443 replies to this topic

[ArcDemon]

I don't own any Dragons, but from fighting them they seem like they have a role to play as a heavy flanker, but that huge nose is just so easy to hit on a mech that has already sacrificed armor for speed. It also seems to have trouble delivering an effective alpha strike an attribute I think is important on a speed oriented mech.

[LethalMezzle]

As someone who pilots a Dragon almost exclusively, I wouldn't say it's terrible. It has some disadvantages though.

Ultimately, the Dragon's role is a speedy, but reasonably durable skirmisher. But because you have to mount a pretty big engine to get those good speeds, you can't take a lot of firepower, which is where it is a bit underwhelming.

Centre Torso is also huge, but considering that the side torsos are relatively small, an XL engine is very viable. People keep shooting at my centre torso even though I'm using way more weapons than a Dragon ought to be able to mount. Still, a very large CT means that it can't stay in a brawl very long, and it's not as speedy as it should be.

Couple of the variants have pretty useless hardpoints too - two missile hardpoints in the CT is not worth squat if I can't fit anything larger than a single LRM 10 in there.

If they want to buff the Dragon, increase its maneuverability. Give it extra speed for any given engine it can mount, and give it really quick acceleration/deceleration; it's a speedy skirmisher, so make it one.

Edited by LethalMezzle, 19 March 2013 - 06:21 PM.

[Kageru Ikazuchi]

As a proud Dragon driver, I agree with everything you said except this:

LethalMezzle, on 19 March 2013 - 06:21 PM, said:

Couple of the variants have pretty useless hardpoints too - two missile hardpoints in the CT is not worth squat if I can't fit anything larger than a single LRM 10 in there.

My DRG-1N is the only mech I use that carries SRM-4s ... based on my stats over the past two weeks, they're worth an average of 100 points of damage per match. Is that worth the 6 tons of weight and 6 points of heat per shot? Depends on your playstyle, I guess.

What I love about the Dragon it that everything about it is a balancing game ... you really have to make every ton count, whether that ton is giving you an extra few points of damage, a few more seconds firing before you overheat, the ability to engage at long ranges, more durability, or a few more KPH and maneuverabiltiy.

Edited by Kageru Ikazuchi, 19 March 2013 - 06:41 PM.

[Das Wudone]

ive run against splatcats in my dragons and i am able to fight them off at range. i have beaten a lot of them cos of my speed and my accurate weapons. the thing with srms is they cannot do much damage past 180m. in the case of a CN9-A vs any dragon, it will pretty much be a drawn out match. the dragon can match it at range for a bit until the cent closes in. if the dragon pilot is smart enough he would aim for the LT so when the cent gets within effective srm range it would be weakened quite a bit enough for the dragon to finish off most of its firepower. at least thats what i would do anyway.

sure ppl nowadays like a lot of firepower in their mediums (especially missile firepower) and the dragon lacks that. but as ive said a few pages back, the dragon isnt really meant for superior firepower. its meant to bring a balanced loadout, but almost all those weapons are accurate pinpoint weapons while retaining a speed comparable to the fast mediums. if u guys dont believe u could get that much firepower in a dragon i can give u the builds that i roll in as an example:

DRG-1C
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...0a2c878cefcda61 <-current best
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...eb2aa070cfd8bcd
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...8af03f2433f53b8 <- fastest
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...d86ab76378f9eb8 <-mobile sniper

DRG-1N
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...c83445d5b6df50f <-can swap srms for ssrms & make it faster
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...6a92810a49eb082 <-current best
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...74a11fdd2abd6d2
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...2f2cce601ea1811 <-more punch than above

DRG-FLAME
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...cc8252abbc2cb4b <-current best. heatsinks in the arms to prevent/soak up early critting of lasers when armor is gone.
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...fbe5b80138eec60
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...ad0aef1369996c1
then the rest of the FLAME builds can follow the 1C builds above.

now if u noticed a lot of my builds are at 40 firepower. that is actually on par with most STD engined CTFs altho ofc it cant compete in dps (cos CTFs can bring a lot of ballistic firepower or DAKKA as most would call it). but unlike CTFs its a lot faster and therefore harder to kill. i find that CTFs get their firepower blown off easily cos of their lack of speed and oversized sections. not to mention dragons have amazing arm twist that the CTFs dont have. ok maybe im too biased against CTFs but i do believe they still have a place on the field which DRGs cant compete on. but i wont go into that now cos im discussing DRGs.

another thing i failed to mention in an earlier post was dragons are also good distractions just like light mechs. a tactic that i often use with teammates is i flank the enemy from behind, alpha the rear section and then running in front of their FOV gaining the targets attention. while im playing decoy, my usually slower but heavy hitting teammate positions itself on the targets weak rear and then proceeds to eliminate him. more than likely the target wouldnt turn immediately but if he does i can hit his rear once he turns often killing him swiftly no matter what mech class it is.

i do have to agree that its not an easy mode mech. cents are easy to pilot as long as u know how to torso twist, trebs can JJ in and out of battle often using it too as an evasive manuever in a brawl, cats have ridiculous firepower, CTFs have incredible dps, etc. it does take skill to run one. what u also need is proper situational awarenes and if possible its better if u run with a teammate.

