85 replies to this topic

[Eddy Hawkins]

SnakeTheFox, on 13 March 2013 - 10:10 PM, said:

But I will be. LRMs need to be toned back, and don't say "hug ECM" because that's not something everyone can rely on in pugs; you either get someone with it, or you don't. The other canned response is usually along the lines of "LRMs require teamwork to be viable" which is basically akin to saying "just hope the other team is stupid"; also not something to bank on as a winning strategy (necessarily).

I run two builds primarily at the moment: a slow, long range gaussphract and a fast(ish) short range hunchback 4SP. Two totally different sets of strengths, weaknesses, and overall playstyles. And yet, there is literally nothing I fear more, in either of these builds, than LRMs. And I'm not even necessarily talking LRM boats here; anything with 15+ LRMs is literally the most dangerous opponent on the map for me.

Now, it's certainly easy enough to spit out anecdotal "well I usually just get close to them herp derp minimum range", but that strategy (like many overly-simplistic counters) is very frequently nonviable; a single escort or two can make an LRM boat untouchable by any force of equal tonnage, except under one (or more) of these three conditions:

1) The map is closed off enough to make getting in close under cover a possibility. Most maps are very open at the moment, however. And for those maps with varying terrain, the closed areas are usually just avoided by the LRM boats and their escorts altogether.

2) You have ECM.

3) You have more LRMs.

I don't know how it occurs to anyone as balanced to give the longest ranged weapon in the game and can track targets outside of visual range, which also happens to track targets automatically and thus requires nothing but a sustained lock, a burst DPS and sustainable DPS far in excess of anything else in the game. Good balance is not "let's make something really powerful and then tailor everything else to work around it".

Fin.

all Missiles are doing, in some cases, more damage than intended. There is a post in the patch feedback section. Click, read, and be enlightened


http://mwomercs.com/...results-inside/

Edited by Eddy Hawkins, 14 March 2013 - 05:36 AM.

[Roland]

LRM's are kind of just all messed up at the moment.

They alternate between being totally underpowered, and effectively negated in utility if the enemy has ECM mechs, to being totally overpowered and just obliterating targets who do not have cover.

They are clearly broken at this point. If a weapon system is essentially going to alternate between trash and easy mode, based on a roll of the dice, something is messed up with that system.

[Orbit Rain]

Immelmann, on 13 March 2013 - 10:28 PM, said:

in addition, how are these people getting INSTANT lock? guy looks at me for 1 sec and a plethora of LRMs are already on the way.

...have you heard of the Target Info Gathering module? Or Beagle Active Probe, or a TAG laser perhaps? All three stacked give (essentially) instant lock. Your understanding of how missiles work also appears to be incomplete.

Edited by Orbit Rain, 14 March 2013 - 08:10 AM.

[Yokaiko]

Target info + bap, sensor range and target decay is the only way to fly

[Noobzorz]

Davers, on 13 March 2013 - 10:44 PM, said:

No they don't.

I can recall several instances in which an artemis LRM cored me and left other armor yellow (and not that orangey yellow. . . the "oh I had a collision with a jenner" yellow). I have seen it happen. How often it does this or under what conditions they do this I don't know, but don't tell him that they don't do it, because they damn well can and do.

Edited by Noobzorz, 14 March 2013 - 08:12 AM.

[Josef Nader]

LRMs are almost as hard to dodge as they are to shoot.

They have a great big long travel time and you get both audio and visual warnings the minute they leave the tube. It's not the LRM's fault that you're too dopey to find a building or rock or low hill or other mech to hide behind while the LRMs lazily fly in.

[StalaggtIKE]

SnakeTheFox, on 13 March 2013 - 10:10 PM, said:

I run two builds primarily at the moment: a slow, long range gaussphract and a fast(ish) short range hunchback 4SP. Two totally different sets of strengths, weaknesses, and overall playstyles. And yet, there is literally nothing I fear more, in either of these builds, than LRMs. And I'm not even necessarily talking LRM boats here; anything with 15+ LRMs is literally the most dangerous opponent on the map for me.

