443 replies to this topic

[Deathlike]

ParasiteX, on 25 March 2013 - 07:50 AM, said:

Hope this will shut everyone up about the Dragon being terrible. Currently on the heavy tournament the 2 top players are Dragon pilots.
In fact. Dragon players hold 5 spots in the top 15 position. More than the rest of the heavy classes.

They are still terrible in competitive play.

It just happened that in doing any analysis of the heavies that the Dragon actually got overlooked, and actually happen to be optimal for the use of the tourney. They are the "overweight" medium.

It doesn't mean Dragons suck; they are simply not used in any serious play that some other mech could do better.

Edited by Deathlike, 25 March 2013 - 11:31 AM.

[cpt kennedy]

With the recent sale I picked up a flame, i had seen a youtube vid of some guy being rather successful with one so figured, meh: MUST FARM MOAR CBILLZ! It took 10 matches to get used to it and a few more and some help to find a good loadout for it, and now i am working on leveling 2 other basic varients because I enjoyed it so much and want to use it more often.

I cant really quantify why i like this mech so much, but I have had a lot of success in both 4mans, 8man and pug drops. The dragon plays a rather unique role since it generally has lowish firepower, highish speed, and low armor for a heavy, but enough to win toe to toe with a medium. I have also found the extrememly responsive arms to be great for precision weapons fire. until I piloted a dragon i would have considered 4 mediums + lb 10x + srm6 to be a rather weak build. less than 40 firepower and little range doesent seem like a powerhouse. But when you can hit the same panal consecutive times with ease, out-turn many other mechs and have enough armor to make a mistake and still escape the dragon is very interesting. I've even found fun builds with the 1N and ?C varients that i had originally just gotten to max out my flame.

the dragon is a heavy that plays like a medium that plays like a light. It does not have a unique or exclusinve role on the battlefield but stikes a great balance for players like me who are only moderatly skileld with aiming but enjoy being able to score wht hits they can and **** before the enemy can respond.

[Korlandril]

This whole '' its not useful in competitive play'' thing just doesnt seem accurate. Its a really effective chassis actually. Sure it isnt easy to pilot like a splat cat, dual ac/jagermechs, or stalker lrm/PPC boats. You actually need to learn how to use them. And thats somthing I dont think a lot of people do when it comes to mechs. People find the easiest and most simple way to be effective, and just go with that.

You see the stalkers overheating everytime, becasue they alpha every shot. Or the LRM's boats getting taken out by lights, who then scream lights are OP. And then the catapult cheese build pilots whining that there cheese got cut .

But you dont hear about the dragon pilots...or the jenner pilots Or even the odd Awesome pilots. There two busy out there, playing the game, and learning to wipe out the cheese/competitive play mechs. ever watched a smaller team, of lights an mediums, completely smoke a larger team? Weapons dont do damage if you cant hit with them. and one medium laser firing , and constantly hitting, will do a lot more damage, than any other weapon, that is always missing due to lack of skill.

What is better. a 40 alpha that can consistenly fire, and hit a target accuratly..or a 70 alpha that is going to miss and overheat the mech? A mech that is probably to slow and sluggish to deal with a faster machine.

That is just how I look at the dragon. It is fast, with the armour to get out of hotspots when it needs to. the Ideal dragon doesnt have many heat problems, and can keep up a blistering rate of fire, while running circles around an enemy. Or it can flank, and do it fast, and do a lot more damage than most people would think,

I think the dragon is a little secret powerhouse a few people have figured out, and are starting to use it in a very ruinous fashion

[Vassago Rain]

Korlandril, on 30 March 2013 - 11:24 AM, said:

This whole '' its not useful in competitive play'' thing just doesnt seem accurate. Its a really effective chassis actually. Sure it isnt easy to pilot like a splat cat, dual ac/jagermechs, or stalker lrm/PPC boats. You actually need to learn how to use them. And thats somthing I dont think a lot of people do when it comes to mechs. People find the easiest and most simple way to be effective, and just go with that.

You see the stalkers overheating everytime, becasue they alpha every shot. Or the LRM's boats getting taken out by lights, who then scream lights are OP. And then the catapult cheese build pilots whining that there cheese got cut .

But you dont hear about the dragon pilots...or the jenner pilots Or even the odd Awesome pilots. There two busy out there, playing the game, and learning to wipe out the cheese/competitive play mechs. ever watched a smaller team, of lights an mediums, completely smoke a larger team? Weapons dont do damage if you cant hit with them. and one medium laser firing , and constantly hitting, will do a lot more damage, than any other weapon, that is always missing due to lack of skill.

What is better. a 40 alpha that can consistenly fire, and hit a target accuratly..or a 70 alpha that is going to miss and overheat the mech? A mech that is probably to slow and sluggish to deal with a faster machine.