[Lightfoot]

few or no torso weapons

[Kanton]

The Dragon is perfect. It's all the other mechs that are suffering from terrible imbalances and poor game design.

Think about it.

[IraqiWalker]

Mister Blastman, on 19 March 2013 - 08:08 AM, said:

When PGI puts in melee combat... I'll be a really happy Dragon pilot. *looks at claw*

You and every Centurion Pilot with their hatchets.

[Noobzorz]

I own a 1N, a 5N, and a 1C. It was drastically cheaper to arrive at a build I like using my DDC, even accounting for the mech costs, which is ******* insanity (seriously, you basically must have an XL to use these suckers).

Anyway, I've also had some amazing successes in a dragon, but once I master them (as in unlock master tier stuff), I will be moving on for a while.

Edit: I wish they could change the design to hide the cockpit so that the dragon's T-Rex look was emphasized over its "I'm a fat dork with a giant potbelly CT." Clearly the aesthetic was meant to look like some sort of saurian creature with the CT as the head, but once I noticed the cockpit, that was all over.

Edited by Noobzorz, 19 March 2013 - 08:49 PM.

[Sol Fin]

Allister Rathe, on 18 March 2013 - 11:07 AM, said:

Chances are against an A1 with SRM's, a Phract with a pair of Gauss or a couple of boated UAC/5's you'd be in trouble against a pilot of equal skill, but the advantage of the Dragon is being agile, decently armored, and with enough weapons that you can be mobile support for your team and not a one man army like many people attempt to play.

Well that's the problem. You're mentioning "team", but the fact is that actual teams do NOT use dragons. Which it turn means that Dragon is a bad team support mech. At least now, with current balance, maps etc. So basically a mech that often call flanker or fire-support (both words suggest a team play to get the most effect) cannot flank or support in a team fight. I think that's the big issue with a dragon

[HammerSwarm]

I do best in my dragons while not being shot, and I can eat large mechs up. I usually run some variation of

5n http://mwo.smurfy-ne...e91c2a531c579e3
Flame http://mwo.smurfy-ne...6dfea5cf986e267
Fang http://mwo.smurfy-ne...bad5f40cb5f7606

Using the speed to out maneuver heavier mechs is fun while being in a dog fight with lighter mechs is exhilarating. That said having piloted many centurions into battle I can say that for 10 fewer tons you don't lost 1/6 of a dragon's ability. I'd like to see it improved with a torso twist buff, and a turning radius decrease.

[Mavairo]

Serapth, on 19 March 2013 - 12:11 PM, said:

Whats the speed with a 320XL + speedtweak. I always run a 350, generally with 4xLL. With the new desert map, it might be worth it to drop to 320 and add more heat sinks.

95kph after speed tweak.

[Sol Fin]

HammerSwarm, on 20 March 2013 - 06:55 AM, said:

I do best in my dragons while not being shot, and I can eat large mechs up. I usually run some variation of

5n http://mwo.smurfy-ne...e91c2a531c579e3

You can through DHS into engine - then you can upgrade to FF. And will have 1 free ton and some additional armor. Or just an AMS installed.

[Das Wudone]

Sol Fin, on 20 March 2013 - 12:36 AM, said:

Well that's the problem. You're mentioning "team", but the fact is that actual teams do NOT use dragons. Which it turn means that Dragon is a bad team support mech. At least now, with current balance, maps etc. So basically a mech that often call flanker or fire-support (both words suggest a team play to get the most effect) cannot flank or support in a team fight. I think that's the big issue with a dragon

i think its the issue of players not playing it that way not the fault of the mech itself. most new dragon pilots rush into the frontlines and get slaughtered there. or they go solo brawling with that huge CT hitbox and get beaten by something smaller than it cos all the shots easily get focused on that huge belly....

ive been using it as a flanker like i said to great success. i usually go for LRM boats too and once thats suppressed the team gets the win. now if ur lone wolfing its kinda 50/50 chance of success when u go flanking cos u cant coordinate with ur team of pugs as fast as u could with a team on comms and the pugs sometimes get ecmed or worse dont listen.

[Sol Fin]

Das Wudone, on 20 March 2013 - 06:39 PM, said:

ive been using it as a flanker like i said to great success. i usually go for LRM boats too and once thats suppressed the team gets the win. now if ur lone wolfing its kinda 50/50 chance of success when u go flanking cos u cant coordinate with ur team of pugs as fast as u could with a team on comms and the pugs sometimes get ecmed or worse dont listen.

