85 replies to this topic

[Josef Nader]

80Bit, on 14 March 2013 - 09:51 AM, said:

Posts like this confuse me so much. How can anyone think LRMs are OP? In my last 300+ matches I have only taken significant LRM damage a dozen or so times tops.

I play on all the mech and LRMs are never a problem. There are situations where LRM boats can prevent me from moving into areas but I am almost never even hit by them.

I am not trying to argue any point here. Just saying I an quite confused.

This. The only time LRM boats provide me with any grief is when I watch an entire team of dumbarse pugs run around open ground letting the LRM boats rain hell upon them, or when nobody wants to rush down the LRM 50 stalker with two medium lasers for backup weapons. I die to LRM fire once in a blue moon, usually because I was already in really bad shape from real weapons and the LRM boat managed to work around to an angle where he could hit me while I was tangling with his buddy. Even then, it's a rare occurrence. It's so darn trivial to get out of the way.

[Trauglodyte]

Monky, on 13 March 2013 - 10:15 PM, said:

There is currently a known bug with all missile weapons that was uncovered today, the thread is in the patch feedback section now. Basically, missiles splash, but it is triple dipping back onto the original part hit, on top of dealing full damage to the splashed section. It's all sorts of crazy how that got through.

After reading that entire thread, that is a HUGE issue with missiles. Explains annecdotal evidence of missiles against the Awesome (HUGE hit boxes) vs missiles against other mechs.

[Haegir]

QQ

[Eddy Hawkins]

Josef Nader, on 14 March 2013 - 09:54 AM, said:

This. The only time LRM boats provide me with any grief is when I watch an entire team of dumbarse pugs run around open ground letting the LRM boats rain hell upon them, or when nobody wants to rush down the LRM 50 stalker with two medium lasers for backup weapons. I die to LRM fire once in a blue moon, usually because I was already in really bad shape from real weapons and the LRM boat managed to work around to an angle where he could hit me while I was tangling with his buddy. Even then, it's a rare occurrence. It's so darn trivial to get out of the way.

have you read the SRM thread in the patch notes section? ALL missles (in some cases) are doing more then their intended damage atm. if a 15damage weapon can blow off the arms, and core a mech in one shot... the things are OP

here is the thread
Click, read, and be enlightened
http://mwomercs.com/...results-inside/

[Josef Nader]

Eddy Hawkins, on 14 March 2013 - 10:18 AM, said:

have you read the SRM thread in the patch notes section? ALL missles (in some cases) are doing more then their intended damage atm. if a 15damage weapon can blow off the arms, and core a mech in one shot... the things are OP

here is the thread
Click, read, and be enlightened
http://mwomercs.com/...results-inside/

I haven't noticed because LRMs are so freaking easy to dodge.

[Ph30nix]

im so F'in sick and tired of these OP threads both for LRM and ECM (i dont use ECM and while its annoying and could use a tweak its not OP)

Do people just want a magic umbrella so they never have to do anything vs LRM's? do they want to just have everyone run up to each others face with short range 1 button alphas and that be that?

LRM's are Long range weapons, that lock on to a target and have a limited tracking ability, the better the lock and if you have LOS the better the clustering thats how they are supposed to work.

If someone wants to arm themselves with nothing but LRM's thats up to them instead of whining about it go run up in their face and laugh as they try to run away and you tear them apart.

If there are 2 LRM boats covering eachother TRY KEEPING THE ONE YOUR ATTACKING BETWEEN YOU AND THE OTHER ONE. guess what those missles WILL HIT HIS TEAM MATE.

Every map has plenty of cover if your dumb enough to sit in the open then you deserve to die from LRM's. I mean do you whine when you get blasted long range with a PPC or Gause or AC/2? ya know weapons that require no lock and can be fired from even farther then an LRM (less damage but still hurts) and that aside from PPC are instant travel time?

"oh but missles hit me behind cover!!!!"
TRY NOT JUST BACKIN UP move to the friggin side and watch the missles splat at your feet.

I mean seriously people all this whinning basicly adds up to certain people just wanted LRM's removed from the game because they cant handle them and want an easier game where they have to think less.

i hate saying this but LEARN TO PLAY, once you do you will realize that LRM's are SUPPORT weapons yes they get kills but they usualy just soften up mechs for rest of your team. I have had games with 700+ damage and zero kills but 5+ assists because the guy with the instant speed weapons finishs them off and thats fine i did my job.

