144 replies to this topic

[Ph30nix]

NRP, on 18 March 2013 - 02:36 PM, said:

Here's what I hate. I'm in a brawl with multiple enemies. We are literally face hugging each other. LRMs come raining down and hit me. They don't even scratch the dude I am literally 10m away from. This is wrong imo. If all people are going to do is sit back and spam LRMs into the furball, they should damage everything with an area radius, not just one highlighted enemy. I think if there was a reasonable chance these LRM **** could get team kills, they would need to be a bit more selective about where they spam those things.

why are you brawlin out in the open without cover near by?

[Taemien]

xRaeder, on 18 March 2013 - 03:04 PM, said:

LRMs in MW4 were awesome. They quickly locked on but required a line of sight.

This isn't true. The Narc in MW4 made it so that LRMs didn't even need LOS or a lock, you just fired in some random direction. As long as there wasn't 20m+ structures or buildings in the way, you hit.

Quote

Until ballistics stop bouncing off targets despite explosion hit particles displaying I say LRMs and SRMs need a nerf because they don't suffer from the same bugs.

I shot an stationary Atlas with an AC/20 4 times... explosion particles appear and the mech rocks to the left or right and no damage. That **** needs to change.

I don't understand how breaking weapons that actually work how they are supposed to makes sense. The players could simply stop using broken weapons until they are fixed and get better results. You never nerf something because something else is broken. You simply fix the broken system.

[xRaeder]

Taemien, on 18 March 2013 - 04:18 PM, said:

This isn't true. The Narc in MW4 made it so that LRMs didn't even need LOS or a lock, you just fired in some random direction. As long as there wasn't 20m+ structures or buildings in the way, you hit.



I don't understand how breaking weapons that actually work how they are supposed to makes sense. The players could simply stop using broken weapons until they are fixed and get better results. You never nerf something because something else is broken. You simply fix the broken system.

Oh... you know then people would actually use NARC launchers in MWO?

Nerfing the damage of the most used weapons in the game until their ballistic counterparts are un****** would make perfect sense.

Edited by xRaeder, 18 March 2013 - 05:40 PM.

[Davers]

I am, on 18 March 2013 - 05:34 AM, said:

So did anyone ever take you up on this?

He was busy dropping with friends last night. But I will continue to attempt to team up with him.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Taemien, on 18 March 2013 - 04:18 PM, said:

This isn't true. The Narc in MW4 made it so that LRMs didn't even need LOS or a lock, you just fired in some random direction. As long as there wasn't 20m+ structures or buildings in the way, you hit.

ah, so in that game they actually WORKED? What a novel concept,

[Davers]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 18 March 2013 - 06:13 PM, said:

ah, so in that game they actually WORKED? What a novel concept,

With something so powerful, didn't all mechs run ECM back then?

Edited by Davers, 18 March 2013 - 06:28 PM.

[Skyfaller]

wolf74, on 17 March 2013 - 04:04 PM, said:

Tell me one other weapon that makes you hold a lock for 13sec to get a max range hit with it?

Exactly. Compared to loading 4 PPC's and melting their faces off at same said range.

I find it hilarious they claim its 'no skill' weapon. An LRM fired at max range with a spotter LOS is never going to hit unless the victim is ridiculously stupid and stays in the open. An LRM fired at medium range requires the same LOS as a PPC, takes longer to fly to target, warns them that its coming, can have its damage lowered by having an AMS on board AND takes longer to refire than a PPC.

I run stalkers as my main rides. 5s with 4 LRM15s with artemis is one setup (with 5 med lasers, 2 AMS and a TAG) and the other is a six PPC 3F. I kill more people with the PPC than with the LRM.

Why? Because I use the SAME exact tactics with both: I dont shoot long range unless i know its going to hit. You may not need to 'aim' with an LRM but you do need to take into account the mech's location, speed and proximity to cover to decide if to shoot or not. PPC you just aim and POW things die.

The other night I one-shotted three enemy mechs from 800m. They were crying foul and hack this and that... well hello?! They were in the open moving in a straight line to me.. with zoome module it was rather easy to headshot them all down.