I would say that falls under working as intended. LRM is supposed to be the bane to slow mechs and brawlers.

Edit: Diversify your builds a bit, add some speed to that Gaussphract and some ranged attacks to your HBK-4SP. For example, I ran into a team with 3 LRM boats on Caustic. My DRG-C1 is packing a Gauss cannon, 4x mlasers and 300XL. Taking a few gauss shots here and there, I had to use speed to run from cover to cover, closing the distance. By the time I got in close, they were weakened and easy kills for my 4x mlasers and team.

Edited by StalaggtIKE, 14 March 2013 - 08:24 AM.

[Josef Nader]

StalaggtIKE, on 14 March 2013 - 08:16 AM, said:

I would say that falls under working as intended. LRM is supposed to be the bane to slow mechs and brawlers.

Pretty much. LRMs are how you deal with slow-moving, heavy duty mechs like assaults or slow heavies. It's fire support. The whole point of fire support is to ruin slow moving or stationary targets. If you don't want to get ruined by LRMs, stay in cover in your slow mover.

If you can't move faster than 120 kph, don't try to run across open fields. Simple as that.

[Commander Kobold]

Immelmann, on 13 March 2013 - 10:28 PM, said:

i have noticed that LRMs ONLY hit center torso. i look at my damage taken and it is usually a LOOOOOONG list of LRMs that ONLY hit CT. all my other armor is yellow, but there lies my mech, smoldering, with no CT thanx to LRMs.

in addition, how are these people getting INSTANT lock? guy looks at me for 1 sec and a plethora of LRMs are already on the way.

you can fire LRMs as soon as you see the little swirly missle locking thing and as long as you dont loose the lock they'll still track once the lock in confirmed.

[Eddy Hawkins]

StalaggtIKE, on 14 March 2013 - 08:16 AM, said:

I would say that falls under working as intended. LRM is supposed to be the bane to slow mechs and brawlers.

Edit: Diversify your builds a bit, add some speed to that Gaussphract and some ranged attacks to your HBK-4SP. For example, I ran into a team with 3 LRM boats on Caustic. My DRG-C1 is packing Gauss, 4x mlasers and 300XL. Taking a few gauss shots here and there, I had to use speed to run from cover to cover, closing the distance. By the time I got in close, they were weakened and easy kills for my 4x mlasers and team.

Missiles are not working as intended, and in some cases, they are doing 3x the damage intended. There is a post in the patch feedback section. Click, read, and be enlightened

http://mwomercs.com/...e/page__st__220

[shotokan5]

Missiles are fine maybe tune back up anti missile system right now they are useless. Everything will be fine.

[Otto Cannon]

Noobzorz, on 14 March 2013 - 08:12 AM, said:

I can recall several instances in which an artemis LRM cored me and left other armor yellow (and not that orangey yellow. . . the "oh I had a collision with a jenner" yellow). I have seen it happen. How often it does this or under what conditions they do this I don't know, but don't tell him that they don't do it, because they damn well can and do.

Probably because with the bugged extra splash damage at the moment, the centre torso will naturally take splash from any other locations simply by being in the middle. The problem should go away when the bug gets fixed.

[BLUPRNT]

Johnny Reb, on 13 March 2013 - 10:18 PM, said:

Still, LRM's arn't as great as that glorious day artimis first got introduced!

OH God, how many of us can remember that day before the hot patch. Head hunting LRM's.
Run Forest Run!

Edited by BLUPRNT, 14 March 2013 - 08:34 AM.

[MischiefSC]

Pretending that only 'bad players' get LRMed is ridiculous. If that were the case nobody would use LRMs except the steering wheel underhive and that's not the case. Skilled players use LRMs to kill skilled players. Saying 'just stay under cover and LRMs are not an issue' is like saying 'if someone shoots a Gauss at you, just dodge. Skilled players don't get hit by ACs or Gauss, you just move. L2P.'

