463 replies to this topic

[Corbon Zackery]

CATAPULT CPLT-C4 27 12 15 0.80 14 17 0.82 6,544 16,983 02:27:19

I'm not even a master pilot so yea the boats need a dmg nerf back to 1.5.

[armyof1]

Lukoi, on 14 March 2013 - 06:39 PM, said:

My current Atlas has an alpha of 102....I don't use any one item more than twice...is that OP? I know I can kill a light in one alpha within the right conditions. Is it unfair?

And it certainly also has different kinds of weaponry from short to long range, that you can't just push the alpha button and all the damage will be focused on one point and hit at the same time, right?

[Davers]

Lukoi, on 14 March 2013 - 06:39 PM, said:

My current Atlas has an alpha of 102....I don't use any one item more than twice...is that OP? I know I can kill a light in one alpha within the right conditions. Is it unfair?

2 LL, 2 LRM15, AC/20, 2 ML?

[Lukoi Banacek]

I'm not twisting your words at all man. I'm asking where the ballpark is that we're playing "boating." This forum is RIFE with crying, complaining etc with no data to back it up whatsoever. Just anecdotal complaining.

Since you're clearly on one side of the issue and I'm clearly on the other, I'm asking you to define in some reasonable terms, where the problem lies.

You imply that the builds somehow circumvent the tactics to some insurmountable degree, but can't show it via your argument/premise. Basically you're arguing off your gut instead of facts.

So again, when do we reach an unfair amount of firepower? The 90pt Splatcat? My 102pt Atlas (which boats nothing btw)?

The facts are the builds you're complaining about (apparently there are about....2-3? The splatcat and HexaPPC stalker? maybe LRM boats?) all sacrifice quite a bit of flexibility to attain those awesome Alpha's. Your opinion is that they are OP. Mine is that they aren't b/c tactically they can be easily picked apart and overcome. But there are more facts supporting my end.

If you admit that all of these "L2P" issues can in fact defeat the cheese builds, what exactly is the problem? That new players and casual players have to learn that the hard way? That we're not spoon fed on how to defeat "cheese builds" by a game that from its inception was supposedly promised to extend the legacy of sim over arcade feel of the MW games.

I guess we can agree to disagree here, but ultimately the anti boating crowd isn't pointing to much other than their gut and their opinions that the floating target of boating is somehow detrimental to the game. If someone could define which boats are specifically the problem as opposed to just saying categorically, that boating itself is the problem, that would go a long way to finding out if there was truly something in need of fixing here.

[Commander Kobold]

Nunspa, on 14 March 2013 - 06:49 PM, said:

Umm, I HATE to bring this up.... but you do all realise that the SRM Boat Catapult is cannon right?


Custom Variants

• Catapult CPLT-C1 Jenny "Butterbee" - The personal ride of MechWarrior Jenny Templeton, this variant of the Catapult replaces the standard arm-mounted LRM-15s with a quartet of SRM-6 missile launchers, two in each arm.

4 srms6s is not nearly as bad as 6 of them

[armyof1]

Lukoi, on 14 March 2013 - 07:16 PM, said:

I'm not twisting your words at all man. I'm asking where the ballpark is that we're playing "boating." This forum is RIFE with crying, complaining etc with no data to back it up whatsoever. Just anecdotal complaining.

Since you're clearly on one side of the issue and I'm clearly on the other, I'm asking you to define in some reasonable terms, where the problem lies.

You imply that the builds somehow circumvent the tactics to some insurmountable degree, but can't show it via your argument/premise. Basically you're arguing off your gut instead of facts.

So again, when do we reach an unfair amount of firepower? The 90pt Splatcat? My 102pt Atlas (which boats nothing btw)?

The facts are the builds you're complaining about (apparently there are about....2-3? The splatcat and HexaPPC stalker? maybe LRM boats?) all sacrifice quite a bit of flexibility to attain those awesome Alpha's. Your opinion is that they are OP. Mine is that they aren't b/c tactically they can be easily picked apart and overcome. But there are more facts supporting my end.

If you admit that all of these "L2P" issues can in fact defeat the cheese builds, what exactly is the problem? That new players and casual players have to learn that the hard way? That we're not spoon fed on how to defeat "cheese builds" by a game that from its inception was supposedly promised to extend the legacy of sim over arcade feel of the MW games.

I guess we can agree to disagree here, but ultimately the anti boating crowd isn't pointing to much other than their gut and their opinions that the floating target of boating is somehow detrimental to the game. If someone could define which boats are specifically the problem as opposed to just saying categorically, that boating itself is the problem, that would go a long way to finding out if there was truly something in need of fixing here.

Oh man, yes I'll simply agree to disagree. You don't even bother to read and comment on points I've made, I don't see how adding more would help our discussion.You have fun with your boats while I think they'll without a doubt ruin the game in the long run.

