasted money on premium time and I hate wasting money. You dirty, dirty people.

Pro tip of the day: Keep your playerbase happy and you keep your game alive. Treat your playerbase like trash and watch your game get thrown in the trash.

You know, I'm not usually one to support the dev-bashers,

And ironically I have also historically been on record suggesting that the devs spend too much time messing around with micro-managing game balance and not enough time on new features, etc.

And I don't even own a light mech in my mechbay.

But I have to agree with this post. 2 1/2 weeks to fix what appears to be a major, glaring game fault? It's not like this is a minor issue -- this is a pretty serious gameplay balance issue. We're talking a hugely unwarranted increase in weapon damage from this bug.

If anything in the history of MW:O deserved a quick hotfix, I would have to think that this is one of them.

Just my $.02.

Hmm. I think I'm going to be playing my Catapults a lot this weekend...

[BlueSanta]

Shumabot, on 15 March 2013 - 10:10 AM, said:

That warhead is the size of a hellfire missile according to the in game model.



Just a reminder that the modern earth military would annihilate the clans. Battletech technology is awful.

BT tech was originally conceived in the 80s. Also, part of the lore involves a loss and then rediscovery of current tech for that time period. Really, giant walking robots with a dude inside aren't smart military practice even now, let alone in the future, I imagine. What this is is mechanized medieval warfare--knights in powered armor.

[Shumabot]

p4r4g0n, on 15 March 2013 - 10:08 AM, said:

If you use missiles, look at your weapon stats and calculate your dmg / hit. Unless you're getting a number wayyyy above 2.5 / 1.8 I hardly think the term "game breaking" is warranted.

What people should be thinking about is what will be the dmg / hit when splash is removed

It scales up to fifteen times listed damage values. It actually is pretty game breaking, but this is a broken game in so many other ways, so this hardly is the leak thats sinking the ship.

BlueSanta, on 15 March 2013 - 10:14 AM, said:

BT tech was originally conceived in the 80s. Also, part of the lore involves a loss and then rediscovery of current tech for that time period. Really, giant walking robots with a dude inside aren't smart military practice even now, let alone in the future, I imagine. What this is is mechanized medieval warfare--knights in powered armor.

The hellfire missile has been in use since the 80s. The setting doesn't actually make internal sense. They have space flight and fusion engines, but their missiles are weaker than modern grenades and their canons shoot a fraction the distance an abrahms can shoot.

[BlueSanta]

Shumabot, on 15 March 2013 - 10:16 AM, said:

The hellfire missile has been in use since the 80s. The setting doesn't actually make internal sense. They have space flight and fusion engines, but their missiles are weaker than modern grenades and their canons shoot a fraction the distance an abrahms can shoot.

Than fix it. Reboot BattleTech.

[Ransack]

PapajIGC, on 15 March 2013 - 10:04 AM, said:

Really? You're going to wait 2.5 gorram weeks to remove something as gamebreaking as this? Apparently nobody has the cajones to step up and say "Sorry, we done goofed big time, we're getting on this ASAP" and would much rather play the " But it's still Beta" scapegoat card and stick another nail in their own game's coffin and further isolate/anger their already small playerbase.

Why should I even log in and play the Jagers if all that will happen are I drop into games with literal flocks of Raven 3Ls and be decimated by streaks while I remain unable to hit them thanks to a terrible engine and still bugged hitboxes/UI notifications. Oh wait, it's because I wasted money on premium time and I hate wasting money. You dirty, dirty people.

Pro tip of the day: Keep your playerbase happy and you keep your game alive. Treat your playerbase like trash and watch your game get thrown in the trash.

what's the big deal about a two week wait? Apparently it went undetected for months

Quote

When SRM splash damage went into the game, there were a total of 4 Mechs available to the playerbase. The Jenner, Hunchback, Catapult and the Atlas.

At least they are making a move on it quickly, unlike ECM which has been OP since release.

Put the commando and spider on a shelf for a couple of weeks and play a different mech.