That is just how I look at the dragon. It is fast, with the armour to get out of hotspots when it needs to. the Ideal dragon doesnt have many heat problems, and can keep up a blistering rate of fire, while running circles around an enemy. Or it can flank, and do it fast, and do a lot more damage than most people would think,

I think the dragon is a little secret powerhouse a few people have figured out, and are starting to use it in a very ruinous fashion

I think you'll find that the dragon's lack of popularity is all the proof you need as to whether it's 'fine' or not. Jenners are directly tied to ravens. When the raven is strong, the jenner is weak, but you'll find them both out there.

Dragons? Oh my, I haven't seen those in forever. Maybe it's my elo standing that makes it so? But then there'd still be something wrong, if it only works down low.

[MustrumRidcully]

Vassago Rain, on 30 March 2013 - 11:41 AM, said:

I think you'll find that the dragon's lack of popularity is all the proof you need as to whether it's 'fine' or not. Jenners are directly tied to ravens. When the raven is strong, the jenner is weak, but you'll find them both out there.

Dragons? Oh my, I haven't seen those in forever. Maybe it's my elo standing that makes it so? But then there'd still be something wrong, if it only works down low.

Maybe you are at low ELO rankings! And so is everyone in those RHOD tournaments.

Because we all know good pilots make Dragons just work.

Mustrum "I hope I don't need to add sarcasm tags to this post" Ridcully

[Bogus]

Dragon will be more useful when a) maps are bigger and favor speed and the MM has consideration for what sort of mechs make up a given team.

That being said, dragon is still weak compared to stuff like hunchie and cat because it can't bank/boat weapons. Nearly all of the good builds are built around 3+ of some weapon type and unless you mess with arm-lock none of the standard Dragons can do this. It's a great example of why tabletop rules do not translate to a FPS--packing a hodgepodge collection of individual weapons just isn't nearly as effective as specializing at a particular range.

[Sephlock]

Part of the problem is that doubled armor and internals means that the dragon has a hard time being the fast flanker- even if things go well, he'll get maybe 1 or 2 ineffective alpha strikes before the entire enemy team turns around and vaporizes him.

If he's lucky, MAYBE he'll run into an incompetent enemy light, and:

[Adridos]

Dragons can be really effective, but they are hardly a safe choice. And they are quite expensive.

Thus new players don't paly them and neither those playing for sure wins.


What remains is people who simply like the Dragon and know how to pilot one really well.

[Sam Slade]

The Flame Hero Mech is a death machine... AC20 and 4 ML... with full armor and a 300 rated engine.  Fear it, it'll kill you with 2 shots to the back.

Edited by Sam Slade, 31 March 2013 - 10:52 AM.

[GizmoGecko]

You shouldn't be making posts Artgathan, you should be looking at the builds for the Dragon posted by the community in the forums.

When you ride it, just don't play like a brawler? Simples? PLAY SAFE! I honestly don't see anything wrong with it when I ride in mine (first 'mechs ever bought, and my favourite and most comfortable 'mechs to ride, with the 1N closely followed by the Flame). I'd hate for this post to be noticed by the developers because if they buffed it, I'd start to feel like I was cheating a bit (obviously it wouldn't technically be cheating).

When you can make builds going over 100kph with an average alpha of around 40, and just generally improve as a pilot with torso twisting and situational awareness, you'll be fine.

Also a little build tip: 2 SRM4's in the centre torso will cure you of your light worries and a medium pulse or two if you're still a victim to 3L's and general streak lights.

PS. Sam Slade above can evidently help you significantly.

Edited by GizmoGecko, 31 March 2013 - 11:45 AM.

[Wiggen]

Cyclonite, on 18 March 2013 - 09:46 AM, said:

Arm mounted ballistics are terrible...

I just have to disagree with this point. Hitting a Commando/Jenner/Spider in full circle strafe with a dual AC/20 Jager and watching it cartwheel off into oblivion has become a frequent and favorite hobby.

[Irvine]

My flame is easily my most frustrating mech. It has hot and cold streaks all the time, but these are 100% attributed to PEBKAC!

The thing is it is also very dangerous when we get a hot hand.

[Adridos]

Wiggen, on 31 March 2013 - 11:47 AM, said:

I just have to disagree with this point. Hitting a Commando/Jenner/Spider in full circle strafe with a dual AC/20 Jager and watching it cartwheel off into oblivion has become a frequent and favorite hobby.

He'đ talking about arm mounted ballistics, not shoulder mounted one hit, no scope, pin-point, OMGWTF U R DEAD machines.

[Mike Getsome]

Dragons are awesome.
l2p.

[Violent Tendencies]

Give dragon ECM and lets call it good, eh?