[Royalewithcheese]

Omni 13, on 14 March 2013 - 07:20 PM, said:

4 srms6s is not nearly as bad as 6 of them

I would say that four of them is exactly as bad compared to 6 of them as 2 of them is compared to 3 of them

[Lukoi Banacek]

armyof1, on 14 March 2013 - 06:55 PM, said:

And it certainly also has different kinds of weaponry from short to long range, that you can't just push the alpha button and all the damage will be focused on one point and hit at the same time, right?

Even the splat cat doesn't hit all in the same place except at face hugging range...that's pretty specific circumstances. My atlas does it's alpha pretty commonly, usually in the same location on a Mech and in a specific range as well (180-300 -- I do my best to maintain that sweetspot). So if my best circumstances is a 130m range and the same could be said for the Splat cat (100m or less to have the best damage pattern), why are they OP and the Atlas isn't? The Cat has to close to ridiculously short range to even get shots off!! At least the Atlas can fire at multiple ranges if it so chooses.

[Lootee]

Doesn't the Vulture-A come standard with 6×SRM6?

Better hope PGI doesn't reverse their stance on never adding vehicles (like they did with coolant flush, lock arms to torso, 3rd person). Cuz the canon SRM carrier has 10×SRM6.

Boating is part of the BattleTech universe. The technical readouts sometimes refer to LRM/SRM laden mechs as missile boats as well.

Edited by PanchoTortilla, 14 March 2013 - 07:39 PM.

[KittenKrusher Prime]

to the author .... you sir are fighting an uphill battle...there are so many of these power gamer tards about and they will oppose you at every turn....winning is the only reason these low lives havent committed suicide yet.... it wasnt for srm boats or sitting down the back with thier fairy pencils never actually seeing any combat then thier inadequacy would have already overwhelmed them and they would be lying on the bathroom floor bleeding out. The only fix i can think of is to make certain weapon systems unavailable to certain chassis... this would make boats go away but it would make it so that say we never see the splatter or streak cat ever again.... yes the Cat would still be a boat but it would be the boat it was supposed to be by the same token no lrms for atlas would see it back at the front in the fight where it is supposed to be. Also PGI lowered the heat on PPC's ect so that we could have fun using them, its up to us to use the responisbly, just like the WoW paladin if we abuse their kindness we will see **** nerfed as it the case with LRM's at the moment i am actually wishing they never touched ECM and left it the way it was. Keep the game fun and dont be a power hungry tard and this game will be around for a fair while abuse it and everyone will leave sure ur splattercat can win ..but who you gonna shoot??? p.s. KDR dont mean **** in this game.

[Lukoi Banacek]

armyof1, on 14 March 2013 - 07:23 PM, said:

Oh man, yes I'll simply agree to disagree. You don't even bother to read and comment on points I've made, I don't see how adding more would help our discussion.You have fun with your boats while I think they'll without a doubt ruin the game in the long run.

You don't make a point....you make a very general complaint about "boats" but don't want to narrow down what the issue you're complaining about is

And I don't run any boats. I fight against boats, but don't have any....wait, no, that's not true....I do run a 5LL Phract, but apparently that's not an OP boat, so not sure it counts for the sake of this discussion.

In the end, just wait for the bigger maps to continue to arrive. Just adding Alpine forced many people to adjust their builds to be more flexible...as Tourmaline and others get added, this trend will likely continue to go down (except for the Hexa-stalkers.....range doesn't bother them so much).

Edited by Lukoi, 14 March 2013 - 07:31 PM.

[Royalewithcheese]

Kittenkrusher, on 14 March 2013 - 07:28 PM, said:

sitting down the back with thier fairy pencils

[Commander Kobold]

Royalewithcheese, on 14 March 2013 - 07:24 PM, said:

I would say that four of them is exactly as bad compared to 6 of them as 2 of them is compared to 3 of them

atleast if it was only 4 of them you'd have a decent chance to atleast fire back and maybe scratch the splat cats paint

[armyof1]

Lukoi, on 14 March 2013 - 07:29 PM, said:

You don't make a point....you make a very general complaint about "boats" but don't want to narrow down what the issue you're complaining about is

And I don't run any boats. I fight against boats, but don't have any....wait, no, that's not true....I do run a 5LL Phract, but apparently that's not an OP boat, so not sure it counts for the sake of this discussion.

In the end, just wait for the bigger maps to continue to arrive. Just adding Alpine forced many people to adjust their builds to be more flexible...as Tourmaline and others get added, this trend will likely continue to go down (except for the Hexa-stalkers.....range doesn't bother them so much).