Edited by Ph30nix, 14 March 2013 - 10:35 AM.

[Eddy Hawkins]

Josef Nader, on 14 March 2013 - 10:19 AM, said:

I haven't noticed because LRMs are so freaking easy to dodge.

no argument from me on that, the point is when they hit, they are (in some cases) doing 3x the damage they should be. try to not let your epeen get in the way of seeing the bigger issue at hand.

[Josef Nader]

Eddy Hawkins, on 14 March 2013 - 10:43 AM, said:

no argument from me on that, the point is when they hit, they are (in some cases) doing 3x the damage they should be. try to not let your epeen get in the way of seeing the bigger issue at hand.

What bigger issue? If there's a bug, it'll be fixed. It's clearly not intended to work like that and it'll get swept away in the next patch or two. My point still stands that it's nobody's fault but the pilot's if they get torn to shreds by LRMs.

[Coolant]

SnakeTheFox, on 13 March 2013 - 10:10 PM, said:

But I will be. LRMs need to be toned back, and don't say "hug ECM" because that's not something everyone can rely on in pugs; you either get someone with it, or you don't. The other canned response is usually along the lines of "LRMs require teamwork to be viable" which is basically akin to saying "just hope the other team is stupid"; also not something to bank on as a winning strategy (necessarily).

I run two builds primarily at the moment: a slow, long range gaussphract and a fast(ish) short range hunchback 4SP. Two totally different sets of strengths, weaknesses, and overall playstyles. And yet, there is literally nothing I fear more, in either of these builds, than LRMs. And I'm not even necessarily talking LRM boats here; anything with 15+ LRMs is literally the most dangerous opponent on the map for me.

Now, it's certainly easy enough to spit out anecdotal "well I usually just get close to them herp derp minimum range", but that strategy (like many overly-simplistic counters) is very frequently nonviable; a single escort or two can make an LRM boat untouchable by any force of equal tonnage, except under one (or more) of these three conditions:

1) The map is closed off enough to make getting in close under cover a possibility. Most maps are very open at the moment, however. And for those maps with varying terrain, the closed areas are usually just avoided by the LRM boats and their escorts altogether.

2) You have ECM.

3) You have more LRMs.

I don't know how it occurs to anyone as balanced to give the longest ranged weapon in the game and can track targets outside of visual range, which also happens to track targets automatically and thus requires nothing but a sustained lock, a burst DPS and sustainable DPS far in excess of anything else in the game. Good balance is not "let's make something really powerful and then tailor everything else to work around it".

Fin.

River City - you are standing out in the water so you can't avoid missiles
Caustic Valley - You are straying to far away from the cauldron and out in the open and you can't avoid missiles
Forest Colony - You are going out in the water in the open and can't avoid missiles
Frozen City - You are cresting the hill near the downed ship and multiple enemy units are targeting you and you can't avoid missiles
Alpine - You are charging out into the middle valley making you a prime target and you can't avoid the missiles

[Calem]

SnakeTheFox, on 13 March 2013 - 10:10 PM, said:

I run two builds primarily at the moment: a slow, long range gaussphract and a fast(ish) short range hunchback 4SP.

I don't get it. Regardless of the splash issue which I agree should be addressed.

A gaussphract is utterly lethal to the classic LRM stalker. You can dump mad damage onto its nose by the time he's got a lock. He can't sanely get Artemis or Tag to work, as that'd would be a homing beacon for your gausses. Maintaining line of sight to a gaussphract for several seconds just isn't an option. You could still complain about Indirect fire, but it's equally annoying to everyone. Not to mention it adds meaning to a map's infrastructure and a whole new tactical dimension.

And your 4SP hunchie prob'ly goes a bit over 90 kph with excellent maneuverability, some lasers and double SRM6s. It's great. It dances around the battlefield. Stalkers however can only shoot where their nose is pointing. And their twist is miserable. An LRM boat is a feast for a 4SP.

Well sorry. I tried not to, but I'll have to blame bad piloting.

[Eddy Hawkins]

Ph30nix, on 14 March 2013 - 10:33 AM, said:

im so F'in sick and tired of these OP threads both for LRM and ECM (i dont use ECM and while its annoying and could use a tweak its not OP)

Do people just want a magic umbrella so they never have to do anything vs LRM's? do they want to just have everyone run up to each others face with short range 1 button alphas and that be that?

