85 replies to this topic

[SnakeTheFox]

But I will be. LRMs need to be toned back, and don't say "hug ECM" because that's not something everyone can rely on in pugs; you either get someone with it, or you don't. The other canned response is usually along the lines of "LRMs require teamwork to be viable" which is basically akin to saying "just hope the other team is stupid"; also not something to bank on as a winning strategy (necessarily).

I run two builds primarily at the moment: a slow, long range gaussphract and a fast(ish) short range hunchback 4SP. Two totally different sets of strengths, weaknesses, and overall playstyles. And yet, there is literally nothing I fear more, in either of these builds, than LRMs. And I'm not even necessarily talking LRM boats here; anything with 15+ LRMs is literally the most dangerous opponent on the map for me.

Now, it's certainly easy enough to spit out anecdotal "well I usually just get close to them herp derp minimum range", but that strategy (like many overly-simplistic counters) is very frequently nonviable; a single escort or two can make an LRM boat untouchable by any force of equal tonnage, except under one (or more) of these three conditions:

1) The map is closed off enough to make getting in close under cover a possibility. Most maps are very open at the moment, however. And for those maps with varying terrain, the closed areas are usually just avoided by the LRM boats and their escorts altogether.

2) You have ECM.

3) You have more LRMs.

I don't know how it occurs to anyone as balanced to give the longest ranged weapon in the game and can track targets outside of visual range, which also happens to track targets automatically and thus requires nothing but a sustained lock, a burst DPS and sustainable DPS far in excess of anything else in the game. Good balance is not "let's make something really powerful and then tailor everything else to work around it".

Fin.

Edited by SnakeTheFox, 13 March 2013 - 10:14 PM.

[Monky]

There is currently a known bug with all missile weapons that was uncovered today, the thread is in the patch feedback section now. Basically, missiles splash, but it is triple dipping back onto the original part hit, on top of dealing full damage to the splashed section. It's all sorts of crazy how that got through.

Edited by Monky, 13 March 2013 - 10:15 PM.

[Johnny Reb]

Still, LRM's arn't as great as that glorious day artimis first got introduced!

[Terror Teddy]

Monky, on 13 March 2013 - 10:15 PM, said:

There is currently a known bug with all missile weapons that was uncovered today, the thread is in the patch feedback section now. Basically, missiles splash, but it is triple dipping back onto the original part hit, on top of dealing full damage to the splashed section. It's all sorts of crazy how that got through.

interesting, so my 20% hit ratio with crazy damage lrm5's might be somewhat wrong.

[N0ni]

Johnny Reb, on 13 March 2013 - 10:18 PM, said:

Still, LRM's arn't as great as that glorious day artimis first got introduced!

What an Awesome day that was.

[Max Immelmann]

i have noticed that LRMs ONLY hit center torso. i look at my damage taken and it is usually a LOOOOOONG list of LRMs that ONLY hit CT. all my other armor is yellow, but there lies my mech, smoldering, with no CT thanx to LRMs.

in addition, how are these people getting INSTANT lock? guy looks at me for 1 sec and a plethora of LRMs are already on the way.

[Inyc]

Honestly if LRMs suddently became OP because of the tighter spread, then they could just slightly up the spread until people are satisfied on both sides. Or just fix that damage multiplication effect from all missiles and see if people feel good about them.

[BloodyProphecy]

lol, learn to use cover man, i walk around in a pretty baby 80 ton assault, im a huge slow moving target, so i just hug walls and if i get that warning i move behind cover and break the lock or force at least most of the LRM's to hit the wall/ground instead of me, ECM cover is also handy when its nearby, so i move towards the other puggers who have it in EVERY match..... AND LRM'***** Mostly CT because thats the biggest part of any mech. ALso the way that LRM's lock on quickly is by the tag lasers, if a light mech runs up to you pinging you with one of those every mech can lock on to you quick as Sin.

Edited by BloodyProphecy, 13 March 2013 - 10:35 PM.

[Johnny Reb]

Dead Eye 01, on 13 March 2013 - 10:28 PM, said:

What an Awesome day that was.

Got alot of xp that night!

[MischiefSC]

Just started an RS with 2x ALRM20s and 4xLLs. It's so much easier than my brawling D-DC. Less skill required, less difficult to do damage with. I play at an Elo level with premade teams most the time so it's not that I'm in the steering wheel underhive. They're just easier. Tons of damage and I don't even have tag. don't need it. Follow your brawlers at about 280 meters or so and just ROFLSTOMP the poor ******** who come out. It's best to not use them at all until the enemy closes or your team closes with them so they get away from cover.

I LRMed down an ECM Atlas today, like my 3rd match. I'm not even good with LRMs.