I've made plenty of points, but all you're doing is asking me to single-handedly fix the the boating issue for PGI, and if I can't do it then I have no right to claim there is something wrong, since I can't "prove" it unless I can describe in detail how it should be fixed. I mean that is just ridiculous, but then again demanding ridiculous things is one of those classic easy way outs to win an argument.

Edited by armyof1, 14 March 2013 - 07:42 PM.

[Lukoi Banacek]

no one is asking you to fix PGI's problem. I'm asking you to define what the problem is in your opinion.....is it boating? Is it certain builds "boating?" Is it just certain builds that are OP irrespective of whether they boat or not? You're all over the place.

What is OP here? What is the problem as you see it? You don't like certain builds because....they are too hard to beat or something? (because clearly, as has been illustrated by numerous people, they aren't).

Hell man, I'm not even trying to "win an argument." I'm trying to get the bottom of your complaint, because I don't see it the way you do AT ALL and you can't explain to me what your problem is.....you just say "boating is bad and it ruins the game."

[Nathan Foxbane]

Funny thing about boats. They do not perform all that well when grouped with the same. They take advantage of specializing and if they are grouped with something that complements them they do well, doubly so if they operate in environments that play to their strengths. If they find themselves alone or outside of their niche operating range, they fall apart. Good example I played a game where the other team had a pair of Stalkers. One was exclusively LRM and the other was Streaks and mediums. Individually they were easy prey, but as a matched pair they were the last 'Mechs standing because they compensated for their partner's weaknesses.

Yes, splatcats have massive alphas and good turns of speed and maneuverability, but they only shine in one on one and ambush situations. Pin them down, draw their fire with something nimble, and hit them hard, they fall quickly. They also often have ammunition problems if the pilots are not patient with their shots and I have seen more than a few pilots take advantage of other players ignorance of that by bluffing their way out of bad situations. In one instance a opposing splatcat chased a teammate around for almost two minutes before my panicked ally realized he had not been shot at, the cat was dispatched quickly afterward. Many others have very exploitable weaknesses. They become difficult when players stop thinking as an individual and start playing to complement strengths of other builds. Splatcat pilots in particular have become very aware of what priority targets they are and have learned to let other dangerous builds lead the way and draw attention to make the most of their fast strike, but limited range builds.

To condense a very long post. Most boats are merely adequate individually. They are lethal when complemented and coordinated.

[Eddrick]

PanchoTortilla, on 14 March 2013 - 07:26 PM, said:

Doesn't the Vulture-A come standard with 6×SRM6?

Yes it does. Also with an ERPPC and LB 5-X AC Vulture Alt. Config. A

Quote

Alt. Config. A - The Mad Dog A can bring devastating fire on targets at any range, mounting an ER PPC and an LB 5-X AC, with which it can easily cripple enemies from long range. Should it get close enough, its six SRM-6 racks ensure the demise of nearly any foe. BV (1.0) = 1,510^[2], BV (2.0) = 1,923^[3][8]

[Commander Kobold]

Eddrick, on 14 March 2013 - 09:00 PM, said:

Yes it does. Also with an ERPPC and LB 5-X AC Vulture Alt. Config. A

change the SRM6s to SSRM6s just to get the highest possible amount of tears

[Royalewithcheese]

Apparently there's also a dualguass Mad Dog because the clans give no sh*ts about "balanced" builds. Also default Shadow Cat is apparently a poptart

EDIT: Ahahahahaha Timber Wolf D. Has 2 ERPPCs (clan versions do 15!!!! damage) and 4xSRM6. But it also has a random ER Small Laser and two of the SRM6s shoot backwards for no discernible reason.

Edited by Royalewithcheese, 14 March 2013 - 09:22 PM.

[Commander Kobold]

Royalewithcheese, on 14 March 2013 - 09:17 PM, said:

Apparently there's also a dualguass Mad Dog because the clans give no sh*ts about "balanced" builds. Also default Shadow Cat is apparently a poptart

EDIT: Ahahahahaha Timber Wolf D. Has 2 ERPPCs (clan versions do 15!!!! damage) and 4xSRM6. But it also has a random ER Small Laser and two of the SRM6s shoot backwards for no discernible reason.

most back mounted weapons have been replaced on the front of mechs no? and if not change the rear missles to streaks and they'll just circle around to the front

Royalewithcheese, on 14 March 2013 - 09:17 PM, said:

Apparently there's also a dualguass Mad Dog because the clans give no sh*ts about "balanced" builds. Also default Shadow Cat is apparently a poptart

EDIT: Ahahahahaha Timber Wolf D. Has 2 ERPPCs (clan versions do 15!!!! damage) and 4xSRM6. But it also has a random ER Small Laser and two of the SRM6s shoot backwards for no discernible reason.

most back mounted weapons have been replaced on the front of mechs no? and if not change the rear missles to streaks and they'll just circle around to the front