LRM's are Long range weapons, that lock on to a target and have a limited tracking ability, the better the lock and if you have LOS the better the clustering thats how they are supposed to work.

If someone wants to arm themselves with nothing but LRM's thats up to them instead of whining about it go run up in their face and laugh as they try to run away and you tear them apart.

If there are 2 LRM boats covering eachother TRY KEEPING THE ONE YOUR ATTACKING BETWEEN YOU AND THE OTHER ONE. guess what those missles WILL HIT HIS TEAM MATE.

Every map has plenty of cover if your dumb enough to sit in the open then you deserve to die from LRM's. I mean do you whine when you get blasted long range with a PPC or Gause or AC/2? ya know weapons that require no lock and can be fired from even farther then an LRM (less damage but still hurts) and that aside from PPC are instant travel time?

"oh but missles hit me behind cover!!!!"
TRY NOT JUST BACKIN UP move to the friggin side and watch the missles splat at your feet.

I mean seriously people all this whinning basicly adds up to certain people just wanted LRM's removed from the game because they cant handle them and want an easier game where they have to think less.

i hate saying this but LEARN TO PLAY, once you do you will realize that LRM's are SUPPORT weapons yes they get kills but they usualy just soften up mechs for rest of your team. I have had games with 700+ damage and zero kills but 5+ assists because the guy with the instant speed weapons finishs them off and thats fine i did my job.

most of people that are talking about LRM op ness are doing so because when they get hit by them they dont understand why they get hurt so much, so they must be OP.

yes they can be counterd for all the reasonons you have said

but the issue is that in some cases they are hitting for 3x the stated damage, if the AC20 sometimes hit for 60damage a shot... what would you say then?

"omg noob use cover!" or "kill it from long range noob!"

read the post and watch the vids that people have recored to show the testing they have done. splash is not working as intended, and untill the issue is fixed, yes SRMs/SSRMs/LRMs are in fact OP

Click, read, and be enlightened

http://mwomercs.com/...results-inside/

Josef Nader, on 14 March 2013 - 10:46 AM, said:

What bigger issue? If there's a bug, it'll be fixed. It's clearly not intended to work like that and it'll get swept away in the next patch or two. My point still stands that it's nobody's fault but the pilot's if they get torn to shreds by LRMs.

the bigger issue is they are somtimes doing (in some cases) 3x the damage they should be doing... THAT is the issue. have you read the post and watched the vids?

[Josef Nader]

Eddy Hawkins, on 14 March 2013 - 10:55 AM, said:

the bigger issue is they are somtimes doing (in some cases) 3x the damage they should be doing... THAT is the issue. have you read the post and watched the vids?

Josef Nader, on 14 March 2013 - 10:46 AM, said:

What bigger issue? If there's a bug, it'll be fixed. It's clearly not intended to work like that and it'll get swept away in the next patch or two. My point still stands that it's nobody's fault but the pilot's if they get torn to shreds by LRMs.

The bigger issue is reading comprehension in public schools.

Edited by Josef Nader, 14 March 2013 - 10:57 AM.

[Kylere]

Sorry, but you are "that guy"

I am a pugger, 100% and I never die to LRMs. You know why? I know how to play.

[Ph30nix]

Eddy Hawkins, on 14 March 2013 - 10:55 AM, said:

most of people that are talking about LRM op ness are doing so because when they get hit by them they dont understand why they get hurt so much, so they must be OP.

yes they can be counterd for all the reasonons you have said

but the issue is that in some cases they are hitting for 3x the stated damage, if the AC20 sometimes hit for 60damage a shot... what would you say then?

"omg noob use cover!" or "kill it from long range noob!"

read the post and watch the vids that people have recored to show the testing they have done. splash is not working as intended, and untill the issue is fixed, yes SRMs/SSRMs/LRMs are in fact OP

Click, read, and be enlightened

http://mwomercs.com/...results-inside/



the bigger issue is they are somtimes doing (in some cases) 3x the damage they should be doing... THAT is the issue. have you read the post and watched the vids?

if its a bug fix it dont have time to read that entire post yet, but personly i have only ever gotten one salvo kills on lights even then they have more then likely taken some hits from other sources.

but even without that bug the whines will still be the same. just means they will take an extra 40 or so missles to the face before they die because they didnt do anything about it

[Davers]

While I haven't kept up with the SRM thread since last night so I don't know if they did LRM tests, I am sure it will come back as doing extra damage since missiles all use the same 'system'. This is of course a bug, and LRMs should do what they are supposed to (missiles explode in a 3m diameter and 1.8 damage is divided into the sections hit).