All the people talking about how they just use cover and LRMs are no problem.... I bet they get LRMed down all the time. That or they play at an Elo level I never ever enteract with and I drop in pugs with Broceratops and some other top flight folks sometimes. I'm not in the elite but at least I get pulled in as their filler when the matchmaker struggles. I die all the time when that happens but still. I'm not in the pit of despair at least.

LRMs are not 'easy mode'. They are however a hell of a lot easier than sniping or brawling. Even SSRMs require you to get into brawling range. I get that you have to position yourself, use cover, etc. You have to do that when brawling or sniping too - just you have to do it while dancing with the enemy in the front lines.

ECM/missile balance is broken.

Please fix it. Please.

[Davers]

Immelmann, on 13 March 2013 - 10:28 PM, said:

i have noticed that LRMs ONLY hit center torso.

No they don't.

[Johnny Reb]

Dead Eye 01, on 13 March 2013 - 10:28 PM, said:

What an Awesome day that was.

Thankfully it only lasted only a day!

Edited by Johnny Reb, 13 March 2013 - 10:48 PM.

[Davers]

SnakeTheFox, on 13 March 2013 - 10:10 PM, said:

But I will be. LRMs need to be toned back, and don't say "hug ECM" because that's not something everyone can rely on in pugs; you either get someone with it, or you don't. The other canned response is usually along the lines of "LRMs require teamwork to be viable" which is basically akin to saying "just hope the other team is stupid"; also not something to bank on as a winning strategy (necessarily).

I run two builds primarily at the moment: a slow, long range gaussphract and a fast(ish) short range hunchback 4SP. Two totally different sets of strengths, weaknesses, and overall playstyles. And yet, there is literally nothing I fear more, in either of these builds, than LRMs. And I'm not even necessarily talking LRM boats here; anything with 15+ LRMs is literally the most dangerous opponent on the map for me.

Now, it's certainly easy enough to spit out anecdotal "well I usually just get close to them herp derp minimum range", but that strategy (like many overly-simplistic counters) is very frequently nonviable; a single escort or two can make an LRM boat untouchable by any force of equal tonnage, except under one (or more) of these three conditions:

1) The map is closed off enough to make getting in close under cover a possibility. Most maps are very open at the moment, however. And for those maps with varying terrain, the closed areas are usually just avoided by the LRM boats and their escorts altogether.

2) You have ECM.

3) You have more LRMs.

I don't know how it occurs to anyone as balanced to give the longest ranged weapon in the game and can track targets outside of visual range, which also happens to track targets automatically and thus requires nothing but a sustained lock, a burst DPS and sustainable DPS far in excess of anything else in the game. Good balance is not "let's make something really powerful and then tailor everything else to work around it".

Fin.

I'm sorry, but you are just not using cover.

I started typing a lot more than this, but in a nutshell, it's this.

[Merky Merc]

Johnny Reb, on 13 March 2013 - 10:18 PM, said:

Still, LRM's arn't as great as that glorious day artimis first got introduced!

Worst day ever. My 4SP was getting smashed by those damned things, stupid LRM boats.

[Sephlock]

"" "LRMs require teamwork to be viable" which is basically akin to saying "just hope the other team is stupid"; also not something to bank on as a winning strategy (necessarily).""

Yes, they do require teamwork to be viable, and that's why, as a lone wolf, I have to pray that the other team is stupid if I want them to work for me .

(I know that's not what you meant, but its true nonetheless...)

Heres a crazy idea. Move forward until you can barely see the enemy LRM boat.

Fire.

Move backwards.

Congratulations, you are now immune to LRMs.

[Protection]

Here's the thing, though. LRMs are almost completely unused and ignored in competitive environments. The top tier organized teams shun LRMs because they are not effective enough in organized games.

This is the problem. PUGs die too easily, and organized teams almost never lose to LRMs. Nerfing them makes them even more useless to competitive play, and buffing them makes PUGs even more susceptible.

[Magicbullet141]

tone back the damage from 1.8 to 1.3. The tabletop value of 1 does not work and 1.8 is too damn high!

[Davers]

Why do I have the feeling that the OP will be 'that guy' complaining about airstrikes too (even though a stock Atlas can walk through from one side and out the other of the 50m blast radius in 6.5 seconds and take no damage).

[FrupertApricot]

JUST LET US LASER MISSILES DOWN!
This way if its just you and the LRM boat you can defend yourself a bit, but if you are getting properly support fired you will be more vulnerable. plus it looks awesome.

[Volthorne]

FrupertApricot, on 13 March 2013 - 11:03 PM, said:

JUST LET US LASER MISSILES DOWN!
This way if its just you and the LRM boat you can defend yourself a bit, but if you are getting properly support fired you will be more vulnerable. plus it looks awesome.

http://youtu.be/97du1N7Znb0