So really, its has little to do with 'aiming' skill and a LOT to do with how to avoid getting shot. The old axiom holds true: The stupid die quick.

[Praehotec8]

What I do not understand is this: Why do people feel that weapons that weigh as much and take as much space (with explosive ammo to boot!) as LRMs should be weak or not be able to kill mechs? If someone is boating 4X LRM 15s with artemis, and 4 tons of ammo (which is barely enough for 4 LRM15s), the weight they add is 36 tons. A jenner weighs 35 tons total. If someone takes them, with all the drawbacks of having that many LRMs, they darn straight ought to be able to dish it out at long range.
LRMs right now are a weapon to be respected just like (most of) the others. It feels to me that weakening them too much would not harm the boats as much as those that take just a few for secondary or pure supporting usage (my A-1 carries 2X ALRM10s, and it isn't bringing down assaults in two shots by any means).

[M4rtyr]

Praehotec8, on 18 March 2013 - 07:21 PM, said:

What I do not understand is this: Why do people feel that weapons that weigh as much and take as much space (with explosive ammo to boot!) as LRMs should be weak or not be able to kill mechs?

LOL!!!

Maybe a shot in the dark, but I think is has something to do witht he fact that balistics are HEAVIER, take MORE space, but still do LESS damage... oh and they have explosive ammo too.

LRM-10: 2 Crits and 5 Tons, 18 damage. AND IDF capable.
AC-10: -7- Crits and -12- Tons, 10 damage and only in LOS.

All the rest are equally far apart.. More then twice as much space and weight required. Want to try that again perhaps?

[Davers]

Praehotec8, on 18 March 2013 - 07:21 PM, said:

What I do not understand is this: Why do people feel that weapons that weigh as much and take as much space (with explosive ammo to boot!) as LRMs should be weak or not be able to kill mechs? If someone is boating 4X LRM 15s with artemis, and 4 tons of ammo (which is barely enough for 4 LRM15s), the weight they add is 36 tons. A jenner weighs 35 tons total. If someone takes them, with all the drawbacks of having that many LRMs, they darn straight ought to be able to dish it out at long range.
LRMs right now are a weapon to be respected just like (most of) the others. It feels to me that weakening them too much would not harm the boats as much as those that take just a few for secondary or pure supporting usage (my A-1 carries 2X ALRM10s, and it isn't bringing down assaults in two shots by any means).

I would love to equip a Raven on my Awesome so I will have ECM.

Some people have the misconception that LRMs are only meant as support weapons and aren't supposed to be deadly, just sting a little.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Davers, on 18 March 2013 - 07:29 PM, said:

I would love to equip a Raven on my Awesome so I will have ECM.

Some people have the misconception that LRMs are only meant as support weapons and aren't supposed to be deadly, just sting a little.

yeah, the devs

[Forestal]

M4rtyr, on 18 March 2013 - 07:28 PM, said:

LOL!!!

Maybe a shot in the dark, but I think is has something to do witht he fact that balistics are HEAVIER, take MORE space, but still do LESS damage... oh and they have explosive ammo too.

LRM-10: 2 Crits and 5 Tons, 18 damage. AND IDF capable.
AC-10: -7- Crits and -12- Tons, 10 damage and only in LOS.

All the rest are equally far apart.. More then twice as much space and weight required. Want to try that again perhaps?

Yep, LRM triggers an instant "incoming missiles" warning, travels up to 10 seconds before impact, and can lose targeting or be avoided in any number of ways between the warning and the time of arrival.

Now YOU try that again with ballistics... and remember, "balance" does not mean "equal".


Okay x 2, I won't take credit for the time I hid behind some minimally low cover and kept exactly 200m away from my target so that I can lrm it to death in 10 seconds (yeah, I use lrms like they are srms!)-- that was just my target's lack of situational awareness, or my team-mate being a distraction/"tank", or something like that...

Edited by Forestal, 18 March 2013 - 09:22 PM.