Sorry, but don't you see that controversy of your words? You say that there's no team coordination in PUGs - that's why only 50/50 chance of success of flanking dragon. But current truth of actual teamplay - not to use dragons at all. So basically any meaningful teamplay under current MWO state actually removes the ability for a dragon to "flank" or "support".

I would love if MWO was in a state when dragon had it's role viable in both PUGs and teamplay since it's the only mech I've mastered so far, but atm it's not possible.

Edited by Sol Fin, 21 March 2013 - 01:07 AM.

[Velliann]

armyof1, on 19 March 2013 - 07:45 AM, said:

I really disagree with SRMS being wrong for the Dragon, that's the only reason I still keep the 1N, because of the 2xSRM4 you can fit on it hits harder and more focused than an SRM6. It does take an area where there is a decent amount of cover to run between to be really effective with SRMS, but to come across a slower mech in upper River City with my SRM-fitted Dragon is about as good as it gets when I run between the buildings dumping missiles and AC10 shots at them and get behind cover before they can shoot me back.

I thought the same when I fitted my first dragons : "Ok the missile slots is for Srms, at least i can alpha a bit"
What i've learned with the way i play Dragons (360XL) is that if my Srms can hit, the opponent Srms does too, and again a Dragon face to face can't stand even against some mediums. I have come to feel that it's much more fun to stay rounding at 300 to a Splashcat hammering him with LRM and medium laser than to try to run in his back to unload a shot wich won't be efficient enought to be sure that the opponent won't retaliate, you don't want to be retaliated at close range.

The only Dragon imho wich can go SRMs is the 1N but i've sold my 1N cause it makes me fell like listening to poor mainstream musics : designed to please everyone but listened only by those who don't like music. Every other Dragons have something really special, the 1N is polyvalent but lack of taste.

[Das Wudone]

Sol Fin, on 21 March 2013 - 01:06 AM, said:

Sorry, but don't you see that controversy of your words? You say that there's no team coordination in PUGs - that's why only 50/50 chance of success of flanking dragon. But current truth of actual teamplay - not to use dragons at all. So basically any meaningful teamplay under current MWO state actually removes the ability for a dragon to "flank" or "support".

I would love if MWO was in a state when dragon had it's role viable in both PUGs and teamplay since it's the only mech I've mastered so far, but atm it's not possible.

other mechs have more or less the same chances as the dragon. ur chances improve when ur in a well organized team of pugs or on comms. if u ninja flank in a splatcat for example u may be able to kill mech after mech and still escape when ur discovered. but when ur facing an organized team (pugs or on comms) after u ninja flank 1 mech they immediately turn to focus on u cos ur a threat to their artillery. thats what i meant by 50/50.

again its the same for any kind of mech but the difference in fast mechs like the dragon is that its faster than most heavies which means it can alpha in and retreat quickly then repeat the process if ever. sure u can do it on a light mech too but dragons have more firepower than light mechs and more armor than lights/meds when things get hairy during a retreat. if u flank in a phract or cat its harder for them to retreat back cos they're a lot slower. cents/hunchies can do flanking too but they have lesser armor.

and to clarify i didnt specify that theres no coordination in pugs. i stated that its harder to communicate with just typing to pugs what to do in the heat of battle than it is when ur talking in comms with an organized team. technically pugs half of the time are not organized, get ecmed (or ur being ecmed), occasionally they dont listen or are not aware of the current situation. no matter what mech u bring when u flank its going to be like that a long as ur pugging. any mech itself is not at fault for whatever shortcomings that arises should things get sour. its the players and will always be the players actions that affect the outcome of any match. if ur in a spider, flanked the enemy from behind, distracting 3 of them for a good 4 min, making easy 5 kills for ur team then u did an awesome job.

[Tekadept]

I Don't see how the dragons are terrible myself personally, the 5N is my favorite

[Ialdabaoth]

Simplest fix to the Dragon:

*Remove the 1N's 'main gun' arm's lower arm actuator, so it can mount an AC20. (Put a Hand actuator into the other arm while you're at it, so it matches art)
*Increase the max engine size to 390.

This would give us an excellent "fast brawler" design.

Edited by Ialdabaoth, 24 March 2013 - 02:00 PM.

[Zolaz]

LordBraxton, on 18 March 2013 - 09:15 AM, said:

HUGE center torso wasnt as big of a deal but recent fixes to hit detection make them get cored mad easily

also, even though dragons move fast they usually carry about as much firepower as a medium and die even faster

that being said I still love the dragon and make it work well in PUG games, but taking it in an 8v8 handicaps my team

What was Einstein's definition of insanity?

[Corvus Antaka]

cause it cant knock stuff down anymore, it has no ECM, it doesnt boat well
(bad when c6 is the primary gamemode) and its low tonnage for its class and suffers from matchmaker problems due to this.

There was a time in closed beta before ECM when every mech was good.

maybe PPCS need more heat again...