75 replies to this topic

[Neolisk]

Hil, on 02 April 2013 - 01:49 AM, said:

No, that's because game without any limit will make people bored much earlier.

Unreal Tournament is a game without any limit. People are still playing it.

[Daggett]

Karl Streiger, on 02 April 2013 - 06:06 AM, said:

So when economy is bad...for balancing how to create a shortage of ammunition? Same with armor and spare parts.

Simply by not connecting them to cbills which can be bought by MC.
That's what i meant with community warfare as being a good chance to implement RnR.

Make things like ammo a resource by itself which players have to fight over but can't buy it with cbills.
Or include a new "Campaign cbills" resource which can only be obtained doing CW-stuff.
You could also implement secondary objectives in missions like a warehouse that can be raided.

All those options would allow for RnR without making it P2W.

Karl Streiger, on 02 April 2013 - 06:06 AM, said:

I player have to spend MC to run broken imbalanced builds...than they have too.

Totally disagree. EVERYONE regardless of financial situation or devotion must be able to run any build, be it broken or not.
Prime objective for PGI is to either nerf clearly broken things and/or to create a metagame that allows players to punish broken builds.

What would you say to a totally broken Hero mech?
"If players have to spend MC to run broken imbalanced builds...than they have too." Really?

Edited by Daggett, 02 April 2013 - 06:42 AM.

[Syllogy]

In any case, 87% of people agree that removing C-Bills is a bad idea.

[blinkin]

Daggett, on 02 April 2013 - 05:45 AM, said:

That does not mean that RnR is a bad thing by default. It just needs to be designed correctly. The upcoming community warfare would provide a good opportunity to include such a well designed RnR system which does not punish F2P-players.

agreed. we should do it right. the old system was a bit broken, but i think removing it outright was a bad idea. there were and are too many things in the game that were built around that balance.

i understand the P2W arguments and those are the only arguments on this point that i do not have a solid answer to, but i think the number of people who would consistently dump money into a mech that they don't know how to play properly would be low. in closed beta i never saw any problems. i very rarely saw "splatcats" in closed beta. my SRM cat was unique on the field. i think there should be special cursed builds that punish any player who is not skilled enough to run them properly. that was part of what made this game unique and most certainly one of the prime reasons i played a lot before. since RR was removed i have come to the point where i rarely log in and play more than once every couple of weeks.

MC is a shortcut to bypass grinding cbills (i am not a fan of this system but have yet to come up with anything better). all players can run the super expensive builds. skilled players earn the right through blood. rich players earn the right through money. everyone else earns the right through hard work in cheaper mechs.

[Spirit of the Wolf]

Actually, as of now, with 20 votes for, 124 votes against, and 12 abstaining, it's "only" 79.4% who say it's a bad idea.

Right, I think this poll got the message across.

[Raenen]

I say we could use repairs. If we don't make enough money then increase what we make a bit. If some one goes broke they can always pilot a test mech. It adds realism to the game to spend money on repairs and makes the player think is it worth while. Making things too simple doesn't do people any favors in the long run.

[repete]

Sorry for not reading through this whole thread, but to the OP, C-Bills are how your grinding is compensated. You can* (Kind of) buy what you want with real world money (MC) or you can grind to get C-Bills and play for 'free'.

* I'm still surprised at the lack of MC to C-Bill exchange, currently requiring you to buy mechs, to either get the mechs/bits you want, and in some cases then sell, to get C-Bills to get the things you wanted but couldn't get with MC.

[Target Rich]

And that's the problem....No other Mecha game has DEMANDED that you invest real money to purchase every single mech in the game and all the significant equipment.... Without a C-Bill type of system...this game dies...period.

If you haven't noticed the really slow accumulation of C-Bills in this game is the exact OPPOSITE of every single mecha game I have played...and I have played every one since pen and paper days in the 1970's.

Nope....I assume that this game is moving towards a release in the summer fall...and based on what I read...the developer's next big push will be towards having real factions and units within that faction by enabling unit to unit combat through directed match play. Yea there is a great deal more that can be done...which has already been modeled well in the XBOX 360 game Chromehounds....