It's foolishly disingenuous. LRMs do a stupid amount of damage and are considerably easier to deploy than ACs or lasers. Easier than sniping or brawling. That's why people do it and why the games population has moved to about 50% LRM builds - they're easy money. 40 or so LRMs plus some medium range weapons is easier to use and does more damage than piling up PPCs or ACs or lasers, more survivable and far less skill.

I should know, I've started doing it. On an Atlas or the like you don't even need TAG - Advanced sensors, BAP, target decay. You've got the range to pick them up, find the guy outside of ECM and rain death on him. When they close to brawl with your team you can drop LRMs on the ECM guy at around 250m. By the time he realizes that he's getting LRMed the warning time is so short he'll be dead before he pushes past your brawlers to rush you. Even if he does, that's what the 4xLLs are for.

LRMs are not 'OPed' or 'easy mode'. The are however more powerful than any other weapon type (by damage to weight, by damage at range, by ability to put damage on target - you don't have to aim) and far, far easier than brawling or sniping.

[Fut]

Devillin, on 13 March 2013 - 11:49 PM, said:

I've seen LRMs hit light mechs mostly in the legs, and mediums have been hit anywhere from the arms to the torsos. I've dodged missile strikes in my Atlas RS. Think about it. In An Atlas. If they are always hitting you in the CT, then you aren't moving or using cover.

Also, for the love of god, spin your Torso so that they aren't hitting you in the CT! Let the brunt of the damage hit your arm, and keep spinning to spread the damage across your arm, side torso and center torso.

[Josef Nader]

They also have a huge travel time and audio/visual warnings. Gauss, ACs, Lasers, and PPCs don't. They're instant, and there's no WEAPON FIRE INCOMING indicator.

There's no excuse for experienced players to die to LRMs, as evidenced by the complete absence of LRMs in competitive leagues. Any player worth his neurohelmet will work up to the LRM boat under cover and blend his butt as soon as the INCOMING MISSILE warning flashes up.

Shoot, I take an LRM volley now and then. All I do is twist my mech to take the volley on the strongest parts of my armor. I GET TO PICK WHERE THE MISSILES HIT ME. Think about that for a second. What other weapon gives you that much freedom to deal with them?

LRMs are not a problem at all. Any nerfs applied will make them even more useless.

Edited by Josef Nader, 14 March 2013 - 08:43 AM.

[Mister Blastman]

Monky, on 13 March 2013 - 10:15 PM, said:

There is currently a known bug with all missile weapons that was uncovered today, the thread is in the patch feedback section now. Basically, missiles splash, but it is triple dipping back onto the original part hit, on top of dealing full damage to the splashed section. It's all sorts of crazy how that got through.

No wonder... I swore something was phucked with LRMs last night.

The other problem with LRMs (than the bug) is everyone has a C3 computer. C3 computers should cost tonnage and slots--they shouldn't be free on every mech.

PGI should rectify this immediately.

[MaddMaxx]

Immelmann, on 13 March 2013 - 10:28 PM, said:

i have noticed that LRMs ONLY hit center torso. i look at my damage taken and it is usually a LOOOOOONG list of LRMs that ONLY hit CT. all my other armor is yellow, but there lies my mech, smoldering, with no CT thanx to LRMs.

in addition, how are these people getting INSTANT lock? guy looks at me for 1 sec and a plethora of LRMs are already on the way.

Modules!

[Tickdoff Tank]

Davers, on 13 March 2013 - 10:44 PM, said:

No they don't.

You are correct. But to be fair, it does seem like the LRMs are hitting CT with more missiles than they should be. But as Monky pointed out, there is an issue with missiles (all of them, not just LRMs) and the splash damage. Until that is corrected we can not make a determination on the *actual* effectiveness of missiles. And it is a pretty HUGE bug.

[80Bit]

Posts like this confuse me so much. How can anyone think LRMs are OP? In my last 300+ matches I have only taken significant LRM damage a dozen or so times tops.

I play on all the mech and LRMs are never a problem. There are situations where LRM boats can prevent me from moving into areas but I am almost never even hit by them.

I am not trying to argue any point here. Just saying I an quite confused.