But this doesn't help with getting hit in the first place.

[sarkun]

SnakeTheFox, on 14 March 2013 - 12:50 AM, said:

I don't seem to have the same definition of "most" as you do. When I say it, I mean to imply "the majority"; not "each and every single one".

So if you agree that Frozen City, Forest Colony And River city maps are not open... that leaves 2 maps - Alpine and Caustic.
That's two maps out of eight.

You are correct that we don't have the same definition of the word "most", when you seem to imply that 25% is 'majority'.

[Taemien]

SnakeTheFox, on 13 March 2013 - 10:10 PM, said:

But I will be. LRMs need to be toned back, and don't say "hug ECM" because that's not something everyone can rely on in pugs; you either get someone with it, or you don't. The other canned response is usually along the lines of "LRMs require teamwork to be viable" which is basically akin to saying "just hope the other team is stupid"; also not something to bank on as a winning strategy (necessarily).

I run two builds primarily at the moment: a slow, long range gaussphract and a fast(ish) short range hunchback 4SP. Two totally different sets of strengths, weaknesses, and overall playstyles. And yet, there is literally nothing I fear more, in either of these builds, than LRMs. And I'm not even necessarily talking LRM boats here; anything with 15+ LRMs is literally the most dangerous opponent on the map for me.

LRMs are working by design. Slow targets will be munched by long range mechs. I'd imagine your Cataphract would be decimated by PPCs and Er Large Lasers too. As for your hunchback, I'd have to see how you're handling it. Ideally you shouldn't have any issues getting close.

If the LRM mech has support/escort. The problem isn't LRMs. the problem is you're trying to go 1v2 or 3 or 4. Get some of your teammates to sneak in around and get them from behind. If the LRM guy can get escorts, you should be able to get some peeps to go in with you using the same strategy (VOIP, premading, using ingame chat to get a PUG or two to come with, ect).

The issues with LRMs that I have seen is brawls. When you're in a brawl, LRMs rip you apart. Again this is by design. So what players need to learn to do is wait before committing to the grand melee brawl that always seems to happen. Wait and see what the enemy has. If they have LRM mechs. Maneuver around and try to damage/destroy those assets. You need to move around your foe in a sort of mech based chess game to pull it off.

My advice is to just simply never commit to brawls when solo queuing. You throw everything to chance and loadout and put very little emphasis on actual skill. Thats typically where my success comes from while solo queuing. I stay out of the melee and pick people off that run by themselves. The only time I don't is when I am with 3 friends. Then we use the advantage of initiative and force the brawl on the other team before they are ready for it, and from a direction not of their choosing. And usually their LRM mechs are already down.

[Devillin]

Eddy Hawkins, on 14 March 2013 - 10:55 AM, said:

"omg noob use cover!" or "kill it from long range noob!"

read the post and watch the vids that people have recored to show the testing they have done. splash is not working as intended, and untill the issue is fixed, yes SRMs/SSRMs/LRMs are in fact OP

Click, read, and be enlightened

http://mwomercs.com/...results-inside/

the bigger issue is they are somtimes doing (in some cases) 3x the damage they should be doing... THAT is the issue. have you read the post and watched the vids?

If you actually read the whole thread, they also locked part of *that* issue down to Testing Grounds not working the way it is supposed to. So far they've listed several problems with Testing Grounds, including: mechs are not at full armor (they only have ~60% armor), energy weapons recharge faster than they are supposed to, and yes, missiles do more damage than they are supposed to, among other problems. So using that thread, and those videos to prove your point is problematic at best.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

lol when they were 1.7 damage each they were so nerfed you could ignore them. Now that theyre 1.8, omg theyre op and need to be nurfed!!

[JP Josh]

Magicbullet141, on 13 March 2013 - 10:59 PM, said:

tone back the damage from 1.8 to 1.3. The tabletop value of 1 does not work and 1.8 is too damn high!

i vote for you to be forced to pilot trianing for newbies if your having problems....... or i just got great scouts. may you feel the love of my lrms soon!!!