In Chromehounds...you paid a initial fee for the game...then you paid for monthly connect on the XBOX system... Basically a WOW setup.

Here...you have a rather bizarre system in which every advance costs you...because you really have to purchase that mech and that equipment using MC currency..ie investment of real dollars...and that can run you literally hundreds of dollars per year...much more than WOW even.

This is a key question that must be dead solid perfect if this game is to succeed. Frankly right now...the game is populated by dyehard MW3 and 4 fans....who will play this game regardless....

In my opinion...the current system virtually guarantees that this game will stay a irrelevant niche game that appeals only to those diehards.

The game should NOT be focused upon monetary purchase all equipment through MC's being the primary determinant of success...

Success should be based on skill...winning battles....advancing the macro game of conquering the universe for your faction...unit play...etc.

Setting up a bunch of mickey mouse sheep fleecing accounting systems in place of that type of open game play will ensure game failure upon release,...

Like ALL previous successful mecha games...a new player should be able to earn their mechs and a great deal of mechs quickly....then they should be able to acquire special stuff from winning battles....

That guarantees strong unit play...based on teamwork...and rankings based on merit and skill rather than personal bankrolls....

[Alpha087]

As they add more mechs, consumables, ect, I'm sure there will be more of a use for C-Bills if you've somehow managed to buy everything already.

[Leo Khan]

When MWO was first released I didn't have a computer capable of running it. I had a little time off and built a new system, and I never played the version with reload and rearm. But it sounds a lot like MechWarrior 3, where you could run out of ammo and have to redesign your mech or use a different one if you didn't earn enough c-bills or raid enough warehouses to replenish. I like the game as it is, even though I've only been playing three days, and the only complaint I have about the c-bill system is that it will take me several months of game play to earn another 10 million c-bills and buy a new mech and equipment. If I was a kid living with mom and dad who didn't have a mortgage and car payment to make, I would just play all day and become as good as the folks who have been playing since the first beta was released. I don't have that option, so I have to deal with the fact that until I can consistently get three or four kills with my Hunchback or Centurian, I'm not going to get many c-bills. The same way I have to deal with the fact that until I when the lottery or submit that patent that makes the company billions of dollars and I get a fat end of the year bonus, most of each paycheck is going to my bills. With rearm and reload, or c-bills to buy new equipment, it still comes down to the effort you put into improving your skills, not picking and choosing the right combination of equipment until you have a winning design for every situation.

[BillHones]

Deathlike, on 16 March 2013 - 04:06 AM, said:

Removing C-bills would cripple the entire MC economy. It wouldn't even be considered.

and we wont have new content and a server to play on and a game.... plus, im not playing at a rate in which ill get everything i want soon. i wont burn out before launch and need a break.

[Airborne Thunder]

Karl Streiger, on 15 March 2013 - 06:52 AM, said:

Based on another topic.
http://mwomercs.com/...80#entry2063380

There was the question are C-Bills necessary.
We have no maintanance cost, whe have no rearm cost. So the only thing C-Bills does is to slow you down. 10 Battles to buy the next PPC...or even 100 for the next mech. It doesn't do any good, actually.

You have to fight X-battles...or you have to grind in X-battles... when you got used to start with leaching or suicide farming there is a high chance that you will never start to learn top play the game right.

As long there is no rearm and repair to consider - there is no real reason for c-bills. Right?

You are totally right. They really should try harder to make us spend more real money on this game. Next you are going to say that the government just doesn't tax us enough.

[Karl Streiger]

Airborne Thunder, on 31 July 2013 - 07:17 PM, said:

You are totally right. They really should try harder to make us spend more real money on this game. Next you are going to say that the government just doesn't tax us enough.

Depends on were you come from.

Its an old topic, its was right from the beginning a hyperbole - considering the not available end game content. I knew players that have hundreds of million c-bills... if i didn't have virtually stoped playing in march i would have the same ammount of money and nowhere to spend it.
Actually - i could say - that i still have to grind all those shiny assault mechs....but i have to admit, the Atlas is actually everything i like to have. Any additional mech is just a "lets" see what is in there.