[Ol Dirty Bastard]

Dragons were the second mech variant I choose to pilot. Being a heavy mech fan, I have mastered all of the heavy mechs availible and know well the pros and cons of each chassis/lvariant. After pushing the Dragon aside for the Cataphract, back to the Catapult, and a quick stroll through the Jagermechs I have fallen back in love with my Dragon. For competition the Ultraphract, Poptart 3D, Jagerbomb, or Splatcat are much more powerful mechs. They all fill specific roles, and deal a lot of damage in the hands of good pilots. There is no doubt about thier utility and proven record even in pug matches. However I was not satisfied with most of these mechs, none provided me with the right balance of speed, manuverability, firepower, and armor that I was looking for. Sure I blew lots of people away in a splatcat, and can continue to do so after the missile nerf. It was close to what I desired, but it wasn't versitile enough, all short range and nothing else. I was still in search of MY mech, and I found it in the FLAME. I found the XL360 with Guass and 4 ML to be a perfect fit for what I was looking for. I have the speed to out run and out manuver anything that can out gun me, and I can keep up with lights long enough to punish them unmercilessly. I used to fear Easy Cheese 3L ravens, but now I laugh when i see them assuming that they will easily overcome an out of place dragon. They quickly find that a pilot that can actually hit them with a guass and 4 medium lasers is something to be afraid of. I now rule the flanks in my flame, and do not fear a pack of easy cheese ravens, as i can quickly kill them in succession. The top tier heavy mechs I pick apart easily, as most cannot keep up with me, and I simply pick apart side torsos until their XL engines pop. Most mediums can barely keep up with me, and the only ones that present a problem are zombie centurions. However they are only a problem, most cant manuver fast enough to hit me with any accuracy, while I plink away at them with my guass. Assault mechs are childs play, I have not met one that was much of an obstacle for me, as I can simply chip away armor with ease, while they attempt to hit me moving in and out of cover. They quickly find themselves opened up and taking internal damage, before they have my armor even close to turning orange.

For those who say the speed of the dragon is not able to be utilized because the maps are too small, you are simply inept a high speed manuvering. River city is one of the best maps to use this mech, as it can quickly speed through narrow alleys, flanking enemies, hitting fast and then dissapearing before ever taking damage. Mix them with your lights and mediums, and just keep the speed up, and it will pick apart the current kings of the heavy class.

[Sagamore]

I want to like the Dragon. I bought a Flame on sale and have tried several builds but none are working for me yet. The only other mechs I have are 3 Atlases and 3 Commandos.

I'll try out the Gauss and 4 ML I think...

Edit: Just dropped 6 million CBills for the new engine. Here goes nothing

Edit 2: Played 2 games in a row with Flame, 2 wins... went 2 kills 1 assist then 2 kills 3 assists with between 400-500 damage. Cool!

Edited by Sagamore, 31 March 2013 - 04:40 PM.

[Cest7]

It needs speed to survive, but building it for speed leaves you with no tonnage for weapons/armour.

Putting BFGs on it makes it a sitting duck.

[Noobzorz]

Deathlike, on 25 March 2013 - 11:31 AM, said:

They are still terrible in competitive play.

It just happened that in doing any analysis of the heavies that the Dragon actually got overlooked, and actually happen to be optimal for the use of the tourney. They are the "overweight" medium.

It doesn't mean Dragons suck; they are simply not used in any serious play that some other mech could do better.

I believe that this is because when handled properly, the 3xAC/2 DRG-5N can be a pretty ferocious pugstar. It was my first mech, and I tried the (honestly pretty ******) ML/Gauss build that some people talk about, then someone suggested I just build a big ol artillery battery on legs. XL 300, max armor, 3AC/2, 2 medlas. Packs a mean, mean punch. I laugh when I catch another DRG out by itself at kappa, because it is impossible to miss the CT, so it is autokilled. Just today I had a 3/3/748 kill/assist/damage match in it.

The other variants are trash, do nothing a CTF cannot do far better (I have no experience piloting Fang or Flame, but I notice that both tend to go down pretty easily).

http://i.imgur.com/QSDTlXN.jpg

Edited by Noobzorz, 31 March 2013 - 05:10 PM.

[Sagamore]

I thought I'd share my success story with the Dragon so far. Maybe not a competitive pick but I'm liking the run and gun style. Feels like my Death's Knell sometimes but with a Gauss rifle. I've been loving the Flame now with the 4 Mlas and Gauss. The advantage with the Flame over other variants is that Gauss can be mounted in the torso. Just went 3 kills and 777 damage (top score) on a match where my radar bugged out so I was fighting pretty much blind! I think that my Elo is in the gutter though from losing 5 matches in a row to begin with on the Dragon.

I just bought my second Dragon, the 5N based on the above comments by Noobzorz.