[Corvus Antaka]

Ryvucz, on 17 March 2013 - 04:11 PM, said:

I can think of a different weapon that requires even less skill and has a much higher hit ratio.

you mean the 2 volley SRM6 catapult that strips my hunchie to a cored CT only in 1 shot, and kills me with the second volley?

[Darkrook]

I don't hate LRMS, i went out and made a LRM Boat

I don't hate LRMS, i went out and made a LRM Boat

[Kahoumono]

LRMs are fine as they are but just like any weapon it becomes too efficient when you stack a bunch of them. I doesn't make sense that a spread of missles can travel so tightly together anyways.

[Stanton Langley]

I drive a pretty stock CPLT-C1 with extra ammo. I find that the forum hate for LRMs is rather overstated--a skilled pilot with LRMs can be very effective, but a skilled pilot is effective in any viable build. I frequently take on STKs and LRM D-DCs and win the engagement despite a huge deficit in number of LRM tubes. The fact is, know how to counter each build is just as important as knowing how to play your own build. Rock, paper, scissors and all that.

[TehSBGX]

Davers, on 17 March 2013 - 04:23 PM, said:

It's not that half the mechs in the game shouldn't be used. It's just that slow mechs don't respond well when it comes to battlefield maneuvers.

QTF Try dodging in a 4X, that thing is as slow as molases.

Edited by TehSBGX, 18 March 2013 - 09:32 PM.

[Thoummim]

An LRM 20 has a max DPS of 7.58 weight 10tons
A gauss 3.75 weight 15 tons
An AC20 5 weight 14 tons.

The LRM20 has 9shot per ton with a potential of 324dmg per ton, the gauss 10shot for 150dmg and the AC20 7shot for 140dmg.

Cover is super effective, ECM too ? Yes, until the ennemy raven come TAG you, and 2different lrm boat launch enough missile to darken the sky, you'll stop one volley never both. Stay with the DDC ? so much fun...

Send a pack of raven kill them ? Well if they survive the ennemy team and the lrm rain of the other lrm boat.

Edited by Thoummim, 18 March 2013 - 09:40 PM.

[Taemien]

xRaeder, on 18 March 2013 - 05:39 PM, said:

Oh... you know then people would actually use NARC launchers in MWO?

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 18 March 2013 - 06:13 PM, said:

ah, so in that game they actually WORKED? What a novel concept,

There was a 34+ page whine thread about LRMs and Narcs in the MWLL forums about that since that is how it worked there too. Given that the community was much smaller in MWLL than it is here in MWO, its safe to say that if Narc worked like that here, these forums would explode much like they did when consumables were first announced.

xRaeder, on 18 March 2013 - 05:39 PM, said:

Nerfing the damage of the most used weapons in the game until their ballistic counterparts are un****** would make perfect sense.

Ok, you all are saying ballistic damage does nothing. So nerf all other weapons to do nothing too? So how are we supposed to damage each other?

I don't know how dense you could be to suggest something like that. A large laser does its listed damage. It works. Why would you want it to do less than that? All that needs to be fixed is AC20s doing 20 damage all the time. This is something that is probably coming in the next patch so I don't understand why you'd want to nerf weapons that currently work as intended.

You could just simply use the weapons that work currently instead of asking the Devs to break working aspects of the game. It is after all easier for you to remodify your mechs in the mech lab then it is for the devs recode the game 2-3 times. Once to break stuff, twice to bring it back, and then a third time to rebalance. Besides not everyone is having those issues, as it is latency based. Need proof? Go in the training grounds.

[Commander Kobold]

M4rtyr, on 18 March 2013 - 07:28 PM, said:

LOL!!!

Maybe a shot in the dark, but I think is has something to do witht he fact that balistics are HEAVIER, take MORE space, but still do LESS damage... oh and they have explosive ammo too.

LRM-10: 2 Crits and 5 Tons, 18 damage. AND IDF capable.
AC-10: -7- Crits and -12- Tons, 10 damage and only in LOS.

All the rest are equally far apart.. More then twice as much space and weight required. Want to try that again perhaps?

ACs are better than missles though, autocannons deal all of their damage to one pin point location, missles like to splash all over the other mech.