So my main argument is still in existence.
We need better reasons for the pure existence of C-Bills.
Could be BattleMech behaviour

• you have to buy your "upgrades" in Refit Kits
  
• Upgrading of Endosteel, CASE, Engine or DHS are only possible once when buying a new Mech
  
• Upgrading considering Refit Kits C and D - (PPC for MLAS, Gauss for MG) have a cost increase of 200%
  
• Result: instead of a single AS7-D where I'm changing the loadouts i have a couple of them - each with its special role

[MrJolly]

Karl Streiger, on 31 July 2013 - 10:35 PM, said:

Depends on were you come from.

Its an old topic, its was right from the beginning a hyperbole - considering the not available end game content. I knew players that have hundreds of million c-bills... if i didn't have virtually stoped playing in march i would have the same ammount of money and nowhere to spend it.
Actually - i could say - that i still have to grind all those shiny assault mechs....but i have to admit, the Atlas is actually everything i like to have. Any additional mech is just a "lets" see what is in there.

So my main argument is still in existence.
We need better reasons for the pure existence of C-Bills

You have the mechs and loadouts you want and are happy with that. As you don't desire purchasing any more mechs, the only way C-Bills could be relevant to you mechwise is if playing matches had costs equal to the rewards. If that was the case all people who do want to buy new mechs, or who are not as skilled as you, would be severly shafted.

As a mild contrast we can take myself. I haven't played for very long - about 750 games and 100M C-Bills in. If I was only running my favourite mech and never wanted anything else, I would be in your position. Accumulating C-Bills would have no meaning for me. I would probably be strictly GXP limited. However, I still have lots of mechs I want to try out and master, so I'm still strictly limited by C-Bills, and that by a long shot.

For me, the current C-Bill system is fine - it takes a while to get a new mech, but not so long that it feels like a total grind. If the system was tuned so you would feel the rush from making enough to pay the bills, I would be playing trial mechs 90% of the time while getting stomped all over by you, or I would have to stick with the one mech cadet bonus bought me.

So, there would have to be some other means for you to spend your C-Bills. Maybe get your own dropship for 30 billions or something. (CW could actually be made a C-Bill sink by making drop ship rental be expensive, thereby limiting the reach of companies. Would need to be tuned so it didn't exclude fresh players, though.)

[Airborne Thunder]

Karl Streiger, on 15 March 2013 - 06:52 AM, said:

Based on another topic.
http://mwomercs.com/...80#entry2063380

There was the question are C-Bills necessary.
We have no maintanance cost, whe have no rearm cost. So the only thing C-Bills does is to slow you down. 10 Battles to buy the next PPC...or even 100 for the next mech. It doesn't do any good, actually.

You have to fight X-battles...or you have to grind in X-battles... when you got used to start with leaching or suicide farming there is a high chance that you will never start to learn top play the game right.

As long there is no rearm and repair to consider - there is no real reason for c-bills. Right?

Nice Job! -------> Aug. 6th Patch. Next are you going to tell the teacher she forgot to give us our homework?

[Drunk Canuck]

Kogru, on 15 March 2013 - 08:05 AM, said:

The cadet system basically throws cbills at new players so they can buy 2 or 3 mechs after about 20 or so games. From then on earning cbills is just another form of progression as pilot XP, which i like. It really doesn't take long to earn enough to buy a new mech, but it is something you need to think about which i like.

Also yeah, consumables.

When your win to loss ratio goes from 9-1 in 8 man's to 3-7 in 12 man's doing 10 drops a day, farming them C-Bills to buy more Mech's isn't exactly easy anymore. Upgrading Mech's isn't easy anymore either, if you buy a Mech with C-Bills, you are more then likely going to modify it, changing the load out costs C-Bills too, and for what you have to pay just to upgrade something like Double Heatsinks costs as much as you would get from winning about 15 matches now. I can lay out 700 damage, snag a few kills and still be alive at the end of a match and still only get 150k for the drop.